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Ban vs Doflapmingo

no. he send him out of the ring, seconds upon impact he was already healed and joked about his forgetfullnes

he fatigued afterwards due to the usage of PH

if ring out is a means to win doflamingos chances rise drastically tho
 
I'm still wondering how it is hard to believe that Ban can be knocked out. He can become fatigued from exerting himself (he was rendered immobile due to using too much power to fight the Ten Commandments) though no one he has fought against has ever knocked him out as of yet. That doesn't mean he can not be KO'd.

Doflamingo is an expert in terms of combat. He should be capable of knocking Ban out especially if he can get a hold of him with his threads and continuously attack him.

Doflamingo could survive Fox Hunt due to the fact that he can repair his body via threads. I highly doubt the attack could tag him, though.

edit: also, it is possible for Doflamingo to completely avoid HF and PH if this speculation is accurate and he learns of it during the fight: http://www.***********.net/nanatsu-no-taizai/144/20
 
Ban is faster than Doflamingo, this should help him use Physical hunt or hunter fest and not being hit. Fox hunt and stealing Doflamingo's heart after he's been weakened should give him the victory.
 
@Gabriel speed is equalized. Also, Ban's HF only reaped away just over half of Base Galan's physical power. Base Galan <<< Critical over.

Base Galan has a Mountain+ feat that I still can not find, but either way, it is a far cry to Doflamingo's apparent Small Island+ stats.

Ban could only utilize PH for a few minutes. Doflamingo can outlast that easily given that he is vastly superior in terms of physical ability, and that he can fight from kilometers away with his threads no problem.
 
If speed was unequal, Ban would more than likely be too slow in base. Before using HF, he was speed blitzed by Galan twice. While using HF, he was superior to Galan, which makes him MHS+.

But I would argue that Galan was slowed down while Ban's speed increased drastically. Galan was already lower-end MHS+. He stated that he could not utilize even half of his power after HF activated. I'm beginning to doubt that Ban hit MHS+ speeds while using HF.
 
If i'm not mistaken Ban powerscales to Meliodas which is mach 800. I think this thread is going nowhere.
 
Could you provide a link to the Mach 800 calc? Ban doesn't powerscale to current Meliodas and Meliodas was only comparable to Lightning speed (Mach 200+ combat speed) iirc.

Besides, Ban was blitzed twice by Galan, who has a Mach 1,137 calc (the first time Ban was blitzed was when he had his guard up and was facing Galan, who was several meters in front of him)
 
Oh, that's interesting because the speed of lightning being used is 440,000 m/s... I wont question it, though.
 
it's interesting to assume that Doflamingo's heart would be ripped out with no resistance. Why can't he defend, may I ask?
 
I'm not saying there wouldn't be resistance, just that it's a way for Ban to get around Doflamingo's higher durability.
 
There is still the chance that Doflamingo could evade Fox hunt due to realizing the risk due to pre-cognition while attempting to defend against it. Also, how would he be able to break through Doflamingo's superior durability? When he used Fox hunt on Galan, he was superior to him at the time due to HF (which is why he is even Mountain level since he leeched over half Of Base Galan's power along with some of the people surrounding him... without it, he is likely only City).

I can't say much about Doflamingo surviving having his heart ripped out, but he has been able to repair his body after all of his interal organs were blown up by Law. Either way, Fox Hunt landing on Doflamingo in the heat of battle is extremely unlikely due to speed equalization and Doflamingo's pre-cognition via haki. Ban can only fight for several minutes while using Hunter Fest before he is worn out, but even then, he only reached a level that made him superior to a weakened Base Galan while Doflamingo is around Small Island+ via scaling to Base Luffy.

Once HF runs out, Ban will be incapacitated due to overexerting himself just like he did in the manga and Doflamingo can just walk away after KOing him with CoC or a physical strike since killing Ban is practically impossible.
 
sidenote: galan is not mach 1.1k but mach 1.9k

also: like previously stated - even fatigued and knocked around he was not KOed

also: ban did not only rob galan, he also robbed mera and an entire town worth of people.

and regarding the speed equalization here a simple calculation: both start with a value from lets say 10

HF: doflamingo drops from 10 to 5 while ban goes from 10 to 15

thats too much of a difference for doflamingo to keep up
 
1) if speed is equalized, wouldn't that make any speed difference from a buff mid-fight irrelevant? I will continue this point by suggesting that you are correct and go from there:

Doflamingo still has his pre-cognition to support him if he is being speed blitzed. Luffy could travel at a speed fast enough to get behind Doflamingo (from several hundred meters of distance scaling from Doflamingo's height) before Doflamingo could react and he still managed to fortify his Armament haki defense to mitigate Luffy's incoming attack. Doflamingo also has his awakening, which can be used as a strong defense and offense at once. Do you think that Ban could defeat Doflamingo in a matter of a few minutes given the difference between them in AP/Durability.

I'm still wondering how Fox Hunt would automatically kill Doflamingo... it has only been shown used successfully on people around his physical ability (Red demon, Weakened Galan, and the one holy knight that was turned into a monster, for examples). It doesn't ignore durability from what I've seen and it isn't even listed as being capable of doing so.

2) He was last shown conscious when he entered Escanor's vault. He was then shown laying down with his eyes closed throughout the night and woke up late in the morning: http://www.***********.net/nanatsu-no-taizai/148/13, http://www.***********.net/nanatsu-no-taizai/148/18 -- even if it were nor unconscious, he was completely immobilized throughout dusk and dawn just from utilizing HF for a few minutes. It is even implied that he can only use it for a short period of time: http://www.***********.net/nanatsu-no-taizai/145/5

3) I know, but Mera's condition after being affected by it is unknown as she was still able to react and block Ban's blows with little difficulty despite being caught off guard. Base Galan lost around half of his power and the town's folk might as well be considered fodder, am i wrong?

4) Considering that Ban (at his base) is high end city, a power ratio between him and Doflamingo would be something like 1:200 or even 1:400+ due to Doflamingo being listed as being at least Small Island via scaling to Luffy.
 
Also, HF/PH is not very decisive against someone like Doflamingo given that he only reaps the physical power from his victims: http://www.***********.net/nanatsu-no-taizai/144/20

Doflamingo has shown capable of utilizing his devil fruit powers while having suffered mortal injuries from earlier on and even using them while he was so weakened that he could barely walk straight: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/787/8, http://www.***********.net/one-piece/790/6, http://www.***********.net/one-piece/790/7
 
speed equalization means they start with the same base speed. it does not mean buffs or debuffs suddenly lose their effects. so regardless the starting speed, he will suffer from HF or if ban decides to prolong the fight he will suffer from PH. your comparison with luffy doesnt work because it was only luffy who got faster - whereas in bans case its both: ban gets faster and luffy gets slower at the same time, meaning he loses on both ends of the stick

there is a new calculation out / and accepted which put the commandments at small island level at 3 GT, performed by a base commandment depending how galan gets scaled to it, the difference in physical prowess vanishes and even gets in bans favour since his HF stole 2 small island characters at once on top of an entire town of people, meaning he will have no trouble draining doflamingo to his fullest. either way fox hunt should be no problem. i dont know if doflamingo can survive without a heart

regarding your theory with his DF - do you imply it is unaffected by the physical condition doflamingo is in? tho even if, it doestn change the outcome - especially since doflimango, as many have mentioned, lacks the necessary methods to kill ban
 
@Raven -- which 3GT calc? I believed that the calculation I requested for Gloxina (which is the only new calc I am aware of) resulted in higher.

Gloxina's feat is actually 4.15 GT on the high end. The low end is Mountain, but I do agree that the commandments are Small Island either way (With a few exceptions ranging from Mera to the ghost-looking one).

It doesn't scale to base Galan. Only CO. Base galan has Mountain feats, but his CO slash was at Large Mountain.

The victory isn't resulting in the death of the opponent. It is clearly stating via "KO".
 
@Raven

If he is "Likely 7-A" with HF (should honestly be 7-A without "Likely"), he wouldn't reap much power from Doflamingo considering the gap. He would however be able to do so if Doflamingo were of a similar Tier.

Ex: He can reap over half of Base Galan's AP/Speed from him along with some of Merascylla+fodder humans+Elaine, but how much force would that amount to? I'd expect several hundred megatons (obviously not a literal statement) at most.

Doflamingo is listed as being Small Island+ via scaling to Luffy in base and Gear 4th, which is much higher than just several hundred megatons

I know I shouldn't be using that as a "power level", but I'm just trying to say that the gap between them is too large for Ban to do any reasonable damage until he happens to get a power-up.

Well, I'm wrong about "full tier difference" since Ban should comfortably sit in Mountain level due to being able to reap over half of Base Galan's power and some more from surrounding characters and humans, but compared to Doflamingo's power, Base Galan's is fairly low.

Speed is another story. Doflamingo would be outsped by Ban for the duration, but he can apply invisible armor around his body for a long period of time (considering that Luffy, a less proficient Armament haki user could apply Koka on over half of his body for 20+ minutes).

Ban can only hold HF for a few minutes. By the time it is finished, it might as well be just like when Doflamingo took that first round of Gear 4th, except he would be pretty fresh. He'd take some damage, but Ban would be incapacitated and easily KO'd.
 
one thing you however for the entire duration of this argument have not brought up is a clear way how doflamingo actually would put ban down for good - regardless the AP difference, the stamina and regenerative advantage go to the fox sin of greed. there is no denying it

incapacitated and KOd is an argument i always see popping up as some form of last straw argument in terms of ban since it never has happened. even when hunter fest runs out, the Regenerationn still works just fine. it was made clear and even stated that its separate from his magic and a unique trait of his body.

ban can outlast doflamingo without a problem.

and yet another thing has to be thought of: zero sign, which gives ban the first strike either way - and with the fight starting with a sudden HF and fox hunt combo doflamingo is put under a massive disadvantage within the first few seconds
 
Ban is not immune to being knocked unconscious as I've been saying. I acknowledged that he would not be killed. If you're looking for a 'permanent' way for Doflamingo to put him down, I guess he'd simply have to use his awakening to turn the ground below them into threads via Everwhite, cut Ban into pieces, bury him several kilometers under the ground, and simply turn it back to bedrock. He'd do it sooner or later whenever he realizes that Ban can not be killed by any normal means. The perfect time for this is whenever Ban's HF runs out and he is unable to move.

Doflamingo's AP and Durability is too massive for Ban to actually do anything serious. Ban gets the Estarossa treatment worst case. Ban is City without HF, Mountain with it while still leaving Doflamingo Small Island~Small Island+. He'd outspeed him easily while that's going on, but will he deal significant damage? Absolutely not if Doflamingo has half a brain and defends himself with haki, which a Small Island character like Base Luffy can't effectively break through despite his best efforts.

Zero Sign vs Pre-cognition (though obviously the pre-cognition's effects would be mitigated considerably since part of it relies on detecting the opponent's presence, which Ban will keep practically invisible while in Zero Sign -- Doflamingo can still detect if he is about to take damage, however). He'd get a hit in, but such a tactic would immediately make Doflamingo's guard shoot up.

Ban would not be able to do more than moderately harm Doflamingo in an extended fight even if Doflamingo remained cocky.
 
can you show me an instance where ban was knocked out? because i dont recall any instance. he may explode into a pulp but he keeps coming back. this is how his trait has been played out in the manga.

however your statement regarding how doflamingo could deal with him gave me a good laugh. its obviously not working. for once the entire scenario is so bizzarre that is almost reaches NLF territory (turning the ground to threads? has he ever done this? why not at dressrosa? cutting ban to pieces? what do you expect ban to do? stand there and "not" regenerate? bury him kilometers under the ground? and ban can not break out being buried?)

your point with the difference in AP is also something i object after having checked the power scaling in NNT. ban should not be " likely 7a" as he is currently listed but "high 7a" scaling from a very casual monspiet. which would give ban and his HF even more of a shot.

if we consider all things there is little for doflamingo to gain here as time and scaling passes.

regarding zero sign and precog - has doflamingo used his haki for precoging things previously? because we cant scale one characters haki to another characters haki that easily like we can do with AP and dura
 
@RavenSupreme - Okay, that's it, you're saying Ban wins when you're seemingly unaware of Doflamingos awakening capabilities? And you have the gull to passively insult my statement? Don't even start.

Let's begin with answering all of your questions:

1) Yes, he can turn the ground to threads and he has shown this for several chapters against Luffy: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/785/8, http://www.***********.net/one-piece/785/16, http://www.***********.net/one-piece/790/6 -- just FYI, his range with his threads reaches dozens of kilometers via Overheat, Birdcage, Spiderthread, Sky road, and those are not his awakened powers. His awakening turned a huge chunk of Dressrosa into threads while he was fighting Luffy. He did this while focusing on repairing his destroyed Organs.

2) I do expect Ban to take the slashes especially after he is incapacitated by his own ability and is unable to move. He can only use HF within a small radius as compared to Doflamingo's thread power, which has streched over dozens of kilometers. Ban doesn't INSTANTLY REGENERATE unless you want to argue that ridiculous BS (saying that Doflamingo's ability is NLF? No). In the instant he is sliced apart, Doflamingo can simply take him underground far enough to the bedrock and leave his body there, where he would not be able to escape. Wanna know why? He would not be able to move a single finger or completely regenerate when his body is put inside of bedrock many many kilometers under the ground.

3) ^ so no, Ban will never escape unless you want to suggest his City level (Can't use HF when he is way beyond his ability radius when that far under ground) physical abilities can effortlessly lift billions+ of tons.

Ban doesn't scale to Monspeit. Ban only scales to Base Galan, who he can become more than HALF as powerful, which is STILL Mountain level. Doflamingo would remain Small Island+. Ban should only be 7-A via scaling to Base Galan, who should honestly, as you said in the other thread, be around the High 7-A area.
 
take a chill pill my friend. we are discussing multiple topics at once and the atmosphere has been friendly and respectful. we dont want to through that overboard. no one is having any "gull" to "passively insult" anyone here. when you make up a scenario which appears to be so random you have to be prepared that people chuckle a little. close your eyes. take a deep breath. everything is cool.

now that this is settled lets move on to the topic:

1: turning the ground to threads - overlooked it apparently.

2. ban regenerates even when temporarily left with no power as the aftermath of PH / HF this was shown in the manga. regardless how doflamingo cuts him - he will regenerate automatically.

-> instant Regenerationn - while the word instantly gets overabused bans Regenerationn is likely as fast as doflamingo damages him - regenerating the entire upper torso including all organs and limbs within seconds is no joke

-> "saying that doflamingos ability is NLF" if a person has never showed the feat to create a hole, slice people into different pieces, bury said pieces multiple kilometers under the ground, close the hole again but you state he can "simply" do that you have to expect people to question your scenario

3. every small town / town level character can basically crawl through the earth....

4. base galan scales to monspiet. the fact that ban stole half of this power and added it on his own alongside merascylla, elaine, jericho and lots of fodders before reaching his limit whereas here he only has to focus on a single person means he is well in the high-7a region as well

-> like in the current chapter where his HF was way beyond the level it was in the fight with galan

can you also answer the point with precog from doflamingo?

and - i may sound repetive but i was surprised to see it so i say it again: calm down man
 
I'm literally raging because of this fight and that someone refuses to waver from the opinion that Grimmjow wrecks Zoro... just NO.
 
^ i dont want to be rude but it seems like you are angry because someone isnt agreeing to your opinion :/

if that is the thing than i can only say that you will need a lot of "calming down"-medicine since every discussion has two sides not agreeing while trying to convince the opposition, but sometimes it is simply better use the "agree to disagree" card ^_^
 
I keep reading from Raven about "Doflamingo not having a way to 'permanently' put Ban down", of course he doesn't when Ban is immortal (no known way to permanently kill him) and if KO is being disregarded due to "it never being shown" despite him being shown capable of going unconscious (after HF vs Galan) in the vault inside of Escanor's bar: http://www.***********.net/nanatsu-no-taizai/148/13, http://www.***********.net/nanatsu-no-taizai/148/18 = when he woke up.

Of course I'm going to become angry when "Ban can be KO'd" is suddenly being thrown straight out of the window. I even brought up that Ban being trapped FAR underground inside of the bed-rock is also a possibility due to Doflamingo being capable of turning the ground to threads, having a pretty large range with it, and if Ban is Incapacitated after HF, Doflamingo simply needs to bury him and rip him apart before turning the threads back into its normal state: being bedrock.

Ripping his body apart, placing it in bedrock where I believe Ban wouldn't be able to properly regenerate (due to his body pretty much being caked in between the ground after being forcibly being ripped to several pieces), and leaving him there should do the trick especially since HF against an opponent of Doflamingo's level would leave Ban immobile only after a few minutes of fighting.

I'm fine if there is a undoubtable reason as to a possible victory for Ban, but given that Doflamingo is Small Island+ while Ban is Likely Mountai (At least Mountai if my upgrades go through) with HF, I don't see it happening due to him being very very unlikely to beat Doflamingo in mere minutes due to Doflamingo's ability to use Armament haki more proficiently than someone like Luffy, who could hold Koka on most of his body for 20+ minutes and that Doflamingo's Durability is still much higher than Ban's AP. Doflamingo can also fly via threads in order to avoid a head-to-head confrontation to what would be a faster Ban in HF.
 
^and in such cases where you cant convince the opposition no matter what panels you bring up you should agree to disagree :)

btw, i agree, and not only would doffy do what you said, there is also a way for doffy to win without even KOing Ban: Parasyte!

he would take control of Bans body and thats it, should count as BFR ^_^
 
being exhausted does not equal being KO. even when he "cant lift a finger" his personal trait is still working without problems -> in this case: Regenerationn. it was shown during the PH scenario with mel and stated once the HF boost wore off.

also: your entire scenario is made up of you trying to find a way around ban - with having intel and knowledge on him. something which doflamingo does not have.

on top: nothing even remotely close to what you have described has ever happened. doflamingo did not "open holes" and "cut people to pieces" and "bury them underground" and "close the hole" again. its pure speculation from you to edge out a possibility how one could deal with ban

-> but you also ignore the fact that people on such a level can bury themselves out just fine without any problem. like i said - everyone with a small town / town energy level is better than any mole.

you as well have not answered to the entire precog / zero sign argument when i asked whether or not he has shown to use haki for actually precogning damage.

you becoming angry over someone who does not agree with you, but your "winning scenario" being made up by you in a way it was never shown to be played out like this in the slightiest with the stipulation of full knowledge on your character despite in the OP no knowledge is given while at the same time ignoring my points (burrying out, zero sign) is not for me to understand.

i assume doflamingo is one of your favourite characters, going by your avatar, and that is fine, so i am not mad at the way you formulate your reasoning since when emotional attachments are brought up in things might get a little dirty

but chill. man
 
So would this count as a win for Doffy or what? Reading through the arguments, I'm not sure what Ban is supposed to do to him other than attempt to steal his power while Doffy has means of neutralizing Ban despite the immortality thing.
 
^ I think it should be Unanimous/Seven Votes for doffy for a win.

It isn't Unanimous.

Not sure about how many votes.
 
votes i counted:

ban: gabriel, raven, superkaminappa

doffy: unclespaceman, cincameron, llamagod

inconclusive but leaning towards ban: khazzarian

changed its vote from ban to doffy: greatest sin

pretty nice duel actually
 
^There were already that many voters? anyways... (I'm also going to make an attempt to imbed links into text lol)

@Raven - HF alone does not cause Ban to become exhausted. Taking more than he was used to caused him to become immensely fatigued. For example: he used PH against Meliodas during their duel in the festival. He took just about all of Meliodas' power, which more or less doubled his own for a small window before Meliodas sent him flying out of the arena just a moment after. He wasn't using it for an extended period and he was not taking power from someone immensely more powerful than himself.

(incoming fail attempt at making imbedded text... maybe?)

When it came to using HF against Galan, he was clearly going over his limit to take enough power to overwhelm Galan (taking somewhere over half of Galan's power + some from surrounding people including Merascylla, Elaine, and Jericho), but he was gradually becoming weaker to the point in which he was weakened from dusk til daw. But I've already told you all of this, and that's not what I'm going to keep throwing at you. The point that this is for is that, Taking power from Meliodas at that time had little punishment for Ban since the power-gap between them was pretty small and he only did it for a few moments before he was defeated -- taking more than half of Galan's power for a few minutes was much more punishing.

If Doflamingo were given a window of opportunity to make attempts to kill Ban, he would clearly be going for that, but wouldn't anyone realize how useless their efforts are if they're just slicing him to bits and Ban keeps healing? I suggested KO via final strike from Doflamingo after Ban is rendered immobile to be a possibility. You wanted a 'permanent' solution, so I suggested Doflamingo to use his ability to turn the environment into threads to bury Ban's body. As Greatest Sin stated, Parasito can make it BFR especially during the point where Ban can not move, but victory is listed as by KO, unless BFR is still allowed.

I only came to the conclusion that Doflamingo would bury him since all else would fail, and KO via CoC and a physical blow while Ban is at his weakest is being considered invalid by you. If Ban is practically incapacitated by HF in the long run, Doflamingo can finish him with Haoshoku Haki and that would grant him the victory via KO. I would use BFR via thread manipulation and KO as an excuse as I have before, but since I'm not getting anywhere with you, I decided on Doflamingo burying him since he should be capable of doing so with what he has currently showcased with his power.

It's a silly question to ask, but wouldn't Ban have trouble trying to dig his way out of being caked in between bed-rock while his body is ripped apart?

PS: I'm the Doflamingo leg humper.
 
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