BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[CodeCCLL]

Toshiro negs Type 3 Concepts = Toshiro has Attack Reflection Negition

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Toshiro negs Type 3 Concepts = Toshiro has Attack Reflection Negition

Yeah he does.

 

[Excellence616]

Can someone please give me the scan where they said Baragan's Respira and Coyote's Los Lobos won't work on Kenpachi?

 

[AppleLord]

Should we give Law Manipulation to Soul King? His power made the laws of the Bleach verse through the five noble houses using his power after all.

 

[Purgy]

Should we give Law Manipulation to Soul King? His power made the laws of the Bleach verse through the five noble houses using his power after all.

He has it already.

 

[SilentBob34]

I don't think it's refering to AP.

LMAO if that's the case Kenpachi had enough AP to neg Gerald. Beside Toshiro even negs CM type 3 concepts. Gerald core was not affected by that.

except Kenpachi didn’t have enough AP to neg Gerard lol. Kubo literally said that with “had he been capable of destroying it” Kenpachi isn’t a hax character

Toshiro too, his CM type 3 on his profile is listed solely for breaking Hoffnung but when it came to Gerard himself he couldn’t perform the same feat at all

 

[Myxenete]

except Kenpachi didn’t have enough AP to neg Gerard lol. Kubo literally said that with “had he been capable of destroying it” Kenpachi isn’t a hax character

Toshiro too, his CM type 3 on his profile is listed solely for breaking Hoffnung but when it came to Gerard himself he couldn’t perform the same feat at all

Simply means Gerard resists it, hopefully as indicated by his profile

 

[Excellence616]

except Kenpachi didn’t have enough AP to neg Gerard lol. Kubo literally said that with “had he been capable of destroying it” Kenpachi isn’t a hax character

He is more of resisting hax abilities.

 

[Excellence616]

Can someone please give me the scan where they said Baragan's Respira and Coyote's Los Lobos won't work on Kenpachi?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

except Kenpachi didn’t have enough AP to neg Gerard lol. Kubo literally said that with “had he been capable of destroying it” Kenpachi isn’t a hax character

Toshiro too, his CM type 3 on his profile is listed solely for breaking Hoffnung but when it came to Gerard himself he couldn’t perform the same feat at all

In Otherwords Kenpachi AP doesn't reach Gerald that's all. And even if he meets him against he gets packed up.
Also Kenpachi did had the AP enough to slip Gerald in half what you mean he didn't had enough AP ?

 

[PrettyVixenGirl]

Kinda my headcanon but i actually do think Unohana is > Base Aizen and Yama. At least physically. Part is due to the strongest statement yes, but if you think about it, if she were only talking about physical strength it wouldn't even be too outlandish as young Kenny was apparently way stronger and Unohana gave Kenpachi so many Z boosts. How many times did she kill him? No idea. We just know its alot. Something to think about though, is just how much stronger he gets after each one. Like the difference between Nnoitra fight Kenpachi and Yammy fight Kenpachi is massive.

Now i don't think his strength increased THAT much after each one, but i also can't completely rule it out. Even if the amps weren't that big, would ramp up if it happens enough. Though not all his defeats were a result of raw strength. Speed, sword mastery, and raw strength all played a part but yea. Anyway i'm not trying to change statistics but in a top strongest list i always have her above at least Base Aizen and Yama if we only consider a fight only contesting of sword fighting. Im not even going into the whole fear of Unohana or caution thing i don't think that argument is concise

 

[YukaSama4]

She is weaker than both, the discussion was about Kyoraku vs Unohana and till the beginning of TYBW Unohana has much much better feats + statements, after that it depends whether u think Kyoraku has gotten so much stronger at the last invasion or he is still around the same level

 

[PrettyVixenGirl]

I think in last invasion Shunsui massively outstats unohana.

Someone posted somethin about Unohana vs Base Aizen iirc

 

[YukaSama4]

I think in last invasion Shunsui massively outstats unohana.

Someone posted somethin about Unohana vs Base Aizen iirc

Now I'm confused, do you think Kyoraku is above Unohana, Aizen and Yama?

 

[PrettyVixenGirl]

Base Aizen yes, Shikai yama yes, if we are talking last invasion shunsui. Also there is no reason to be confused i wasnt talking about Unohana vs Shunsui. Only Base Aizen and Base yama.

 

[YukaSama4]

But that's wrong though, Tokinada couldn't output Ryujin jakka flames as strong as Yama did cuz he is weaker, furthermore his KS had a weakness because his Reiatsu was much lower than Aizen, despite all of that he beat Kyoraku and Yoruichi in CFYOW.

 

[AnimesFreak2]

Either Yama or Aizen are dog walking Unohana lmfao

Like Unohana being above either of them or even comparable just makes no sense even narratively

 

[PrettyVixenGirl]

Im not really sure what to make of that considering base Bazz B is comparable to shikai yama whom should be weaker than vollstanding bazz b. Who should be weaker than gremmy, who should be weaker than elites. Inconsistency i'll go with the manga personally

 

[AnimesFreak2]

Bazz ain't comparable to Shikai Yama

Bro nearly died trying to just offset a casual attack from the man with everything he had

Plus Shikai Yama scales above most of the elites of whom bend over Bazz

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

But that's wrong though, Tokinada couldn't output Ryujin jakka flames as strong as Yama did cuz he is weaker, furthermore his KS had a weakness because his Reiatsu was much lower than Aizen, despite all of that he beat Kyoraku and Yoruichi in CFYOW.

It's kinda wrong. You know Later it was stated Aura and others didn't saw KS release from Toki. I think it's just statement for KS can be nulled by Higher Reastu but it should be immeasurable difference.

See what happened Shikai Yama vs Aizen. Despite Shikai Yama was stronger he couldn't null KS.

Shunsui is obviously stronger than Toki has a whole. It's just KS is pretty good hax that's all.

 

[That_moron2]

Bazz ain't comparable to Shikai Yama

Bro nearly died trying to just offset a casual attack from the man with everything he had

Who told you he nearly died? And who told you that he used everything he had? And who told you that Yama was casual when its made clear he's pissed af.

 

[PrettyVixenGirl]

"Bazz ain't comparable to Shikai Yama"

He only nearly died, because his power wasnt activated during the intial burst of Yama's attack. Regardless of how you wanna spin it to hype yama, he offset his flames. Meaning the potency of flames to flames is comparable. Plus this only means Shikai yama has enough ap to kill base Bazz B. It says nothing about the fact offsetting an enraged bloodlusted yama with your own, puts the attacks comparable. Simple. Cant even use the casual excuse. Plus nearly died is exaggerated.

Shikai yama cant even beat vollstanding Bazz b. So i disagree

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

"Bazz ain't comparable to Shikai Yama"

He only nearly died, because his power wasnt activated during the intial burst of Yama's attack. Regardless of how you wanna spin it to hype yama, he offset his flames. Meaning the potency of flames to flames is comparable. Plus this only means Shikai yama has enough ap to kill base Bazz B. It says nothing about the fact offsetting an enraged bloodlusted yama with your own, puts the attacks comparable. Simple. Cant even use the casual excuse. Plus nearly died is exaggerated.

Shikai yama cant even beat vollstanding Bazz b. So i disagree

Bruh by your logic Tybw Rukia > Shikai Yama

 

[YukaSama4]

It's kinda wrong. You know Later it was stated Aura and others didn't saw KS release from Toki. I think it's just statement for KS can be nulled by Higher Reastu but it should be immeasurable difference.

See what happened Shikai Yama vs Aizen. Despite Shikai Yama was stronger he couldn't null KS.

Shunsui is obviously stronger than Toki has a whole. It's just KS is pretty good hax that's all.

Nope, it's stated that the weakness was born when Tokinada used it, Aizen never had the weakness, furthermore the weakness is blatantly explained that if you have higher reiatsu than Tokinada u will neg his KS, then they mention that only 3 people at that place had higher reiatsu that Tokinada at that time and they didn't mention Kyoraku, he was never above Tokinada's level

 

[AnimesFreak2]

"Bazz ain't comparable to Shikai Yama"

He only nearly died, because his power wasnt activated during the intial burst of Yama's attack. Regardless of how you wanna spin it to hype yama, he offset his flames. Meaning the potency of flames to flames is comparable. Plus this only means Shikai yama has enough ap to kill base Bazz B. It says nothing about the fact offsetting an enraged bloodlusted yama with your own, puts the attacks comparable. Simple. Cant even use the casual excuse. Plus nearly died is exaggerated.

Shikai yama cant even beat vollstanding Bazz b. So i disagree

...Bruh

 

[PrettyVixenGirl]

You underestimate how low i put base and shikai yama on any tierlist. Bazz B is comparable in flame potency, sure yama might win the fight. Regardless thats horrible since there is a long scaling chain above that.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Nope, it's stated that the weakness was born when Tokinada used it, Aizen never had the weakness, furthermore the weakness is blatantly explained that if you have higher reiatsu than Tokinada u will neg his KS, then they mention that only 3 people at that place had higher reiatsu that Tokinada at that time and they didn't mention Kyoraku, he was never above Tokinada's level

Let me grab the scan wait. This is clearly wrong. It was pretty clearly mentioned Aura and others who didn't saw the release didn't got affected.

 

[YukaSama4]

Let me grab the scan wait. This is clearly wrong. It was pretty clearly mentioned Aura and others who didn't saw the release didn't got affected.

No lmao it's stated that Aura is one of these 3 people who had a higher Reiatsu than Tokinada so she was able to cancel Kyoka Suigetsu

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

No lmao it's stated that Aura is one of these 3 people who had a higher Reiatsu than Tokinada so she was able to cancel Kyoka Suigetsu

She never cancelled KS. In the first place she didn't saw it's release. Of course she has more Reatsu that has nothing to do with Toki being stronger than Shunsui.

It's nowhere stated Shunsui was weaker than Toki or Toki was stronger than Shunsui.

I am checking the scans wait. I have pretty good memory regarding Ginjo , kenpachi and Aura never even saw the release in the first place.

 

[YukaSama4]

She never cancelled KS. In the first place she didn't saw it's release. Of course she has more Reatsu that has nothing to do with Toki being stronger than Shunsui.

It's nowhere stated Shunsui was weaker than Toki or Toki was stronger than Shunsui.

I am checking the scans wait. I have pretty good memory regarding Ginjo , kenpachi and Aura never even saw the release in the first place.

Had Tokinada been Aizen, he might have been able to fulfill the
conditions of having those around him see the shikai the moment it
was invoked. However, now that someone other than Aizen was
using the blade, another weakness was involved. Tokinada’s
spiritual pressure was nowhere near Aizen’s level, and because of
that, it was possible for the shikai transformation itself to be sealed
through incredibly strong spiritual pressure.
Then again, there were very few who had spiritual pressure that
exceeded Tokinada’s and who could also skillfully perform such a
feat. Because of that, he took his time creating an opening to show
the powerhouses Kyoraku and Yoruichi his shikai.
There were a limited number of people in that place who had
spiritual pressure comparable to or exceeding Tokinada’s who also
were not under the effects of Complete Hypnosis. There was Hikone
Ubuginu, Kenpachi Zaraki, Kugo Ginjo…
…and Aura Michibane.

She wasn't under it's effect you're correct, however it's literally stated that Kyoraku didn't have a higher Reiatsu than him

 

[KINGWILLTHEGREAT0815]

I don’t know why this is an argument one armed yama was confirmed the strongest member gotei 13 before start of tybw arc. He dog walks unohana and so does a base aizen they both pack her up.

 

[PrettyVixenGirl]

Bruh by your logic Tybw Rukia > Shikai Yama

Yes... Renji royal guard training... Bambietta vollstanding, Human Sajin, Vollstanding Bazz B, Gremmy, All elites, Last invasion Shunsui, Bankai Unohana, sternritter girls in vollstanding, Royal guard training Byakuya in shikai, Yoruichi with her Shunko raijin senkei and thunder cat form, Base Kenpachi (post unohana fight)

All i think are above Shikai yama and by extension base Aizen. Some are kinda pushing it like sternritter girls but they actually have better feats

 

[PrettyVixenGirl]

I don’t know why this is an argument one armed yama was confirmed the strongest member gotei 13 before start of tybw arc.

Because he is. I just dont think so in Shikai nor base.

 

[YukaSama4]

I mean since u argue that Yoruichi is above shikai Yama and by extension Kisuke should be stronger as well then you're right

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

She wasn't under it's effect you're correct, however it's literally stated that Kyoraku didn't have a higher Reiatsu than him

Well you see the moment Yoru and Shunsui is compared you can see Shunsui is one same league on Toki or possibly higher because of him not using Bankai

Now I'm confused, do you think Kyoraku is above Unohana, Aizen and Yama?

I am talking about this. Shushui is obviously Stronger than Unohana. I never tried to claim he is stronger than Aizen or Yama

 

[PrettyVixenGirl]

I mean since u argue that Yoruichi is above shikai Yama and by extension Kisuke should be stronger as well then you're right

Yes. Because he fought Askin in vollstanding. Even fighting him not in vollstanding would be sufficient.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yes... Renji royal guard training... Bambietta vollstanding, Human Sajin, Vollstanding Bazz B, Gremmy, All elites, Last invasion Shunsui, Bankai Unohana, sternritter girls in vollstanding, Royal guard training Byakuya in shikai, Yoruichi with her Shunko raijin senkei and thunder cat form, Base Kenpachi (post unohana fight)

All i think are above Shikai yama and by extension base Aizen. Some are kinda pushing it like sternritter girls but they actually have better feats

CFYOW states Toki SP doesn't even comes Close to Shikai Yama who scales way above Tybw Byakuya who scales way above Bankai Rukia.

 

[PrettyVixenGirl]

CFYOW states Toki SP doesn't even comes Close to Shikai Yama who scales way above Tybw Byakuya who scales way above Bankai Rukia.

Again Shikai yama ap doesnt scale above Bazz B. And there is a long scaling chain above that. Like i said i rather go with the manga, you can go with cfyow idc but it doesnt matter as im not trying to change statistics

 

[YukaSama4]

Well you see the moment Yoru and Shunsui is compared you can see Shunsui is one same league on Toki or possibly higher because of him not using Bankai

Yeah I think Kyoraku and Tokinada are relative to each other, both are far weaker than base Aizen

I am talking about this. Shushui is obviously Stronger than Unohana. I never tried to claim he is stronger than Aizen or Yama

I was replying to vixengirl because she said Kyoraku > Unohana then added that Unohana > Yama and Aizen so I wanted to make sure if her point is that Kyoraku > Unohana, Aizen and Yama.

Yes. Because he fought Askin in vollstanding. Even fighting him not in vollstanding would be sufficient.

Then I agree and everyone should, Kisuke is SK level obviously

 

[PrettyVixenGirl]

Blame Bazz B or blame kubo. I wont change my mind xDD