- 2,889
- 1,789
I thought that was in terms of brain power?
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion
- Thread starter Zoro21043
- Start date
- 2,889
- 1,789
- 4,038
- 4,507
- 2,954
- 1,440
They can probably get incorp
- 10,291
- 17,318
The amount of Bleach fans Nintendo switch soy facing about the Aizen statement is staggering.
CodeCCLL
He/Him- 1,517
- 674
Zanpakutos are not Abstract Existences. Abstract Existence is the ability to embody an abstraction, such as a concept, thought, information,rumors,possibilities.
- 2,954
- 1,440
Base Ulq was about to slam kisuke and even swatted his attack. Common sense will tell you he doesn't scale to aizen
- 1,437
- 172
You misunderstood my point. Zanpakutos are representations of the Shinigami's powers, being also a part of his essence. They are not physical, they are representation of an essence. Zangetsu is a perfect example.
- 13,523
- 5,675
They very clearly are physical … to spirits anyway.
- 1,625
- 1,112
databook, Ichigo vs grimmjow, it is stated that by increasing his spiritual pressure Ichigo raised his attack, speed and defense
- 2,954
- 1,440
False equivalence yourichi had anti hiero weapons which amped her ap massively plus a shunko amp on top of that.
Your basically saying kisuke grew 100s of times within a course of a few mouths. Soul reaper growth rates are not that massive. Your acting as if aizen and ulq didn't get stronger either within that time frame
- 17,044
- 22,911
It's almost like theres a time skip between that and the Aizen fight, characters can get stronger over time, Urahara from months ago doesn't limit the present Urahara. Think for a second
- 1,797
- 243
Speculations like these are what creates unncecessary powercreeps that don't actually exist.There's actually isn't much evidemce that Kisuke got massively stronger. The Aizen statement is already contradictory and is possibly just misinterepreted.
Then there's thd hell arc where it is implied that pre Hogyoku Aizen's reiatsu >>> current captains. If the whole balance thing is true.
CFYOW Shunsui and Yoruichii are somewhat comfirmed to be still below Yama and FKT Aizen despite the time gap.
Barragan is stated to be above Grimmjow twice in CFYOW.
Going by your logic i can also say that Ulquiorra during HM/FKT arc >>> Ulquiorra from the time he encountered Kisuke.
Same rules can applied to everyone including Aizen , Ulq ,Yammy etc...
Last edited:
- 13,523
- 5,675
Your reasoning contradicts itself. You say that Aizen’s statement doesn’t hold water as other statements/feats go against it yet you proceed to argue that Baraggan > Novel Grimm despite half a dozen lines of scaling saying the exact opposite without any counter arguments.
You also bring up the point that Aizen’s statement is possibly misinterpreted while simultaneously misinterpreting Kisuke’s attack getting slapped away by Ulq as evidence Kisuke would lose even though Kisuke explains in that very scene that he is throwing out an attack equal to Yammy’s. No shit Ulq can backhand Yammy’s tier like it’s nothing, we literally see it happen right after.
If you are going to debate the reasoning behind a point, don’t employ that same reasoning in your own.
Edit: Just realised Reio made one of the posts I thought was from you. Ignore the second paragraph.
- 98
- 10
is there another mention? Do you have the scans
- 10,291
- 17,318
I'm deadass gonna make an entire bible about this ******* Aizen statement, i genuinely hate how it's used by scalers, acting like it only has one inherently true interpretation when it doesn't.
- 1,625
- 1,112
the whole manga? Just look at Gentei kaijo where character shown to be faster and stronger after the release of spiritual pressure, or just look at bankai zaraki, gerard said he increased spiritual pressure after bankai, and he was blitzing and one shotting him, more reiastu = more stats unless specific case like yammy who became huge ass thing.
- 1,797
- 243
Both are different cases . In Grimmjow's case he's directly stated to be below Barragan in power. If the same novel you use to scale Grimm says Barragan is stronger then Barragan is stronger and he would logically scale above Grimmjow's feats. There are also no actual statements that contradict this unlike the Aizen one .Aizen was undergoing an evolutionary process and was becoming a being different from a Shinigami. You can interepret in multiple ways.
Aizen's statement in his cocoon form can be interpreted as him saying they're not in the same realm of Shinigami anymore as Aizen went beyond Shinigami , like Tyri456 said.
Or
It's been 100 years since both of them met and talked to each other. So it could interepreted as they were once equals (could be a moment ago , years ago) and now they're not.
Last edited:
- 1,032
- 722
Pretty sure the old eyepatch was equal to a bankai/Ress and this one absorbs 10x moreI tagged Arc on Discord but I'll post it here too just in case.
Kenpachi currently does not have a multiplier for his eyepatch, however Fullbring arc Kenpachi and onwards should get at least a x10 multiplier via his new eyepatch.
Ovy7
He/Him- 2,516
- 2,120
Those gauntlets where there to protect Yoruichi from the impact against Hiero, to prevent her breaking her bones like it happened against Yammy, not to amp her punches. It's literally the same principle as why boxers use gloves.
Dude, Byakuya grew from SS Bankai Ichigo's lvl to ******* Espada 0 level in 1 month. A reminder that base Grimmjow was bitchslapping that Bankai Ichigo like some 5yo. Your entire point gets completely annihilated by the manga itself showing multiple Shinigami doing insane power growth in the same timeframe as Urahara.
Not to mention Urahara's own feats against Aizen, like piercing throw him with Kido like it's butter.
Undre, what manga are you reading? Aizen himself stated numerous times that he had reached the power ceiling for a Shinigami, and couldn't get higher. That's why he created the Hougyoku, to break through that ceiling and transcend.
Ulquiorra is a no-point, there's 0 stuff pointing toward him going stronger or weaker throughout the Arrancar arc.
- 1,797
- 243
An off Guard Aizen who was conversing with Isshin and Ichigo.
Same with Urahara. There's 0 stuff pointing him going stronger or weaker.
- 1,797
- 243
Also Aizen still had room to improve. In SS arc he could only cast kurohitsugi at barely 1/3rd of it's power. But can do better kurohitsugi in TYBW
- 10,291
- 17,318
I've decided to not make an entire bible as that seemed really gay, so i'll just condense my thoughts.
My entire contention with Aizen's statement isn't with the statement itself, rather people's need to assert this objectively vague statement to only have one valid interpretation, when that, in my opinion, isn't the case.
Aizen saying "though our powers are no longer equal" doesn't inherently assert nor imply that he's referencing his strongest Shinigami form, as in the form which reached the barriers of Shinigami power, that's objectively true given the sentence structure. You can assume such, and use deductive inferences to make a probability claim. Which i'm entirely fine with, but the incessant need to say or act like there's only one valid interpretation is absurd given the statement itself doesn't agree with that interpretation.
Within a vacuum, the claim which asserts Aizen's referencing, say his lieutenant form we see in turn back the pendulum, being equal in strength with Urahara, but after training and reaching his natural max potential he became stronger is equally true to the claim which states he's referencing the version of himself which reached his natural max potential, they're both equally true when examined in a vacuum because the statement is vague in context. It doesn't explain nor imply which version of Aizen is being referenced, it's just a general statement about Urahara being = to Aizen, but after either through training, the hogyoku or both, Aizen became stronger then Urahara, that's it.
That's my gripe with the Aizen statement.
My entire contention with Aizen's statement isn't with the statement itself, rather people's need to assert this objectively vague statement to only have one valid interpretation, when that, in my opinion, isn't the case.
Aizen saying "though our powers are no longer equal" doesn't inherently assert nor imply that he's referencing his strongest Shinigami form, as in the form which reached the barriers of Shinigami power, that's objectively true given the sentence structure. You can assume such, and use deductive inferences to make a probability claim. Which i'm entirely fine with, but the incessant need to say or act like there's only one valid interpretation is absurd given the statement itself doesn't agree with that interpretation.
Within a vacuum, the claim which asserts Aizen's referencing, say his lieutenant form we see in turn back the pendulum, being equal in strength with Urahara, but after training and reaching his natural max potential he became stronger is equally true to the claim which states he's referencing the version of himself which reached his natural max potential, they're both equally true when examined in a vacuum because the statement is vague in context. It doesn't explain nor imply which version of Aizen is being referenced, it's just a general statement about Urahara being = to Aizen, but after either through training, the hogyoku or both, Aizen became stronger then Urahara, that's it.
That's my gripe with the Aizen statement.
- 29,892
- 25,063
Well said Deceived.
I'd be very surprised if some people tried to seriously assert that Urahara = Aizen at his peak prior to the Hogyoku. That wouldn't make a whole lot of sense considering Aizen's motivations or Gin's statements.
I'd be very surprised if some people tried to seriously assert that Urahara = Aizen at his peak prior to the Hogyoku. That wouldn't make a whole lot of sense considering Aizen's motivations or Gin's statements.
- 1,797
- 243
Which is why i said that Urahara should not be scaled to FKT Aizen. Considering how vague that statement is and there are multiple statements and feats that contradict the interpretation used here.
- 1,797
- 243
Also Gin refers to FKT Aizen having no equals.
- 1,981
- 1,599
- 2,954
- 1,440
I think Aizen still considered kisuke a threat pre hogyoku fusion. Not based on his power but his abilities and gadgets. This is also the reason yhwach considered him threat. So the statement can just be interpreted as kisuke with his gadgets and abilities could take down aizen rather him matching aizen in raw power.
Tbh i don't think vice captain aizen is equal to kisuke either. Tessai the was the best kido user in ss and acknowledge the fact aizens kido abilities are far above his own. Even in cfyow it's stated tessai and kisukes kido abilities are about equal to one another and aizens being on whole different level
- 98
- 10
do you have prints? Thanks for the answers
- 17,044
- 22,911
A) it’s on the GT profiles B) you can’t prove the Shinigami input to canon output is 1:1
- 22,572
- 13,837
Is there a way to resist past insertion in bleach or all you can do is just do your best to avoid getting stabbed
- 2,954
- 1,440
Yukio via putting a virus in his own past. Tsukishkima cutt into yukios past but do to the virus it back fired on him. Which allow yukio to control tsukishkima.
The canon didn't amp their attacks if that's what your trying to say. The novels stated it was just all their spiritual pressure.
Last edited:
- 22,572
- 13,837
this is from tv tropes so i don't think it could be an actual weakness that we can put on his profile
As powerful as Book of the Ends is, Tsukishima can only insert himself into a specific memory for someone, which leaves memories not related to that point the same. As a result, if he inserts himself into someone's past without accounting for that, he can still be fought even if he invokes Fighting Your Friend. When he inserts himself as Byakuya's mentor, Byakuya grievously wounds him anyway because Tsukishima didn't account for Byakuya's Character Development towards Ichigo, meaning Byakuya still saw him as an enemy and thus could muster the will to fight him.
As powerful as Book of the Ends is, Tsukishima can only insert himself into a specific memory for someone, which leaves memories not related to that point the same. As a result, if he inserts himself into someone's past without accounting for that, he can still be fought even if he invokes Fighting Your Friend. When he inserts himself as Byakuya's mentor, Byakuya grievously wounds him anyway because Tsukishima didn't account for Byakuya's Character Development towards Ichigo, meaning Byakuya still saw him as an enemy and thus could muster the will to fight him.
