Baryon Mode Naruto Big Stronk

[Arc7Kuroi]

Intro
I think Baryon Mode Naruto has a strong case for outscaling the full yield of the ETSO.

Argument
The official translation is found here. The important part of the statement is: Rather than Naruto and Kurama's chakra being "kneaded together" as usual, it undergoes "fusion", releasing a heretofore unseen level of energy as a byproduct. Which holds implications that Baryon Mode Naruto > the ETSO.

Heretofore unseen level of energy, when broken down is stating that Naruto is producing levels of energy that are on a different level than anything else we’ve seen in the Naruto verse at the time of its use (obviously later stuff can happen that surpass Naruto, namely Shibai already). The conclusion we would draw is that all other “levels of energy” we’ve seen before are beneath Baryon Mode Naruto, and this naturally includes the ETSO. Thus, Baryon Mode Naruto should scale to whatever value we end up accepting the ETSO to be (I say this because the ETSO’s value is rather fluid lately, but it’s somewhere in 4-B).

My translation of the raws, specifically the aforementioned portion is: Naruto and Kurama's chakra which is usually kneaded together, generates an entirely distinct enormous energy by means of fusion. I can see the concern of “well that’s a bit more vague isn’t” but allow me to address that.

I’ll concede to the notion that my translation is more vague than the official translation; however, it isn’t contradictory to the official translation and frankly you can draw the same conclusion from inferences upon my translation. The official translation is more direct about Baryon Mode’s being greater, but since that’s something that can be deduced from the raws anyway, it’s best to lean with the interpretation supported by the official English. Especially, given all the ways we can equivocate this statement and it’s interpretations, we would need something to tip the scales, and I believe the OFFICIAL translation should absolutely take precedence over any fan interpretation contradicting such. Doubly so when considering the official translation isn’t strictly incorrect either.

Lastly, there are no contradictions nor indications of an outlier for Baryon Mode Naruto either. It’s an explained massive jump in power accompanied by a transformation, scaling to characters who are in no way affected or limited by Boruto’s Uzuhiko. I can go into depth with our outlier page standards, but for the sake of brevity I’ll refrain unless necessary.

Conclusion
Due to possessing large levels of energy implied to be beyond what we've seen previously, I believe Baryon Mode Naruto > ETSO.

Agree:
Neutral:
Disagree: Damage

 

[henryzx900ruly]

Solar system naruto is real. I agree

 

[Godernet]

NOOOOOO, ETSO was suppose to be banned remember?

You’ve betrayed the fellowship

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

tier 4 naruto in my vs battle?

you disgust me arc.

 

[henryzx900ruly]

Intro
I think Baryon Mode Naruto has a strong case for outscaling the full yield of the ETSO.

Argument
The official translation is found here. The important part of the statement is: Rather than Naruto and Kurama's chakra being "kneaded together" as usual, it undergoes "fusion", releasing a heretofore unseen level of energy as a byproduct. Which holds implications that Baryon Mode Naruto > the ETSO.

Heretofore unseen level of energy, when broken down is stating that Naruto is producing levels of energy that are on a different level than anything else we’ve seen in the Naruto verse at the time of its use (obviously later stuff can happen that surpass Naruto, namely Shibai already). The conclusion we would draw is that all other “levels of energy” we’ve seen before are beneath Baryon Mode Naruto, and this naturally includes the ETSO. Thus, Baryon Mode Naruto should scale to whatever value we end up accepting the ETSO to be (I say this because the ETSO’s value is rather fluid lately, but it’s somewhere in 4-B).

My translation of the raws, specifically the aforementioned portion is: Naruto and Kurama's chakra which is usually kneaded together, generates an entirely distinct enormous energy by means of fusion. I can see the concern of “well that’s a bit more vague isn’t” but allow me to address that.

I’ll concede to the notion that my translation is more vague than the official translation; however, it isn’t contradictory to the official translation and frankly you can draw the same conclusion from inferences upon my translation. The official translation is more direct about Baryon Mode’s being greater, but since that’s something that can be deduced from the raws anyway, it’s best to lean with the interpretation supported by the official English. Especially, given all the ways we can equivocate this statement and it’s interpretations, we would need something to tip the scales, and I believe the OFFICIAL translation should absolutely take precedence over any fan interpretation contradicting such. Doubly so when considering the official translation isn’t strictly incorrect either.

Lastly, there are no contradictions nor indications of an outlier for Baryon Mode Naruto either. It’s an explained massive jump in power accompanied by a transformation, scaling to characters who are in no way affected or limited by Boruto’s Uzuhiko. I can go into depth with our outlier page standards, but for the sake of brevity I’ll refrain unless necessary.

Conclusion
Due to possessing large levels of energy implied to be beyond what we've seen previously, I believe Baryon Mode Naruto > ETSO.

Agree:
Neutral:
Disagree:

oh yeah also add more scans to this but otherwise i think it narratively works

 

[henryzx900ruly]

tier 4 naruto in my vs battle?

you disgust me arc.

The Naruto fans have waited SO LONG for this to happen.

 

[Stryker861]

Was not expecting this, agree for now

 

[Damage3245]

Rather than Naruto and Kurama's chakra being "kneaded together" as usual, it undergoes "fusion", releasing a heretofore unseen level of energy as a byproduct.

"Heretofore unseen level of energy" could be referring to unseen levels of energy for Naruto and Kurama. The product their "fusion" producing a result that exceeds either of them individually.

Unless there is anything specifically indicating them exceeding the ETSO with Baryon Mode, I think it is too much of a reach for a solid rating.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Er, I have to point out that the English version of the website is confirmed to use machine translations (check near the bottom of any page)

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

"Heretofore unseen level of energy" could be referring to unseen levels of energy for Naruto and Kurama. The product their "fusion" producing a result that exceeds either of them individually.

Unless there is anything specifically indicating them exceeding the ETSO with Baryon Mode, I think it is too much of a reach for a solid rating.

For clarity's sake, are you saying you think grounds for a partial rating exists, or are you saying you disagree entirely?

 

[Damage3245]

For clarity's sake, are you saying you think grounds for a partial rating exists, or are you saying you disagree entirely?

I disagree entirely currently, but will see how the rest of the thread goes.

Even if I believed that Baryon Mode Naruto held a total amount of energy within him that exceeded the ETSO, that doesn't necessarily mean I think he's released ETSO-levels of AP with every punch or kick. So for the time being I disagree with the proposal.

 

[SlendVeny]

Agree

 

[henryzx900ruly]

"Heretofore unseen level of energy" could be referring to unseen levels of energy for Naruto and Kurama. The product their "fusion" producing a result that exceeds either of them individually.

Unless there is anything specifically indicating them exceeding the ETSO with Baryon Mode, I think it is too much of a reach for a solid rating.

there's gonna be some type of semantical interpretation of this right, which the conclusion being drawn leading do what the OP is saying right so whats gonna be the argument against this interpretation. go ahead

 

[SlendVeny]

"Heretofore unseen level of energy" could be referring to unseen levels of energy for Naruto and Kurama. The product their "fusion" producing a result that exceeds either of them individually.

It could also be unseen levels BY Naruto and Kurama, and I'm pretty sure they saw the ETSO.

 

[Scarletjet]

 

[henryzx900ruly]

Even if I believed that Baryon Mode Naruto held a total amount of energy within him that exceeded the ETSO, that doesn't necessarily mean I think he's released ETSO-levels of AP with every punch or kick. So for the time being I disagree with the proposal.

this part doesnt make sense and heres why.
so lets say that we do take baryon mode naruto having this ammount of enegry to be the case right. the contradiction with this right is gonna be when you said "that doesn't necessarily mean I think he's released ETSO-levels of AP with every punch or kick." this is going to imply some type of interpation that he would have to do this type of physical action multiple times for a rating to be applied right as the semantical implications of what your trying to argue right, would infer that that the conclusion is that hes never done this multiple times or whatever. which during his fight with issfraudhi i belive that we can just make the narrative argument that naruto would be trying his hardest and his best to win so i do belive if you were to grant BMN having greater levels of energy than the ETSO he would have atleast used said enegry once.
go ahead

 

[Samlex1234]

NOOOOOO, ETSO was suppose to be banned remember?

You’ve betrayed the fellowship

SMH

 

[Samlex1234]

"Heretofore unseen level of energy" could be referring to unseen levels of energy for Naruto and Kurama. The product their "fusion" producing a result that exceeds either of them individually.

Unless there is anything specifically indicating them exceeding the ETSO with Baryon Mode, I think it is too much of a reach for a solid rating.

I disagree for damage reasons.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I disagree for damage reasons.

Aren't you always a proponent of Naruto upscales

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

this part doesnt make sense and heres why.
so lets say that we do take baryon mode naruto having this ammount of enegry to be the case right. the contradiction with this right is gonna be when you said "that doesn't necessarily mean I think he's released ETSO-levels of AP with every punch or kick." this is going to imply some type of interpation that he would have to do this type of physical action multiple times for a rating to be applied right as the semantical implications of what your trying to argue right, would infer that that the conclusion is that hes never done this multiple times or whatever. which during his fight with issfraudhi i belive that we can just make the narrative argument that naruto would be trying his hardest and his best to win so i do belive if you were to grant BMN having greater levels of energy than the ETSO he would have atleast used said enegry once.
go ahead

 

[AnimesFreak2]

Neutral for now

 

[Samlex1234]

Aren't you always a proponent of Naruto upscales

I firmly believe that Isshiki is far superior to Kaguya, even with her Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb (ETSO), and the difference is significant. Given this, Baryon Mode should also operate on a comparable level.
However, what I dislike is the inconsistency and hypocrisy. How can someone spend hours arguing against Majestic Attire Susano’o (MAS) despite all the available evidence, only to turn around and use similar reasoning to hype Baryon Mode?

If MAS isn’t considered the strongest offensive and defensive technique in shinobi history, why should Baryon Mode—simply described as ‘releasing an unseen level of energy as a byproduct’—be greater than all the energy outputs we’ve witnessed? When it might only be ‘unseen’ in terms of the energy produced specifically by Naruto and Kurama, not and necessarily in comparison to all other shinobi techniques.

Honestly I could go into many things wrong with this including multiple fallacies but I will leave it for now.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Idk who smallex is talking about tbh I never spent hours arguing against MAS, and neither is this premise of my inconsistent or hypocritical with my other stances. If you came in here to whine, I'll ask the thread mods kick you out of the thread. Otherwise stay on topic, MAS has nothing to do with this.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I firmly believe that Isshiki is far superior to Kaguya, even with her Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb (ETSO), and the difference is significant. Given this, Baryon Mode should also operate on a comparable level.
However, what I dislike is the inconsistency and hypocrisy. How can someone spend hours arguing against Majestic Attire Susano’o (MAS) despite all the available evidence, only to turn around and use similar reasoning to hype Baryon Mode?

If MAS isn’t considered the strongest offensive and defensive technique in shinobi history, why should Baryon Mode—simply described as ‘releasing an unseen level of energy as a byproduct’—be greater than all the energy outputs we’ve witnessed? When it might only be ‘unseen’ in terms of the energy produced specifically by Naruto and Kurama, not and necessarily in comparison to all other shinobi techniques.

Honestly I could go into many things wrong with this including multiple fallacies but I will leave it for now.

1. A personal grudge shouldn't impact your opinion on CRTs
2. The machine translation of never before seen levels of energy isn't really the same as strongest, which could mean strongest of the time (like how the statement calling Hashirama the strongest ninja in the 4th DB doesn't mean he's above SPSM Naruto)

 

[That_moron2]

Disagree for Damage's reasons

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Damage's reasons are cool and all but are we not gonna talk about this elephant in the room

 

[Samlex1234]

Idk who smallex is talking about tbh I never spent hours arguing against MAS, and neither is this premise of my inconsistent or hypocritical with my other stances. If you came in here to whine, I'll ask the thread mods kick you out of the thread. Otherwise stay on topic, MAS has nothing to do with this.

I disagreed with your crt and gave my reason, in fact I mentioned why it is indeed hypocrisy and inconsistent in my reply. You will ask the mod to kick me out? For what and why?, who are you to do that?.

 

[Damage3245]

Damage's reasons are cool and all but are we not gonna talk about this elephant in the room

I don't suppose that there exists a raw Japanese version of the text in the OP?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I don't suppose that there exists a raw Japanese version of the text in the OP?

The OP did talk about that

My translation of the raws, specifically the aforementioned portion is: Naruto and Kurama's chakra which is usually kneaded together, generates an entirely distinct enormous energy by means of fusion. I can see the concern of “well that’s a bit more vague isn’t” but allow me to address that.

I’ll concede to the notion that my translation is more vague than the official translation; however, it isn’t contradictory to the official translation and frankly you can draw the same conclusion from inferences upon my translation. The official translation is more direct about Baryon Mode’s being greater, but since that’s something that can be deduced from the raws anyway, it’s best to lean with the interpretation supported by the official English. Especially, given all the ways we can equivocate this statement and it’s interpretations, we would need something to tip the scales, and I believe the OFFICIAL translation should absolutely take precedence over any fan interpretation contradicting such. Doubly so when considering the official translation isn’t strictly incorrect either.

 

[Samlex1234]

1. A personal grudge shouldn't impact your opinion on CRTs
2. The machine translation of never before seen levels of energy isn't really the same as strongest, which could mean strongest of the time (like how the statement calling Hashirama the strongest ninja in the 4th DB doesn't mean he's above SPSM Naruto)

Minato what in my reply to you includes a personal grudge?

 

[Damage3245]

@Samlex1234 Can you please stop responding to others on this thread that isn't directly about the topic? It's just derailing and unnecessary. Frankly MinatoSparkle's initial question was unnecessary too and doesn't warrant a response.

 

[Samlex1234]

@Samlex1234 Can you please stop responding to others on this thread that isn't directly about the topic? It's just derailing and unnecessary. Frankly MinatoSparkle's initial question was unnecessary too and doesn't warrant a response.

No problem man, I hate derails too.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Damage's reasons are cool and all but are we not gonna talk about this elephant in the room

I'm of two minds: 1) while the method of translation is machine, it's still the official translation, and is what the official website decided to go with + the translation isn't inherently incorrect either, but 2) I do agree that it being MTL does provide more room for debate regarding interpretations and translations of the kanji characters themselves. Tentatively, I'd say that shifts my mind into leaning more towards a partial rating if it gets one, but I'll defer to staff judgment on that.

 

[Damage3245]

The OP did talk about that

Ah, yeah.

I did a teensy bit of AI translating of the section in the original Japanese as well, and got:

Naruto and Kurama do not combine their chakra as usual by "blending" it, but rather "fuse" it, creating a completely different and massive energy output.

Or:

By `fusing'' the chakras of Naruto and Kusama instead of `combining'' them as usual, a completely different large amount of energy is generated as a byproduct.

Or:

"By 'fusing' Naruto and Kurama's chakra, rather than simply 'blending' it as they normally do, a completely different and enormous amount of energy is generated as a byproduct."

Or:

By "fusing" rather than "mixing" Naruto and Kurama's chakra in the usual way, a completely different and large energy is generated as a byproduct.

I'm not completely throwing my confidence in the powers of AI here but that's four different online methods I've tried using to translate it.

Given that the "official" translation admittedly also uses machine translation, it's hard to see why their method in particular would inherently be more accurate than all these other methods which don't have any specific implication for Baryon Mode exceeding all previously existing levels of energy.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

How about we ask a Translation Helper, such as Qliphoth_Backical, to give their take on the raws and go from there? I think seeing whether their version aligns with the "official" TL or Arc's (and the other AI TLs Damage did) could help settle this.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

How about we ask a Translation Helper, such as Qliphoth_Backical, to give their take on the raws and go from there? I think seeing whether their versions aligns with the "official" TL or Arc's (and the other AI TLs Damage did) could help settle this.

Wanna ping Qliphoth to get his opinion on the translations

 

[Damage3245]

@Qliphoth_Bacikal If you wouldn't mind, could you lend us your views on this section of text?

ナルトと九喇嘛のチャクラを通常のように「練り合わせる」のではなく「融合」させる事により、副産物的に全く別の大きなエネルギーを発生させる。

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Ninja'd. Thanks, Damage.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

For sake of ease so he doesn't have to scroll up:
Here's the official MTL: Rather than Naruto and Kurama's chakra being "kneaded together" as usual, it undergoes "fusion", releasing a heretofore unseen level of energy as a byproduct.
Here's my TL: Naruto and Kurama's chakra which is usually kneaded together, generates an entirely distinct enormous energy by means of fusion.
And Damage posted the raws.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

It's as blatant as it gets so I agree although the (third party) translation could be up for debate, since it's the official site claiming this there should be no problem