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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

ShieldsPlus said:
Kukui really did take his time writing a lengthy reply there. It even spans 2 posts!

@Arc7Kuroi @IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 Seems like you two have some serious work ahead. It's going to be tough to make a rebuttal to what he just said.
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I haven't read the article of kukui yet, but I don't think anyone except staff will agree.As with all their arguments so far, they are bad and empty arguments that anyone who knows the series will say no.
 
ShieldsPlus said:
Kukui really did take his time writing a lengthy reply there. It even spans 2 posts!

@Arc7Kuroi @IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 Seems like you two have some serious work ahead. It's going to be tough to make a rebuttal to what he just said.
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Everything he said is either an assumption or a “what if” question that contradicts the lore and bends the truth. I could formulate an argument like that to downgrade any series and drag things for eternity.
 
Still don't get the timeframe argument for universal destruction. Why is a couple minutes max too long for universal collapse??? from what I'm reading here if you don't destroy it instantly or a few seconds you can't get this rating.
 
Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye said:
Still don't get the timeframe argument for universal destruction. Why is a couple minutes max too long for universal collapse??? from what I'm reading here if you don't destroy it instantly or a few seconds you can't get this rating.
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I do address this in my post. But basically you could apply a timeframe of 1 million years and still be 3-B. So in terms of universal scale the timeframe doesn't make a big tiering difference lol.
 
The time frame is uber exaggerated, nowhere is it stated that it would take over an extensive amount of time, nor is that remotely insinuated. At max the destruction can be portrayed to be a few minutes long.




Let's also ignore the fact that Yhwach himself has a Low 5-B feat casually amongst all the multipliers, and the creation of the Garanta is now just High 6-A apparently.
 
Do I need to bring up the post? I stated before that the reason damage wanted to remove Ichigo’s palace speed was to remove that Yhwach feat. No timeframe. No feat. After the downgrades are integrated they are going after Senna, so watch out Senna fans. The only feat that will remain valid will be Gremmy’s meteor.
 
When you type damn near 18 pages worth of a final reply (and you haven't seen IMade's yet).... I did not expect to have to write this much tbh.
 
Arcker123 said:
If only we waited for the anime to come out, then all of this time frame stuff could’ve been avoided
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Do you think that the anime would be considered canon here? If it is an adaptation then it's sort of a controversial topic since adaptations generally aren't considered canon to the manga and are considered separate canon most of the time.
 
ShieldsPlus said:
Do you think that the anime would be considered canon here? If it is an adaptation then it's sort of a controversial topic since adaptations generally aren't considered canon to the manga and are considered separate canon most of the time.
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Why shouldn't we use the animated version of the same feat for timeframe, I think I've seen other calcs using anime time frame
 
Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye said:
Still don't get the timeframe argument for universal destruction. Why is a couple minutes max too long for universal collapse??? from what I'm reading here if you don't destroy it instantly or a few seconds you can't get this rating.
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What is the maximum amount of time for universal destruction before it become unquantifiable
 
Also, what's the proof that yhwach and soul king sustain the realms with the almighty, Mimihagi doesn't have the almighty and he could sustain them, and so could yhwach's corpse
 
M11UTD said:
Tbh I don't get this only staff thing, I can understand a calc members only thread because it's mainly just discussing the math. But I don't see how is it good when the main topic is about the lore, and how is a staff who never read the series is better than a knowledgeable member.
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I never got the point of staff only threads, they aren't exactly any sort of authority as far as credibility and knowledge on verses go. The majority of the staff have little to no understanding of Bleach, and you cannot have people agreeing to such a controversial CRT without having read the majority of the source material. Because even with a explanation they won't have the same level of knowledge as people who've read all the source material.



Honestly I think a lot of time would have been saved if the thread was just made as a normal CRT thread and invite several staff members into it. (By the way Devil May Cry got bumped from 6-C to 3-A, then to Low 2-C which is way worse than Bleach's tier jump yet a staff CRT was never made.)
 
Jump of tier is not even an argument and he still keep repeat that because it is only argument he can use, even jumping from 4B to 3A like dragonball, has the same meaning to jump from planet to universal, because planet and solar are extremely close in terms of energy compared to an universal energy output. Its just math.
Xenoblade charachters jump to from planet to universal too, as well as Dante that jump from mountain to universal.

The thing is that, what it is important is what the author think, he basically admitted the feat to be true, he just do not want or believe Yhwach to be universal lol.
What he should have done? destroying a star? then it would be credible? Just the existence of the soul king that created everything is enough to support. Plus how kubo explained transcendental being in Bleach is more than enough. Just throw away the mangaka intent and the lore I guess. Nobody from kwoledagble members or staff (on bleach) agree with those wrong reasons. People should really need to read the lore of Bleach to be fair.
 
LordGinSama said:
I never got the point of staff only threads, they aren't exactly any sort of authority as far as credibility and knowledge on verses go. The majority of the staff have little to no understanding of Bleach, and you cannot have people agreeing to such a controversial CRT without having read the majority of the source material. Because even with a explanation they won't have the same level of knowledge as people who've read all the source material.



Honestly I think a lot of time would have been saved if the thread was just made as a normal CRT thread and invite several staff members into it. (By the way Devil May Cry got bumped from 6-C to 3-A, then to Low 2-C which is way worse than Bleach's tier jump yet a staff CRT was never made.)
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The "several tier jump" argument is an argument from incredulity. Someone not believing massive tier jumps don't exist isn't an argument against feats.
 
I personally don't agree with Universal or Universal+ for Bleach but given the tiering system it makes sense. The tiering system is what allows for such a concept, so I don't quite see the big deal with it.



I'm still confused on the "Incredibly long timeframe" since that's never suggested, acting as if the feat took place over 30+ minutes.
 
Tbh my problem with the downgrade thread is it is arguing against things that we already accept (Such as no one scaling to god tiers)
 
How valid the words of the staff who do not know the slightest about Bleach will be. I think the words of people like me and me who read the whole series, including the novels, are not valid, but if the decision of the staff who does not know anything> will be members who know the series well, all CRTs in this wiki should be staff only because whether the members know or not, they will be the staff. Isn't that exactly why people left this wiki? I just joined the wiki, but I saw how many people left the wiki for this reason. Seems not important for wiki management.
 
Arcker123 said:
How long is too long for universal destruction
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Multiple weeks probably lol. But again, It would still be Multi galaxy even on years timeframes.
Also we never apply timeframe to feat that are displayed to be final attack like that, because it is actually portrayed to be an imminent threat by the mangaka. Like almost 3/4 of the verse that are rated universal or higher. So Yhwach Feat is fully universal.
 
Tyri456 said:
Multiple weeks probably lol. But again, It would still be Multi galaxy even on years timeframes.
Also we never apply timeframe to feat that are displayed to be final attack like that, because it is actually portrayed to be an imminent threat by the mangaka. Like almost 3/4 of the verse that are rated universal or higher. So Yhwach Feat is fully universal.
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Its only like 2 chapters before mimihagi stops the destruction
 
AKUTO123 said:
How valid the words of the staff who do not know the slightest about Bleach will be. I think the words of people like me and me who read the whole series, including the novels, are not valid, but if the decision of the staff who does not know anything> will be members who know the series well, all CRTs in this wiki should be staff only because whether the members know or not, they will be the staff. Isn't that exactly why people left this wiki? I just joined the wiki, but I saw how many people left the wiki for this reason. Seems not important for wiki management.
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Yeah but they seems to do not understand this at all, that also why I even lost my will to make those thread to upgrade some abilities for some verses, it is all useless because I already know they are gonna agree with reasons that are debunked by Imade; just because kukui give wrong reasons to support their disbelief to rate them that high.
 
what surprised me that many stuff mentioned in the OP but when someone respond to them, Kukui or other person tell him "this is irrelevant to this thread" or sth in that meaning lol
 
Arcker123 said:
Where is it stated war potentials are threats to yhwach physically
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idk tbh, he even talked about Zaraki that he was in that list because of his fighting abilities so he must be a threat to Yhwach or sth like this, while ignoring the fact that he was destroyed by that stern who copied yhwach appearance lolz
 
About kukui's eyeball "Anti feat" even if we were to accept they were low 2-C, why would the captains scale, Aizen (Who actually scales to 3-A/ low 2-C) one shots them all
 
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Also Rei-o eyeball monsters don't count as a feat for the Captains to scale to, they're just miniature piece's of Yhwach's Reiatsu, which is intangible.


Logia's in One Piece aren't getting downgraded to gun level since bullets can punch through their intangible bodies, durability is irrelevant wherever it's intangible.
 
YukaSama4 said:
idk tbh, he even talked about Zaraki that he was in that list because of his fighting abilities so he must be a threat to Yhwach or sth like this, while ignoring the fact that he was destroyed by that stern who copied yhwach appearance lolz
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I always assumed this meant threat to sternritter, not yhwach (who at this point doesn't have the almighty)
 
Arcker123 said:
I always assumed this meant threat to sternritter, not yhwach (who at this point doesn't have the almighty)
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yea Yhwach doesn't care about Kisuke's intelligence nor Icbibe's wisodm since he clearly said that countermeasures don't work against me, also he sliced yama in half who is far stronger than Zaraki, the only 2 who can be argued to be threats were Aizen and Ichigo and both were stomped by Yhwach
 
Also the Captains and Lieutenants barely did anything to the eyeball monsters, the fat guy (Omade or whatever) slapped one with his flail and even Byakuya who's the strongest one present only managed to disperse some of them, even that didn't so much to actually stop them.


Aizen even mocks them about how bad of a fight they've been putting Up. Matter of fact Aizen needed to use a Hado spell to Destroy a large amount of these Eyeball creatures.
 
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