BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Arcker123]

Yhwach can never be defeated in cross verse:

Presumption, if a character is capable of attacking, the match is not concluded.

Argument: Yhwach can send out attacks into the far future (He attacked the soul society ten years into the future just to **** with Ichigo in chapter 679). This attack will still fire even if Yhwach is dead (happened in Manga), and is entirely independent of Yhwach's state. Even if a character can defeat Yhwach utterly, he will still be capable of attacking. Thus, he cannot be rendered incapable of attacking through death, incap, bfr, whatever.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Garganta = outer space might be my favorite “I know nothing about Bleach” take from back then. “The stars are painted on the sky” is another classic one as well, reverting back to archaic ages.

I love the scan people use to prove garganta = outer space when it's explicitly an analogy which heavily suggests the things in analogy aren't the full scope.

 

[YmTheSuper]

Garganta = outer space might be my favorite “I know nothing about Bleach” take from back then. “The stars are painted on the sky” is another classic one as well, reverting back to archaic ages.

Bleach downplayers be like some planets are made of physical matter and some others are made of spiritual matter lmao

 

[Naeblis495]

He regains his strength during the fight against Ichibei, which allows him to control the A, but his strength is not amplified when using it.

That is what was theorized with the events showned in the manga. The anime seems to change that.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

The Almighty didn’t amp Yhwach’s stats… like did yall watch the episode?
Ichigo can still cut through and halt Yhwach’s arrows and he eats a reishi explosion to the face with minimal injuries. All that changed was Yhwach’s hax enabled him to always evade all of Ichigo’s attacks and all of his attacks to land. Their bout concludes with Almighty Yhwach and TS Ichigo clashing too. There is no (significant) stat amp via the Almighty.

 

[Naeblis495]

The Almighty didn’t amp Yhwach’s stats… like did yall watch the episode?
Ichigo can still cut through and halt Yhwach’s arrows and he eats a reishi explosion to the face with minimal injuries. All that changed was Yhwach’s hax enabled him to always evade all of Ichigo’s attacks and all of his attacks to land. Their bout concludes with Almighty Yhwach and TS Ichigo clashing too. There is no (significant) stat amp via the Almighty.

Ye i did, and it's clear the anime show Almighty Yhwach stronger.

Big energy aura, far bigger than the one Base Yhwach made in this very episode, right as he activate the Almighty.
Arrows that ichigo could bitchslap with mere swordstrikes now need a GT to be broken/repelled once Almighty is active.

It maybe not be big or quantifiable, but it is CLEARLY there.

 

[KingogKings777]

Is 4D almighty back on the table since Yhwach states Reio could see everything in the three worlds?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Ye i did, and it's clear the anime show Almighty Yhwach stronger.

Big energy aura, far bigger than the one Base Yhwach made in this very episode, right as he activate the Almighty.
Arrows that ichigo could bitchslap with mere swordstrikes now need a GT to be broken/repelled once Almighty is active.

It maybe not be big, but it is CLEARLY there.

That aura explosion that Ichigo also just tanked. The only reason Qualkreis overwhelmed Ichigo the second time is because instead of being dispersed over a large area, it was all coalesced in one spot in front of him, and was able to activate faster due to Yhwach’s overall quicker ability to function given future sight. Plus Ichigo still cut through an Almighty Yhwach Qualkreis arrow with a normal sword swing, and Ichigo used a Getsuga to clash evenly with a non Almighty Yhwach arrow. People need to realize that there are factors in fights outside stats that let you dominate against characters you’re relative in power to.

Edit: but you’re conceding there’s no significant amp anyway, so I don’t feel the need to keep pressing the point.

 

[AppleLord]

I think this episode is the final nail in the coffin for downplayers. The Soul King created the entire cosmology from a primordial sea, which means no more arguments about a single universe being separated into three galaxy-level realms. Also, the planet-level argument doesn't hold up either, as he created everything. Each realm's stars, galaxies, and outer space, in general, were created by him, so claiming that his death would only destroy three planets is absurd. The death of the creator and stabilizer of everything would logically have a far greater impact than just affecting three planets across space-time.

You watched the same episode as me? Where was this even said!?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

It’s logically entailed by the keyword.

 

[Tyri456]

Unless you think ther was a pond of water randomly in outer space and he just created 3 planets from water, which is borderline ridicoulous at this point
Its pretty obvious everything originated by the sea fo water, this include garganat space dimension etc..

 

[Tyri456]

That is what was theorized with the events showned in the manga. The anime seems to change that.

the anime literally said the same as manga
after the 9 years time limit he fully regained the strenght that allow him to use the Almighty

 

[Naeblis495]

That aura explosion that Ichigo also just tanked. The only reason Qualkreis overwhelmed Ichigo the second time is because instead of being dispersed over a large area, it was all coalesced in one spot in front of him, and was able to activate faster due to Yhwach’s overall quicker ability to function given future sight. Plus Ichigo still cut through an Almighty Yhwach Qualkreis arrow with a normal sword swing, and Ichigo used a Getsuga to clash evenly with a non Almighty Yhwach arrow. People need to realize that there are factors in fights outside stats that let you dominate against characters you’re relative in power to.

Edit: but you’re conceding there’s no significant amp anyway, so I don’t feel the need to keep pressing the point.

All i meant to say is that the anime clearly want to show a difference in power between base and almighty. Otherwise, the aura collumn made right after he activate it wouldn't be so much bigger than the one made by base Yhwach. The anime wouldn't do such things for no reasons.

I was never saying it was worthy of a tier change/tier jump or anything of the like. Just that it was there.

 

[Hellscream]

Quincy abilities are badass asf

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

All i meant to say is that the anime clearly want to show a difference in power between base and almighty. Otherwise, the aura collumn made right after he activate it wouldn't be so much bigger than the one made by base Yhwach. The anime wouldn't do such things for no reasons.

I was never saying it was worthy of a tier change/tier jump or anything of the like. Just that it was there.

The anime wanted to convey that Yhwach with the Almighty is a far more dangerous opponent not that he got a stat amp*

 

[Naeblis495]

The anime wanted to convey that Yhwach with the Almighty is a far more dangerous opponent not that he got a stat amp*

That make no sense to me to use aura then, wich are usually used to represent pure power . Him just starting to dominate Ichigo would be far more than enough to show the hax of the Almighty.

 

[Kachon123]

The anime wanted to convey that Yhwach with the Almighty is a far more dangerous opponent not that he got a stat amp*

What's the correlation between pillar size and danger?

 

[Excellence616]

Peak Episode

• Foreshadowing of Silver Arrow
• Kubo removing True Shikai = Mugetsu (that never made sense to me)
• Clear showing/explaining of Soul King feat
• Cool animation and goated battle (still not on Episode 6)
• The creative use of The Getsugas
• Soul King's name revealed
• New lore
• Yhwach being older than the Bleach cosmos

Kubo and Pierrot Films really cooked with this episode. They even partnered with another studio.

 

[Excellence616]

Ichigo really needs haxes. He needs it and deserves it.


I love how this episode shut the mouths of Bleach downplayers

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

That make no sense to me to use aura then, wich are usually used to represent pure power . Him just starting to dominate Ichigo would be far more than enough to show the hax of the Almighty.

What's the correlation between pillar size and danger?

It’s accompanying an activation of an ability. Hax in Bleach utilize spirit energy as well, this ain’t dragon ball where every thing unga bunga AP. At best you have an AoE fallacy, at worst your conceding to no Almighty Yhwach > Almighty Yhwach, since his Zankt Bogen had a bigger eruption of spirit energy contradicting your argument anyway.

 

[Kachon123]

What's the correlation between pillar size and danger?

Eh nvm

EDIT: lol

 

[Naeblis495]

It’s accompanying an activation of an ability. Hax in Bleach utilize spirit energy as well, this ain’t dragon ball where every thing unga bunga AP. At best you have an AoE fallacy, at worst your conceding to no Almighty Yhwach > Almighty Yhwach, since his Zankt Bogen had a bigger eruption of spirit energy contradicting your argument anyway.

If it was an attack sure, aoe fallacy. But here it's just an aura flex, and it became 10x bigger than when base Yhwach did the same. And no, not arguing for a x10 Ap based on aura size.

 

[Tyri456]

Yhwach base now is strong enough to scale to the Almighty, its pretty clearly stated
Almighty is an hax that can be used if he is strong enough.

 

[SlendVeny]

I can't stop saying Qualkries, it's so fun

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

 

[SlendVeny]

Am I meant to believe these mfs can't fly after this episode?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

So something interesting about this episode, when Shutara shakes the three worlds with her power, everyone (Rukia Ganju etc) can sense her reiatsu and explicitly reference it. But when it comes to Reio shaking the three worlds and when it comes to Ichigo and Yhwach’s final clash shaking the three worlds, no one knows what the cause is, being forced to speculate based on the observed effects. Given that at least the signature of Ichigo and Yhwach’s reiatsu should be familiar to people in the Gotei 13, it seems that Nugget King’s, full power TS Ichigo’s, and post 9 years of strength Yhwach’s reiatsu likely wasn’t sensible.

Also, I was wrong, Rukia doesn’t say that Ichigo and Yhwach’s shaking = Shutara’s shaking, she merely states that because of the reiatsu she felt from Shutara that shook things before, she could safely conclude that Squad 0 used their Bankai. And Rukia only says that it’d be nice if it were just Shutara’s Bankai aftershocks, as the alternative conclusion (that something bad is happening to Reio) is an unfavorable conclusion. So, TS Ichigo fans might have some hopium, but the fact remains that the TS > Dangai/Mugetsu statement was removed, so there’s no solid connective scaling between the two now. We will have to wait and see more from the God tiers to get a better grasp on their scaling between each other.

 

[Bastolan27]

The fact that Ichigo had to be the one to kill the Soul King due to his hybrid nature recontextualizes why he's the only one who can kill Yhwach. Zangetsu, a sword made of all races' powers, was the only weapon capable of defeating him. It's also poetic because only Soul King candidates can kill the Soul King. This implies that no matter what, Current Aizen cannot kill Yhwach, which might be why he creates an opening for Ichigo instead of trying to take Yhwach down himself. It also suggests that the Soul King has a superior form of immortality, which would apply to Soul King Yhwach as well.

By the way, I finally have a positive K/D (message to like ratio), so don’t be stingy—give me a few likes so I don’t lose it after a few posts!

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Everyone remove your likes from his posts hurry

 

[Excellence616]

Ichigo having flashbacks of past and was surprised maybe foreshadowing something (Almighty Ichigo)

 

[Hellscream]

Nah almighty ichigo is something that's definetly not happening, it was just the soul king testing whether he was worthy to be the next lich pin if it came to it, making him carry the weight that he's carrying etc

 

[Ped2018]

Please Kubo don't let that bullshit ass form (Dangai) be Ichigo's second strongest formhttps://media.**********.net/attachments/1112893577257832572/1294789911538307072/football-tears.gif?ex=670c4a92&is=670af912&hm=872b22e6a9b42482ad6dd4ac639b0ff4a6e49b4179e1eec8a7395788485f1a65&

 

[Tyri456]

Mh I thought the shaking we see at the start was because Reio was injured by Yhwach.

 

[zylieo]

Please Kubo don't let that bullshit ass form (Dangai) be Ichigo's second strongest formhttps://media.**********.net/attachments/1112893577257832572/1294789911538307072/football-tears.gif?ex=670c4a92&is=670af912&hm=872b22e6a9b42482ad6dd4ac639b0ff4a6e49b4179e1eec8a7395788485f1a65&

It will be tho

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Mh I thought the shaking we see at the start was because Reio was injured by Yhwach.

It is. The shaking that happens after the keywords is Ichigo and Yhwach.

 

[Zezu1995]

can someone tell me if we have a topic open for all the raw details we see in the episodes?

 

[AppleLord]

So something interesting about this episode, when Shutara shakes the three worlds with her power, everyone (Rukia Ganju etc) can sense her reiatsu and explicitly reference it. But when it comes to Reio shaking the three worlds and when it comes to Ichigo and Yhwach’s final clash shaking the three worlds, no one knows what the cause is, being forced to speculate based on the observed effects. Given that at least the signature of Ichigo and Yhwach’s reiatsu should be familiar to people in the Gotei 13, it seems that Nugget King’s, full power TS Ichigo’s, and post 9 years of strength Yhwach’s reiatsu likely wasn’t sensible.

Also, I was wrong, Rukia doesn’t say that Ichigo and Yhwach’s shaking = Shutara’s shaking, she merely states that because of the reiatsu she felt from Shutara that shook things before, she could safely conclude that Squad 0 used their Bankai. And Rukia only says that it’d be nice if it were just Shutara’s Bankai aftershocks, as the alternative conclusion (that something bad is happening to Reio) is an unfavorable conclusion. So, TS Ichigo fans might have some hopium, but the fact remains that the TS > Dangai/Mugetsu statement was removed, so there’s no solid connective scaling between the two now. We will have to wait and see more from the God tiers to get a better grasp on their scaling between each other.

Is too early to claim the speech was removed. Next episode may start with another speech from Yhwach and applied it at that point.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

can someone tell me if we have a topic open for all the raw details we see in the episodes?

What do you mean?

 

[Tyri456]

"I will eventually reach the horizon of the truth and will replace the linchpin. I will stand in heaven, not manipulated by others into becoming a sacrifice, but of my own volition."

CFYOW II - Aizen

If Aizen wants, the Hogyoku can make him replace Reio altogether.

“It was about why Kisuke Urahara had made a Hogyoku in order to strengthen the limits of a konpaku...
So had he wanted to create a konpaku that was as powerful as the Reio's?”

CFYOW II

Hogyoku doesnt solely, grants you the quality to replace the Reio but also the strength (if you have potential)
Current Aizen maybe doesnt care about replacing it, so that’s why he still looks like a shinigami but Aizen’s soul/powers are still beyond Reio’s level.

 

[Zezu1995]

What do you mean?

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