Base Key Steve Question

[Tllmbrg]

I see, tho what about being in the nether with no ill effects?

 

[Buttersamuri]

Direct contact with the lava does kill him after a bit, but not when holding it through a bucket, which still would conduct the heat.

 

[AKM sama]

We don't know what the bucket is made of, so we can't conclude how much, if any, heat it conducts.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

While I am against Steve getting fire resistance, we do know that the bucket is made from iron, since that's the crafting recipe.

 

[Buttersamuri]

We make it out of iron. That's how the bucket is crafted. So we certainly do know what it's made of

The nether point is also another good point of heat resistance. Water almost vaporizes instantly in the better due rn the heat, and fire will literally never go out.

 

[AKM sama]

If that's the case, the Iron should melt too. Clearly the heat produced is inconsistent. But again, this isn't resistance.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Not inconsistent. Just that the Iron can hold lava in it. That just says something about the iron, as any iron in this world can do this. And as metal, it still would conduct heat.

Plus, that doesn't stop the nether point. The nether is hot enough that water can't exist there. Which is consistent in the world. Fires never go out, you can't bring water into there as it will vaporize almost instantly, and he can literally punch balls of Fire or creatures made of fire.

 

[Nemo212]

Oh my god. We're doing this? We're doing the Nether heat?

Tllmbrg, I'm sorry, but I'm crashing this thread. With no survivors.

The Nether heat "feat" is absolutely terrible and should never have been accepted. It's an obvious game mechanic implemented to stop you from cooling off all the lava and removing all the danger there. Not only that, but it's a massive outlier.




Anti-feats

• Water
  • Water inside of a cauldron doesn't evaporate in the Nether.
  • Water that's inside of bottles doesn't evaporate in the Nether.
  • Water that's inside of a bucket doesn't evaporate in the Nether.
• Plants
  • Leaves do not ignite into flame in the Nether.
  • Grass does not ignite into flame in the Nether.
  • Flowers do not ignite into flame in the Nether.
  • Dry bushes do not ignite into flame in the Nether, despite the fact that they are arguably more flammable than any other plant in this section.
  • Plants that don't need moisture to grow, like cacti, trees, vines, bamboo, grass, and cocoa beans, all grow unimpeded and do not ignite into flame.
  • Others that do, such as melons, sugarcane, and pumpkins, can still be placed down and won't ignite into flame.
  • Brown and red mushrooms (yes, they're a fungus, not a plant, I know) grow naturally in the Nether, and do not ignite into flame.
• Snow and ice
  • Snow blocks do not melt in the Nether.
    • Neither does sheets of snow.
  • Snowballs do not melt when thrown in the Nether.
  • Ice blocks do not melt in the Nether.
  • Packed ice blocks do not melt in the Nether.
  • Blue ice blocks do not melt in the Nether.
  • Snow Golems do take fire damage in the Nether, yes, but they'll also take it in badlands and deserts. I bring this up as an anti-feat because they all have the exact same temperature value, indicating that the Nether is no hotter than either of them.
    • They'll actually take damage in any "dry/warm" biome, which includes Savannas, which should be far milder than any of the above biomes.
    • They also don't melt when they're near lava or fire, despite the fact that other "cold" blocks (snow, ice, etcetera) melt near lava and fire as well. Due to this, the implication is that it's not necessarily heat doing them in, but more dryness than anything.
• Mobs
  • Most mobs take damage from fire. None of them, bar the Snow Golem (which has already been shown to take damage from even mild heat and dryness), take any damage from being in the Nether, which the calc implies should be far hotter than fire.
    • In fact, hoglins and piglins aren't naturally immune to fire and lava damage. They too will take damage when set on fire. But they don't die in the Nether.

 

[AKM sama]

"Not inconsistent. Just that the Iron can hold lava in it. That just says something about the iron, as any iron in this world can do this."

No, the iron melts after a little while, just like a human body. And Nemo brings up some very good points. I think we should close the thread.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Well I suppose if none of my points hold any merit to them so be it

Nemo212 why you gotta be like that?

 

[Antvasima]

So should we close this then?

 

[Davidgumazon]

I'd like to point out that Steve base could survive Soul Fire which dealt soul damage and heat damage on Steve so Steve have limited soul resistance or Regenerationn from soul damage or maybe both? I dunno how to classify that ability.

(Soul Fire can't melt Snow unlike Normal Fire, but Soul Fire dealt double the damage, more than the Normal Fire does on the Steve. So it's soul damage)

Also Blue Ice Blocks don't melt in the Nether which is more intended physics in Minecraft since Basalt Generator, so that Lava can produce Infinite Cobblestone via Water via molecular reaction rather than the temperature, while Lava can produce Infinite Basalt via Blue Ice via molecular reaction rather than the temperature, so the molecular reaction which explains why Lava Source turn into Obsidian rather than Cobblestone or Basalt, also the fact that Infinite Water is canon in Minecraft so definitely Lava flow production is infinite via Lava Source is canon.

 

[Davidgumazon]

@Nemo212 Nether Heat is NOT game mechanic, why?

Fire blocks is obviously the inconsistent here than the Nether Heat, why?

When I said "Fire blocks"
Fire, Air, and etc. are identified by the game as Blocks. This is Minecraft physics. People thought Blocks are always solid and liquid? Wrong! This also includes gases. When you see an Entities such as mobs or players or arrow projectiles are on fire, it's known as particles, not blocks.

Fire can be created by Flint and Steel. Fire is made by Blazes. Now you got the gist of it?

Nether Heat extinguished the Water while Water extinguished the Fire. See, how inconsistency right here?

Therefore the Fire damage doesn't provide exact scaling. Nether Heat proves is superior to Normal Fire in-game sense, though Fire is more inconsistent than Nether Heat in realistic Minecraft. Besides, the Nether's Soul Sand Valley filled with Soul Fire, Soul Fire have higher the damage than Normal Fire, but it doesn't necessarily meant Soul Fire is related to Nether Heat since Soul Fire never melt Snow which is unlike the Normal Fire could do. Nether Heat was never a bug nor game mechanic just like Exploding Beds in the Nether since Mojang developers themselves said they wouldn't remove Exploding Beds (Source: Also I've heard that the Minecraft Bed Exploding in the Nether is confirmed canon (it never be a gamemechanic to begin with)) and Mojang even update its block interaction feature a bit when Wet Sponge was turn into Sponge so it evaporate the Water inside the Sponge.

So how is this game mechanics?

With Real Life Minecraft logic? *laughs* it's all about Minecraft physics and it's not always Minecraft in Real Life, lol.

@Nemo212 I'm a survivor of your anti-feat.

For the certain list of Plants and Snow and Ice anti-feat: Just because many blocks doesn't follow Nether Heat physics it doesn't mean they're anti-feat to Nether Heat. In fact these blocks doesn't interact or doesn't follow Nether Heat physics, because they just don't, it's because Minecraft physics, also Blue Ice and Sponge proves they interacted with the Nether's Heat unlike those blocks don't give a crap about physics of gravity and temperature. This logic is the same to holding items. For that, these anti-feat is redundant.

- Cauldron was created for the purpose of storing water. This makes sense for: Water that's inside of a bucket doesn't evaporate in the Nether. Water inside of a cauldron doesn't evaporate in the Nether.

- Splash Water Bottle was created for the purpose of damaging Enderman and Blaze. This makes sense for: Water that's inside of bottles doesn't evaporate in the Nether.

For the certain list of Snow and Ice anti-feat: Held items never interact with environment at all. This is because Minecraft physics, it's intented to work like that, otherwise if you took it literally as game mechanics, then you're contradicting the point of Minecraft with Real Life logic argument, when bringing those real physics into the Game which is not necessarily always true and consistent.

- Snowballs was also created for damaging the Blazes. Built a Snow Golem in the Nether and buff it with Fire splash potion. Projectiles aren't affected by Status Effects which meant Snow Golem doesn't threw snowballs with fire potion effect. This makes sense for: Snowballs do not melt when thrown in the Nether. Snow blocks do not melt in the Nether. Neither does sheets of snow. And Snow Blocks.

Armor interacts with certain environment. Held Items? If it follows physics this destroy the game's reputation. People don't like the game to be even more realistic than what normally is within the game, the majority matters which the same logic as Torch burns forever is canon (even Notch said because it would destroy the creativity of the game). Though the Netherite is the first item that never interacts with fire-based blocks which means it's highly likely the gameplay is intended to be like that.

 

[Nemo212]

No, soul fire doesn't deal "soul damage." Simply drinking a potion of fire resistance is enough to negate any damage dealt, indicating that it is heat alone. The reason for the increased damage is a reference to how blue fire is hotter than orange fire in real life.

Thank you for inadvertently proving my point by saying packed ice not melting was supposed to be an intended feature of Minecraft. Now we know that the developers deliberately programmed it so it doesn't melt in the Nether, and this isn't some fluke. Maybe I'll add that to my previous post.

There's no such thing as an infinite lava source. Not even sure what point you were trying to make there, but whatever it was, it's moot.

You're forgetting that in addition to being a warm biome, the Nether is also incredibly dry, moreso than deserts, badlands, or any overworld biome. Those are the two factors that cause the sponge to lose water. If the heat in the Nether was as hot as the previous calc implied, the sponge would not only dry up, but shrivel up and die immediately.

What the hell is "I'm a survivor of your anti-feat" supposed to mean? Don't tell me, actually. Not sure I even want to know.

We assume that Minecraft follows real-world physics for the most part for the purposes of calcs. I can't just say "W-well, Dragon Ball doesn't make any sense and ki isn't real, so you can't apply the laws of physics to that series at all!" Minecraft is inconsistent, but so is nearly every other verse on this site. We work with what we have.

I don't care about the trivia and facts, it's irrelevant to the discussion.

You have yet to successfully debunk a single point I've made.

Should I just make a CRT for this instead of hijacking this p╠Âo╠Âo╠Âr╠ incredibly wealthy and affluent thread?

 

[AKM sama]

Yes you can't say it does not follow real world physics as an excuse for anti-feats and then use the same physics to say he should be resistant to heat.

@Nemo This thread was only made to grant him resistance to heat, which seems to be rejected. So I should close this thread, and if you want, you can make another one to tackle other problems.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Oi why you calling this thread poor?

Also nah you can continue since this's relavant for Steve's heat resistance

 

[Nemo212]

My apologies, Tllmbrg. I've retracted my statement.

I'm neutral on closing the thread. Up to you guys.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Now that's better (I need to learn how to do the line thing)

Also if the nether heat argument has finished then sure it can get closed, if not then no

 

[Nemo212]

Oh, the line thing. If you go into your post and click source mode editing (it's the square brackets next to the eye next to the bold icon), then make two pairs of equal signs around whatever you want to be the title, it should come out like this:

Sample text

 

[Joaco0902]

I believe that Steve should have heat resistance.

The Nether feat is bull, ain't gonna deny that, but no human would survive being in a pool of burning lava. If you enter a pool of lava, your skin would melt and you would die in seconds. Steve falls into a lava pit, stays there for a few seconds, gets out, takes a bit of damage, and goes on with his day.

The lava not melting the iron bucket is game mechanics, I believe. Imagine how annoying that mechanic would be.

 

[Nemo212]

Yeah, fair enough on the bucket part. I don't think that would count for anything, looking back on it now.

I'm not sure about the whole "his durability is high enough that burning in lava doesn't instantly kill him" part. I don't know if 9-As can necessarily survive lava just based on their durability alone? The one example I can think of is Karkat from Homestuck burning to death in lava, and he's 9-A. You might have a case for Heat Resistance in that regard, I don't know.

 

[Davidgumazon]

No, soul fire doesn't deal "soul damage." Simply drinking a potion of fire resistance is enough to negate any damage dealt, indicating that it is heat alone. The reason for the increased damage is a reference to how blue fire is hotter than orange fire in real life.

It's only a reference, but not necessary true for the game. It's not only reference in real life. In fact it deliberately doesn't melt the snow unlike standard Fire hence the literal Soul fire directly damages the Steve's soul. Hotter than Fire? Nah. Blue Fire is called as Soul Fire. Though even the Minecraft: Dungeons hinted a ranged weapons that's related to it, it's Soul Bow and Corrupted Beacon. Therefore Minecraft universe have the power related to the Soul.

Thank you for inadvertently proving my point by saying packed ice not melting was supposed to be an intended feature of Minecraft. Now we know that the developers deliberately programmed it so it doesn't melt in the Nether, and this isn't some fluke.

My point is Blue Ice deliberately added for Basalt generator.

There's no such thing as an infinite lava source. Not even sure what point you were trying to make there, but whatever it was, it's moot.

Moot? It doesn't. You missed the point. I meant infinite Lava flow and not Lava source. Though, infinite Lava source exists in early version.

You're forgetting that in addition to being a warm biome, the Nether is also incredibly dry, moreso than deserts, badlands, or any overworld biome.

Nope, I accounted it for my arguments but I decided to ignore it. Not necessarily true for Water though. This is intended feature for World Generation. Technically, even the Snow Golem's damaged non-dry/non-warm biomes such as jungles. MCPE-16575 MCPE-16575 But also it doesn't mean that within the Overworld biomes could dry both Water and Wet Sponge.

Those are the two factors that cause the sponge to lose water.

This is myth. Wet Sponge only dried via Nether Heat or Furnace. So you assumed that the Minecraft Water become a realistic Water after being absorbed by Sponge but this is misconception about Wet Sponge. Let me clarify you, Wet Sponge still stores Minecraft Water: "If a bucket is in the fuel slot at the time the sponge completes its drying, the water drains into the bucket, leaving a bucket of water in the fuel slot. Otherwise, the water just evaporates."

If the heat in the Nether was as hot as the previous calc implied, the sponge would not only dry up, but shrivel up and die immediately.

Myth again. You're mixing up Sponge and Corrals the same thing. Corrals exists in Minecraft. They dried up without water. Wet Sponge never dried under those dry Overworld biomes, the Wet Sponge is filled with Minecraft Water which doesn't evaporate under those Overworld biomes. Only the Water and Wet Sponge are within the Nether biome for water to evaporate. Wet Sponge turn into Sponge meaning it's reusable block which imply it doesn't burn Sponge.

Real Life Sponge =/= Minecraft Sponge

Real Life Sponge is too realistic which is not Minecraft at all. Minecraft Sponge drains large amount of Minecraft water.

We assume that Minecraft follows real-world physics for the most part for the purposes of calcs. I can't just say "W-well, Dragon Ball doesn't make any sense and ki isn't real, so you can't apply the laws of physics to that series at all!" Minecraft is inconsistent, but so is nearly every other verse on this site. We work with what we have.

Yet you still ignore something contradicts your point. Writing a list of facts about their mechanics doesn't mean those facts are consistent to the game or when the game followed real-world physics are consistent to the game. Still not necessarily always true and consistent. Just like when I refute the paradox in the game about items. We can't always assume all blocks melt/burnt in the Nether. When the purpose of other blocks were intended to work like that.

 

[AKM sama]

I'm not sure about the whole "his durability is high enough that burning in lava doesn't instantly kill him" part. I don't know if 9-As can necessarily survive lava just based on their durability alone? The one example I can think of is Karkat from Homestuck burning to death in lava, and he's 9-A. You might have a case for Heat Resistance in that regard, I don't know.

Having enough durability can very well counter the effects of heat, yes. And it's not like he's surviving it. He's not. He's only delaying the inevitable until his body gives in and he dies which can be easily explained by higher durability of his body taking more time to get effected by heat.

 

[Davidgumazon]

If you guys thought Nether Heat was inconsistent. Also the Fire is too inconsistent to measure the exact temperature when fire was produced by many different methods. Possibly the Fire is hotter than the Nether Heat. Likely as hot as Magma Block. The Magma block is made of the Magma cream is made of the Magma Cube. As hot as Blaze's fire by 1/5 when catch fire from Blaze's fire ball. As hot as Lava by 1/4 catch fire from Lava. Campfire's and Flint & Steel's Fires are too far in comparison from the four. Also Steve can't caught on fire with Campfire.

(The "1/4" and "1/5" is based on HP damage since the Fire originated from them, not Flint and Steel nor Campfire)

 

[Joaco0902]

Having enough durability can very well counter the effects of heat, yes. And it's not like he's surviving it. He's not. He's only delaying the inevitable until his body gives in and he dies which can be easily explained by higher durability of his body taking more time to get effected by heat.

He does survive if he gets out of it fast enough.

 

[Nemo212]

He can survive if he gets out of it because he has higher durability, which gives him more time to do so. I think AKM's right, any heat resistance would just be part of his durability.

Davidgumazon, I'm going to start a new CRT for the Nether heat issue, since I don't really think it affects the issue at hand. We can talk there.

 

[AKM sama]

Okay. I'll close this one then.