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RadicalMrR

VS Battles
Retired
3,179
503
Low 7-B Ban and High 7-C Kenshiro

Tell me if speed needs equlizing

Not bloodlust

If inconclusive use Bloodlusted as tie breaker

7-5 in favor of Ken
 
ban is mach 277 (obd version) or mach 800 (our version) in his low 7b profile

cant tell much about the rest for now, would need some input
 
ban is immortal, so if kenshiro doesnt have a BFR method, a method to kill immortals or mind/soul-attacking hax i dont see how he could win this :/

in the end he will run out of stamina (if he has hihger stats) and than ban will defeat him :(
 
^oh, ok, but they are both MHS and ban has hihger AP...

i would say ban wins most of the time because kenshiro wont use such overkill techs on him without a reason, so ban will be able to absorb kenshiros stats and kill him like that, i would say 70/100 fights for Ban,

but if ken is bloodlusted as in "wants to desttroooooooyyyy ban" (spoken in a berserk like mode) than i would say he wins most of the time, around 80/100 ^_^
 
Well Ban's faster than Ken since in base he's at least Mach 336 by scaling from his brother, and is at least Mach 1121 when using his Tenryu Koryu Ho.

Just to point that out. Though since the OP didn't specify which Ken, i suppose we're going with him at his strongest and fastest, maybe?
 
I think speed should be equalized and both should be blood-lusted (latter is not neccessary). If you decide to do neither, Ban likely takes it. Otherwise, that's up for debate
 
This is a hard debate, on one hand this man Ban has a lot going for him like hunter fest and etc. and his awesome regen, however I'm also sure maybe Ken can take this one with this his op styles hmmmm let me think.

1. I'll start with Ken, ban has one thing going for him that will shock Ken and that's bans godly regen that I can agree survive Kens pressure point attacks, and here's how I see this fight going. Ken will try to end this fight quickly by pressing a few points and ban will explode. However as Ken turns around he senses ban murderous presescnce and will turn around quickly seeing ban healed up.

Naturally this will leave him shock and put up a defense since ban will begin charging and attacking. This will be Kens toughest fight as ban takes away his strength using hunter fest. However some may not realized but theirs multiple pressure points that can actually power up Ken and regain his full power after ban talked his strength so hunter fest will be nulled. Also Ken may not have a regen like ban but he can regenerate organs and such pretty quickly like ban so this will keep him up his toes.

Also while exploding pressure points will be useless, Ken could use other methods like paralyzing ban, putting ban in a coma, Erase his memory, make his nerves hyper sensitive , etc. Ken will also begin using gento ko Ken, a martial art capable of erasing men or objects on the cellular level( Falco used his gento to erase a man named jacko'sbody completely with it) so I'm not familiar with bans regen and unsure if he can survive full cellular erase.

But let's say he can regen this, then Ken will realize he has no choice but to pull out Museo tensei, this attack will erase bans existance and he cannot attack Ken at all in this form,as he pops in and out of existence. I hate using this as a win but that's how I see Ken winning this fight since ban is such an incredible fighter and opponent.

I see Ken with incredibly high difficulty winning this fight with ban ONLY because his hax and I argue smart mind and skill is above bans.also while ban is Initially faster Ken can protect him self with his God of war fighting aura, and his aura can push ban back and slice his limbs as well, and is known to push pressure points as well on Kens command, heck even subconsiusly it does. Also some may say Kenshiro may not go for the kill on ban without reason, the thing is he will, Kenshiro or at least all hokuto masters look at the heart and aura to guess what people's tru identity are like.they are not fooled by words,and are known to easily premiere what a person is like,an example would be when Raoh was able to predict to Falco that his associate, jacko'sbody was gunna betray him in the future just by looking at his aura and heart and did not hesitate to kill him but was stopped by Falco. Ken also does the same thing with people trying to trick him. He will sense bans murderous aura and figure out he's not a good guy and will not hesitate as a master assassin to end ban quickly with all at his disposal.That's my opinon based around their profiles and what I know of the two.
 
you put a lot of effort in this stuff..however you think way too complicated.

ban in character immediately goes for snatching the opponents heart or head

and due to massively superior stat there is little kenshiro can do to avoid it

dont get me started with "zero sign" which is basically a free hit on any opponent...
 
RavenSupreme said:
you put a lot of effort in this stuff..however you think way too complicated.

ban in character immediately goes for snatching the opponents heart or head

and due to massively superior stat there is little kenshiro can do to avoid it

dont get me started with "zero sign" which is basically a free hit on any opponent...
Hmm you make a point by forgot to tell you, Ken could use hokuto ryuuken to immobilize Ban into the air by creating an anti gravity effect and having him remove his idea of where he would be spinning in place and letting Ken go for the kill as well. Also like in character Ken also goes for the kill and is always ready to defend. As I said this fight will not be easy at all but I see Ken winning this due to skill, higher level hax and his other styles provide chances for him to end ban as well. Also Ken has low mid regen, while doesn't hold a candle to ban could hold on for a while. Also zero sign can do the same thing as Kens Kükyoku Ryübu (þ®║µÑÁµÁüÞê×, Empty Polar Current Dance): An evading technique used to avoid the Golan Colonel's boomerangs. It erases a person's presence completely. so they both have their presence erased. Ken has fought people who have erased their presences completely as well, but his mastery over his senses has allowed him to subconsciously react an attack.
 
isnt that also a close combat technique?

ban can steal organs, limbs, head etc. from dozens of meters away...thats definetly an advantage since he does not have to cross a distance to land his first strike

and his first strike would be deadly already

with HF his reach is about 100 meters even
 
RavenSupreme said:
isnt that also a close combat technique?

ban can steal organs, limbs, head etc. from dozens of meters away...thats definetly an advantage since he does not have to cross a distance to land his first strike

and his first strike would be deadly already

with HF his reach is about 100 meters even
It's not a close range technique, it's more like an ability he can do its just called that. he can sense his target and even dodge silent masked knife attacks from a few km's away, his hearing as well is incredibly acute, it's stated that he can hear a whisper from two km away, an he's gone and stated that even if you mask your presence he can still track you(I have a scan if you wish too see it. Range attacks will be deadly but Ken is no stranger to silent strikes from a distance, he'll his brother raohs fighting aura picked up and blocked an assassins deadly silent aura as he was trying to kill him, Ken also does this as well.Sneak attacks don't work on him really cause he is of course a master assassin, and his style is very large and has many variety to choose from. but it will be tough for him guarantee. As for hunter fest I stated yes if ban steals his strength and etc this will pose a problem, however theirs multiple pressure points in Kens body that can renergize and heal him at full strength, adding already to his very reactive healing factor. As I said too Ken can immobilize ban with hokuto ryuuken and he has other pressure points that don't explode and can paralyze ban and put him in a coma, erase his memories, etc.
 
Sure, if you example il give you a couple links to images, however some are not him, but the moves he can used, hokuto Shinken is limited in some range attacks and a lot of his immobilizing attacks come are from his other styles. Also it's very hard for me to find all the images but I have some very noticeable ones you could use. Also,the rest could give you are discriptions to long range moves.

http://sta.sh/0dc4yylgsdj

Anryü_Tenha_%28Kaioh%29.jpg


http://hokuto.wikia.com/wiki/File:Anry%C5%AB_Tenha_(Hyo).jpg

http://pic2.taadd.com/comics/pic4/46/16238/492979/FistoftheNorthStar6616569.jpg

http://pic2.taadd.com/comics/pic4/46/16238/492979/FistoftheNorthStar6618492.jpg

http://pic2.taadd.com/comics/pic4/46/16238/493066/FistoftheNorthStar9617502.jpg(Keep in mind this move can go way farther)

Õñ®Õ░åÕÑöþâê, Heaven's Command Charge)

A powerful rotating hand charge which fires a large wave of tōki at the enemy. Kenshiro would later go on to use the technique in his match against the Rasho Han, upon which Han remarks that he recognizes it as Raoh's technique. Can go up to several km away.

Sorry if you think these picks don't look far usually the charscters are super close to each other when they do the moves. But the games and anime show them using these moves and they go far. Also some of their best moves are shown in their games or anime.
 
the problem i see with all these things is, ban can take them and survive / keep on going, seeing they are still penetrating the mere body.

whereas kenshiro can not afford to get tagged even once by bans fox hunt.

attacking the pressure points of a person is less effective than getting your head ripped off your neck
 
RavenSupreme said:
the problem i see with all these things is, ban can take them and survive / keep on going, seeing they are still penetrating the mere body.

whereas kenshiro can not afford to get tagged even once by bans fox hunt.

attacking the pressure points of a person is less effective than getting your head ripped off your neck
Raven the the thing pressure points are super effective these are all just soft images. You would have to personally read fist of the North Star and see for your self. While ban can heal from blowing up theirs things he cant heal I believe. Like getting his whole body erased on the cellular level (I'll show links) and theirs still Museo tensei. And like I said theirs pressure points where they can paralyze bans whole body and he can't move. And Ken always has a fighting aura covering him for protection.

http://pic2.taadd.com/comics/pic4/46/16238/493256/FistoftheNorthStar15916872.jpg http://pic2.taadd.com/comics/pic4/46/16238/493256/FistoftheNorthStar15917411.jpg

He did this face to face but he did the same thing ranged with some fodders. Ken could use these moves to immobilize and then erase ban completey.ken will not let ban close to him he performs to stay a good distance from enemies and follow their movement in order to counter their fighting style and movement completely. With Kens instant ready defense and his ability to drop theses haxes on the drop of a hat will give the win to Ken super high diffificuly IMO. Bans fox hunt can be dodged and Ken has been able to regenerate organs hell his brother (who's regen is on par or lower than Kens survived his heart and lungs destroyed.

http://pic2.taadd.com/comics/pic4/46/16238/493198/FistoftheNorthStar1351583.jpg
 
well the fighting aura only protects to the most level of AP it has defended. seeing he is high 7C i think 240kilotons ban even at his lowest is already 10-15 times stronger on a casual base. so kenshiros protective aura falls short in any form of encounter.

now regarding the speed, they are about the same level with kenshiro being mach 379 if i recall that correctly and ban being mach 880, meaning he is likely to get the first hit.

i understand your reasoning, but its based of the premise that ban is basically just standing there and doing nothing - especially when he needs to tag the pressure points, which is otherwise close to impossible due to the speed gap. which is not what ban does when he is in for the kill.
 
RavenSupreme said:
well the fighting aura only protects to the most level of AP it has defended. seeing he is high 7C i think 240kilotons ban even at his lowest is already 10-15 times stronger on a casual base. so kenshiros protective aura falls short in any form of encounter.

now regarding the speed, they are about the same level with kenshiro being mach 379 if i recall that correctly and ban being mach 880, meaning he is likely to get the first hit.

i understand your reasoning, but its based of the premise that ban is basically just standing there and doing nothing - especially when he needs to tag the pressure points, which is otherwise close to impossible due to the speed gap. which is not what ban does when he is in for the kill.
The aura isnt like a defense shield where it blocks only physical attacks . Think of it like a laser grid that kills on contact. If Bangor to close to Ken his aura can hit his pressure points even if bans puts up his guard. The reason Ken doesn't blow up with Raoh or other users of hokuto hitting him directly with pressure points, is because he's immune to his own pressure post their sealed up, and even if the ones that can be hit he knows how to reverse it. But to everyone else they insta kill even ban, they ignore Durabilty. As for ban, Kens speed is actually amiguous, the feat comes from him casually closing the distance and blocking an attack at Mach 336. At base form he could use 30% of his power and if you look at the way he performed his block he wasent serious at all and could easily have been using less than 20 or 10% of his power. And if he uses his dragon breath technique he can amp his speed to a higher level than ban to at least Mach 1121 and that's a lowball. Remember both are in for the kill and Ken will use his insta kill attacks to end ban, and fail of course but that will only make him even more cautious and make him use his more deadly Arsenal. He also even if ban leave him bloody and unconscious, his spirit will fight for him and could kill him as well.
 
I will admit ban has the AP advantage which will prove deadly. It his regen will keep him around long enough for him to take one or too strong attacks. This fight is reeeeally close and ban could win for sure as well.
 
nontheless we should not assume the aura can take more than what was shown in verse. after all its not some spatial manipulation where attacks get send to a different dimension or the like. with a 10-15 times power gap the aura would be close to non-existant defensive wise. like when i try to protect me with a paper from a knife stabbing me.

i also think "they instakill everyone else" is a stretch. such things should always be said with a grain of salt.

the problem is, ban stole the entire physical stats including speed of someone being mach 880 himself. leaving him with double the speed and the latter with nothing. so even under the assumption ken would be scaled to mach 1100 in this scenario, the result would be a mach 1600 ban vs a mach 300 kenshiro in the end - which, alongside with the massive AP advantage makes this pretty obvious

there also are no "second chances" when kenshiro fails with his moves, if he even got the time to pull them off in the first place.

kenshiro may has 1-2 very specific and limited ways to may edge out a win. but ban dominates in versatility and stats matchwise - making things more clear in a bloodlusted scenario from the first place. he takes it
 
Hmmmm, you make very,very solid points. However, if you have seen the show these attacks are actually insta kill , my not exaggerating or anything, if you don't believe me ask someone like cross or another afficato. They will tell you his attacks ignore Durabilty completey. And the fighting aura like I said don't act like shields they act like a laser grid and if you put your fist as an example in them it will destroy your hand, meaning their auras are known to go on a much deeper level than normal Durabilty, Ken had to use Museo tensei to enter raohs dome in order for him not to die in fact.Ive onlys shown you are very small examples for their range really. Your absolutely right about hunter fest. However doesn't hunter or physical fest have a time limit and he will most likely take Kens abilities when he's in base form as his powers lie dormant, if not I can see ban overpowering Ken physically, but however like I said if ban also slips up Ken won't hesitate to erase him with Museo tensei or gento ko Ken and destroy ban completely. Also just because yes ban can take kenshiros strength and speed away dozens mean he can get it back,like I said theirs pressure points he can press on himself to renergize his full power, he'll theirs a double edge pressure point which doubles his over full power at the cost of shorting his life span called the Sekkatsu-kō point.ken will not hesitate as well to press it so the match would be Mach 1600 vs Mach 2200 if you think about .honestly this a tough and interesting match and could go either way
 
BTW,off topic a little, but Raven your a really good solid debater and bring on really good facts. Your making it hard to argue, which is great.
 
you are having one little flaw in your argument tho - as you said this technique shortens his lifespan. its nothing kenshiro would do right of the start - especially since the conditions are without knowledge.

meaning when he actually choses to use the technique, he no longer is a mach 1.1k fighter, but a mach 300 fighter. meaning even with that "last resort" he is still 1000 mach behind, which is blitzing range.

and i doubt any technique kenshiro has can protect him from getting his limbs stolen via FoxHunt in a mach 1000 disadvantage...

how potent is kenshiros Regenerationn?
 
RavenSupreme said:
you are having one little flaw in your argument tho - as you said this technique shortens his lifespan. its nothing kenshiro would do right of the start - especially since the conditions are without knowledge.

meaning when he actually choses to use the technique, he no longer is a mach 1.1k fighter, but a mach 300 fighter. meaning even with that "last resort" he is still 1000 mach behind, which is blitzing range.

and i doubt any technique kenshiro has can protect him from getting his limbs stolen via FoxHunt in a mach 1000 disadvantage...

how potent is kenshiros Regenerationn?
What do you mean he would be a Mach 300 fighter, like I said theirs pressure points he can press that renergize him and heal his wounds quicker and etc. he can easily go back to his Mach 1000 state and double his speed as a last result with the sekkatsu point, which will hive him the speed necessary to dodge and attack and evidently use his Museo tensei to end ban.

Oh his Regenerationn is incredibly potent. Remember that scan I showed of Raoh having his heart and lungs and ribcaged destroyed, he was still standing and his wound closed up a couple seconds to maybe a minute later. Also I have a thread where I showcase the HNKs regen feat.
 
if we assume that ban will not take the opening he gained via the use of snatch then you might be right, yeha. in character ban might actually do this since he tends to fool around a lot, giving his foe (kenshiro) the possibility to re-vitalize and buff up.

however this aint an "in character" match as it seems, but a bloodlusted scenario.

the odds for ban to use PH and then NOT going for the kill are almost non-existant. we have seen a bloodlusted ban. he immediately charges for the lethal and deadly strike. there is no inbetween, no waiting. no hesitation.

in character kenshiros chances to outsmart ban, especially after gaining knowledge, are way greater than in a bloodlusted scenario where he lacks both, stat and versatility advantage (at least in this matchup)
 
I don't think the scenarios is in bloodlust and if it oh boy, it's the same thing with Kenshiro because when he goes bloodlusted,mall hell is loose(sarcasm). He won't hesitate at all to use anymore to completely obliterate ban, and once he sees pressure points don't work, he pulls out MT and or gento to erase him as well. Kenshiro has been known to use a at if he's about to die or something is coming to kill them. (Example being when Kaioh or Raoh was about to hit him, another example is when Raoh was facing Rei and Rei was gunna use danko so Kai Ken and he saw the whole move play out in his head and he knew he would have died if he did not act. They have like a small precog ability thanks to the sueichein,and mastering opponents and abilities. So once Ken REALLLY see his odds of survivng are almost zero he will buts out MT immediately and then proceed to destroy ban. It wouldn't like a cheap tactic but he will use Anything in order to survive.
 
I changed the rules and both of you have made very good arguments for both sides but should wait to hear what others think a little first before continuing
 
we are circling in our arguments now. i propose we leave it at our vote and wait for others to give their input. we are both confident the fighter we support may take the win

lets wait how others think about it
 
RavenSupreme said:
we are circling in our arguments now. i propose we leave it at our vote and wait for others to give their input. we are both confident the fighter we support may take the win

lets wait how others think about it
I agree you did fantastic supporting ban. If Ken ends up losing I would understand it was fun debating with you.
 
I don't want to argue, just want someone to answer, but I want to know if I'm right or wrong but isn't ban known for letting opponents or rather letting attacks hit him because he's cocky about his Regenerationn Saving him. Would this be a good disadvantage. Or am I wrong?
 
Now that I remember, Bans actual Durabilty is very low, I arugue it's even lower than Ken since many lower level creatures have been able to rip his body parts like his arm. His insane Regenerationn is what makes him have that ability to survive at that level. Once Kenshiro presses his points and causes ban to explode, ban will start regenerating his body, as Ken see this he will instantly know this man is a threat, and will resort too either destroying his entire body using Gento ko Ken(falco was able to easily vaporize a man on the cellular level, Ken can do the same) or use Museo tensei on the drop of a hat, or if he's about to die, or something that will kill him, Museo tensei will activate and then erase him on the atomic level. Bans AP and very powerful abilities like hunter or fox hunt could be trouble in the long run, but Ken will take him out quick, especially seeing ban as a major threat since his normal Hokuto Shinken can't kill him.
 
Hmm. I never really gave my thought on this match up but since i did commented here a while back, might as well comment it.

I'm gonna go with Kenshiro here. Grudge has already summarized that Ken's signature Hokuto Shinken would not be able to kill Ban as his regen is high to the point of being able to get back from being torn to pieces (noting the level of his regen). Seeing this, Ken will then have to resort to other fighting styles he's encountered. Nanto Seiken would allow him to cut Ban to pieces but it'll be the same as with Hokuto Shinken + the fact that it's ability to negate regen isn't high enough to counter Ban's. But he also has that of Gento Koken where it can allow him to destroy his enemies cells. Seeing that Ban hasn't shown that level of regen (tho to be fair, i never read the series.....yet), meaning Ken has at least one way of possibly killing Ban here. There is of course Muso Tensei that Ken can use against Ban which, like Gento Koken, is something that Ban has never encountered before and is something that Ken can use to possibly kill him as well.

Ken does have range abilities like the multitude of ki techniques from the Hokuto styles (ex. Gosha Ha and Tenha Kassatsu), Nanto Seiken style, and Gento Koken style. He has regen as well that while not as good as Ban's, it has saved him and healed up his wounds quite a lot even after just finishing a fight. Then there's his own form of precog that allows him to foresee any incoming attacks from Ban. Combine that with his ability to adapt a person's fighting style and he'll be able to predict any and all moves Ban may pull off.

I do agree in that the power drain of Ban's and his higher AP will give trouble to Ken in the long run as Grudge said above but i believe that Ken, if careful, will be able to end the guy as soon as he can after he witnesses that his home style can't kill him.
 
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