Ban Vs Kenshiro

[Grudgeman1706]

I'd like to note as well, just like ban Kenshiro can actually drain an oppponents stamina/ki just by begin near them in battle, so the longer a fight goes on the more an opponent continues to lose stamina and his attacks become weaker or slower.


Edit: whole not as potent as bans hunter fest, it does help that it takes away a lot of the opponents energy over the course of battle, and even if bans hunter fest drains Kenshiro, he can revamp himself with pressure points, while ban will continue to be drained albeit it will take some time, not too much, but it will take some decent time to do serious damage.

 

[HalfAsianFan]

I'm voting Ban here low-diff if he's bloodlusted since he just instantly uses Fox Hunt. If that doesn't work he has an advantage in both speed and AP. Kenshiro being able to drain an opponent's stamina won't be much good vs Ban since he can just steal stamina from Kenshiro and Kenshiro can refill himself, meaning they'll never run out of energy.

Ban can attack Kenshiro before Kenshiro can hit him, and whether or not Ban uses Physical Hunt before attacking the first hit will be lethal since Kenshiro's dura isn't that high. No prior knowledge means that even if Kenshiro does get a hit in, he won't know about his regen and will just try to go for a pressure point. If Ban uses Physical Hunt he can blitz.

That being said, Kenshiro has a list of abilities a mile long so I'm probably missing something that he'd use early on. If it is speed equalized, I vote Kenshiro since his precog will be more effective if Ban moves at a speed that he can properly perceive, meaning that Ban won't just get an instant lethal hit on Kenshiro.

Also CrossverseCrisis is right about Ban not showing being able to regen from a cell or dust, just being blown into bits or possibly a puddle of blood.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

@HalfAsianFan: Well you did miss the fact that Kenshiro has a multitude of fighting styles to choose from that can potentially even someone like Ban and his level of regen. As well as a load of ki techniques to attack from a distance as well as regen of his (again not as good as Ban's) and his form of precog.

Two of which that stand out are Gento Koken and Muso Tensei. Gento Koken is a style that uses one's ki to destroy their foes on a cellular level. So Ken has at least one possible way of taking out Ban. Another is Muso Tensei, Hokuto Shinken's ultimate technique. This one allows Ken intangibility as well as the use of atomizing his opponents by phasing through them. Yet another way for him to possibly kill Ban with.

So yeah given that Ban's profile doesn't seem to state of him being able to regenerate from either damage (only listed as "At least High-Mid"), Kenshiro just needs a hit or two on Ban and it's likely over for the guy. Even with his level of regen.

Speaking of Kenshiro, the OP never really specified with High 7-C Kenshiro is being used here. I presume that Kenshiro's Large Town+ tier us used since that's more closer for him to Ban than his base really....

 

[HalfAsianFan]

In a bloodlust match, would Kenshiro use Muso Tensei/Gento Koken straight away? If so, I change my vote to Kenshiro.

 

[Der_Purple_Ist_Dank]

@HalfAsianFan, yes he would. If he was bloodlusted he wouldn't hold back or keep his strongest attack for last he would likely use Muso Tensei/Gento Koken if bloodlusted.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

What Derp said. If Bloodlusted, Kenshiro wouldn't need to hold back on using his most powerful moves on Ban here.

But as this is not bloodlusted, this is likely them in character.

Though it did say "if inconclusive, use bloodlust as tie breaker". From the looks of it here though, it doesn't seem inconclusive to me here AFAIK.

 

[HalfAsianFan]

Well that makes it more complicated. I'm somewhat reluctantly voting Kenshiro.

Ban will probably just start by taking as much of Kenshiro's physical strength as he can, and then try to one-shot Kenshiro since he'll likely to be able to get the first hit in since Ban's faster than Kenshiro, and the gap grows with PH. That likely won't happen via Musō Insatsu, which allows Ken to anticipate a mortal attack and counter attack, which will deal significant damage to Ban.

While Ban's regen may be formidable, it does take several seconds to regenerate from what would normally be a lethal hit, so when Kenshiro sees Ban's seemingly dead body/pieces of his body regenerating at a considerable speed, he'll have more than enough time to, as would seem logical at this stage, erase him via Musō Tensei.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

What Derp said. If Bloodlusted, Kenshiro wouldn't need to hold back on using his most powerful moves on Ban here.

But as this is not bloodlusted, this is likely them in character.

Though it did say "if inconclusive, use bloodlust as tie breaker". From the looks of it here though, it doesn't seem inconclusive to me here AFAIK.

Even if it was in character, even Raven said it would be worse for ban if he was in character since ban is very cocky and never blocks or worries about opponents attacks because he can regen. Once Ken see that his normal attacks don't work, he will resort too attacks like Gento or if he's super in danger from moves like hunter fest or fox hunt, leveling him physically drained, he will instantly go too MT and threat will be the end of ban. To either Bloodlusted or in charscter will have Kenshiro winning mid-High difficulty.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

@Grudge: That is tru of that as well.

But yeah either way, Kenshiro would sooner or later use his other styles or moves like Gento Koken or MT if his Hokuto moves don't work on Ban. *Nods*

 

[RadicalMrR]

I have updated the tally it's 4-4

 

[Ikusabe_Wataru]

I think the odds go to Kenshiro. My reasoning for this is partially from Grudge's arguments. I have to agree that some of the accepted feats on the wiki on his profile are considerably low-balled or low-ends to the extent of his capabilities. My reasoning is from seeing other battles involving Ken. Ignoring Ken's precog, I still see some of his attacks are made before his willing them at the presence of evil like his defenses for example. [Correct me if I'm mistaken] but without factoring in that these pressure points are more than probable to connect. To further the point, his precog will notice he'll survive the pressure points from his level of regen. He will then use his MT to connect the cellular destruction to finish him.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Oh man this is really close. Both fighters have so many good points backing them up. Isn't there a tie option? Either way it's really hard to decide.

Overall though.... Gonna have to side with Ban. Raven's arguments won me over and Half's point on stamina makes sense. I mean Ban is cocky and all, but it's not as if he's going to stay cocky the entire time. He's going to get serious too. And speed would be important advantage here.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Well i mean there is a reason we have Inconclusive on pretty much all of the profiles, COB. But alrighty

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Oh man this is really close. Both fighters have so many good points backing them up. Isn't there a tie option? Either way it's really hard to decide.

Overall though.... Gonna have to side with Ban. Raven's arguments won me over and Half's point on stamina makes sense. I mean Ban is cocky and all, but it's not as if he's going to stay cocky the entire time. He's going to get serious too. And speed would be important advantage here.

Ban will most likely get serious after he is blown up, also whole ban does have the advance of speed with BASE Kenshiro, Kenshiro when using "dragon breath trumps him in speed, the only way he could be faster is if he uses hunter fest and takes his speed, but that's not likely gunna happen in the beginning, even if he did, Kenshiro will already have already be in MT, theirs also his amazing skill and precog too help boost his speed up, hunter fest may drain him initially but theirs several pressure points to revive his energy, including a "life risking" pressure point to double hi strength and speed temporarily.

 

[Ikusabe_Wataru]

Is Kenshiro able to steal Ban's energy? If so would Ban be able to revitalize his AP/Speed? Or in a situation where Ken uses MT because of the precog to lower his energy.

 

[HalfAsianFan]

@Ikusabe Ban has a technique for stealing the strength and speed of others called Physical Hunt, so if Kenshiro does take his energy Ban can take it straight back.

 

[Ikusabe_Wataru]

@Ikusabe Ban has a technique for stealing the strength and speed of others called Physical Hunt, so if Kenshiro does take his energy Ban can take it straight back.

Does it require energy in the first place? Has any faster characters evaded the attack from Ban?

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Is Kenshiro able to steal Ban's energy? If so would Ban be able to revitalize his AP/Speed? Or in a situation where Ken uses MT because of the precog to lower his energy.

Kenshiro doesn't take his energy and take it for himself per say, think of it like a energy/stamina siphoning, during the course of a battle his ki will continue to drain bans stamina and energy at a rapid rate, even at a long distance, to the point where he will be too weak to even throw a strong punch, however as @halfasian pointed out, he could just get it all back from physical hunt, however it's still very useful in the fact Kenshiro could conutie to drain him after. When Kaioh used this on Ken he was so weak even after powering up that his punches did nothing on him.

 

[Ikusabe_Wataru]

Is Kenshiro able to steal Ban's energy? If so would Ban be able to revitalize his AP/Speed? Or in a situation where Ken uses MT because of the precog to lower his energy.

Kenshiro doesn't take his energy and take it for himself per say, think of it like a energy/stamina siphoning, during the course of a battle his ki will continue to drain bans stamina and energy at a rapid rate, even at a long distance, to the point where he will be too weak to even throw a strong punch, however as @halfasian pointed out, he could just get it all back from physical hunt, however it's still very useful in the fact Kenshiro could conutie to drain him after. When Kaioh used this on Ken he was so weak even after powering up that his punches did nothing on him.

I see, so in this case, Ban couldn't recover from something like that.

 

[HalfAsianFan]

@Ikusabe Not really, in this case Ban definitely could recover from something like that via Physical Hunt. It's never been shown to put any wear on him until after he's used it to significantly increase his power, just getting it back up to where it was shouldn't be too straining for him.

 

[Ikusabe_Wataru]

@Ikusabe Not really, in this case Ban definitely could recover from something like that via Physical Hunt. It's never been shown to put any wear on him until after he's used it to significantly increase his power, just getting it back up to where it was shouldn't be too straining for him.

Would Ban be aware of it, though?

 

[Grudgeman1706]

@iku no, I'm being honest he won't even know if it's happening to him. When Kenshiro was fighting Kaioh, the whole time Kaioh was draingning his energy and he didn't even know it until he explained it to him as he was beating him to death after powering up.

 

[HalfAsianFan]

^ I mean, he doesn't necessarily have a stamina-loss-detection feat or anything but when he starts feeling weak way too fast he'll probably just use PH regardless of whether or not he knows it's actually being taken or not, he'll just know that he's feeling tired.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

@halfasian oh he'll feel it eventually when he's throwing a punch and he notices it's tremendously weaker, or his speed is becoming sluggish, but by then it should be too late, given how Ken will realize his regen and what not, either vaporize him with gento or MT

 

[Kahndaq_Lord]

kenshiro due to far better hax and physical strength, also, pressure points

,

 

[Ikusabe_Wataru]

@halfasian oh he'll feel it eventually when he's throwing a punch and he notices it's tremendously weaker, or his speed is becoming sluggish, but by then it should be too late, given how Ken will realize his regen and what not, either vaporize him with gento or MT

Won't Ken use his precog since he knows Ban's ability and manipulate his pressure points or suppress his energy in time before he can use PH to cause him to gain close to nothing? If so Ken may cause him Ban to believe that his PH wouldn't be sufficient doing so, since Ken is so profound in battle. Unless Ban has a sense of Ki, Ken can revitalize his energy when it's down if executed successfully leaving a drained Ban and an energized Kenshiro without his opponent, Ban's knowing.

 

[HalfAsianFan]

Oh yeah I wasn't arguing that Ban would necessarily win, I already voted Kenshiro, just that Kenshiro's energy sapping wouldn't be too much of a problem for Ban.

^As for this I'd agree but I'd say that any powering up Kenshiro does will just end badly for him since it just means there's more for Ban to steal. Ban's more than capable of stealing 99% of the strength of opponents with higher raw strength than Kenshiro and still have room for more, so if Ken learns about Ban's ability it would be wise for him to just rely on the strength he already has, since it'll be enough anyway.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

I believe the score is 7-5 now, does that mean Ken wins? Or do we need more votes.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

There needs to be a 3 vote difference at the least, Grudge.

 

[OIYIG]

Kenshiro goes full ATATATATATAT, Omaye wa mou shindeiru and Ban is gone.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Kenshiro goes full ATATATATATAT, Omaye wa mou shindeiru and Ban is gone.

Sorry dude your going to need a better explanation on why Ken wins. You can give a brief reasoning on it or say because of mine,cross or any of the other supported why Ken wins.

Ps:ban can regenerate from exploding

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

What Grudge said. Even tho you voted for Ken, you need a better reason.

And as what Grudge said, Ban's regen is high to the point of being able to regenerate back from being blow up. That's something that Ken has never encountered before and never dealt with....

 

[OIYIG]

That was mostly a joke post, anyways couldnt Kenshiro just use Musou Tensei and turn him into atoms?

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

@OIYIG: He can atomize him with Musou Tensei or destroy Ban on a cellular level with Gento Koken.

Speaking of Ban, it seems that there was a NnT discussion and apparently his regen got upgraded to Low-High, which is higher than High-Mid from our regen page.

Just to let everyone know...

 

[Grudgeman1706]

@OIYIG: He can atomize him with Musou Tensei or destroy Ban on a cellular level with Gento Koken.

Speaking of Ban, it seems that there was a NnT discussion and apparently his regen got upgraded to Low-High, which is higher than High-Mid from our regen page.

Just to let everyone know...

Still doesn't change anything cross, since he can still be vaporized on the cellular level with gento or atomized with MT. His regen would have to be higher than "high" regen to be immune to Kens best attacks.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I'm just saying that out there, Grudge.

But yeah even then, Ken's abilities and moves can still do just that at least....

 

[Grudgeman1706]

That was mostly a joke post, anyways couldnt Kenshiro just use Musou Tensei and turn him into atoms?

So you support Ken winning via using MT to Atomize ban right?

 

[OIYIG]

Yes I am.

 

[HalfAsianFan]

Sounds like we have enough votes now then.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

It should. Ken was the first to reach 7 and there's at least a 3 vote minimum.

However, we have a waiting period of sorts (that's apparently 1 day long) in case someone ever changes their vote later on or if someone wants to leave their thoughts on here.