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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

KINGWILLTHEGREAT0815 said:
Even though cfyow kenpachi is stronger he has no means of permanently putting gerard down because of the miracle.

Out of the god tiers who do you think cfyow zaraki is stronger than ap wise ? because I honestly think he’s final fusion Aizen~True shikai level at best.

1.) true bankai hos Ichigo
2.) sk Yhwach
3.) muken Aizen
4.) cfyow kenpachi
5.) Soul king fragments absorbed Ikomikidomoe/full power hikone
Click to expand...
A hypothetical CFYOW no eyepatch Bankai Zaraki is top 3 in the verse AP wise.
 
KINGWILLTHEGREAT0815 said:
I know on wiki it has muken Aizen needs to be serious in order to defeat full power hikone could that statement be interpreted as Aizen just doesn’t care about fighting him?

“Ichigo Kurosaki and Kenpachi Zaraki could have, as well as Sosuke Aizen, if he actually wanted to win.”

Also can it be argued that he is somewhere around butterfly Aizen’s level due to the statement of him possessing all the qualities of the Soul king?
Click to expand...
So it's more than just that.

Ginjo is stated to have fired off a GT = Ichigo's strongest GT (which would be the one that bisected Yhwach) while amped by emotions, yet Ginjo can only possibly give Hikone a good fight. Which absolutely implies that Ginjo would need these emotion amps to fight at Hikone's level. So you have Hikone implied to be at that fatigued TB Ichigo level, which coincidentally is around the same level as Muken Aizen. So when you look at the statement that Aizen needs to fight seriously, it is very consistent to say Hikone is on that fatigued TB Ichigo/Muken Aizen level. There's a bunch of other supporting evidences throughout the novel too that you can find in my og upgrade thread.

Personally, I believe the vsbw Hikone scaling (which is my scaling, credits to calm before the storm for helping with it tho) is the most accurate. But but but if you want to lowball Hikone I think you can make an argument that he is around that Third to Fourth fusion Aizen level. I don't think he goes lower than that tho.
 
KINGWILLTHEGREAT0815 said:
I read the blog which is pretty accurate the reason I brought it up is because I seen people against the idea that Aizen needs to be serious to defeat hikone and it could be interpreted differently as to reason I gave you I was curious if there was validity to that line of interpretation.

So if you had to rank the top 5 in the verse in terms of ap who would it be in your opinion ?
Click to expand...

Not going to include the Prime SK because I think his scaling is a bit too vague (although I’d probably place him at the same caliber as peak SK Yhwach), but in terms of AP it’d go (everyone on this list would be at their hypothetical strongest):
1. Ichigo
2. Yhwach
3. Zaraki
4. Aizen
5. Hikone
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Not going to include the Prime SK because I think his scaling is a bit too vague (although I’d probably place him at the same caliber as peak SK Yhwach), but in terms of AP it’d go (everyone on this list would be at their hypothetical strongest):
1. Ichigo
2. Yhwach
3. Zaraki
4. Aizen
5. Hikone
Click to expand...
Putting Aizen below Kenpachi is crazy for me ngl and even if he was at the end of the day Aizen would grow stronger than Kenny through the Hogyoku.
 
Nah it'd make sense because Aizen is usually more focused on his zanpakuto abilities and kido assuming this is a list of raw power
 
skippy said:
Putting Aizen below Kenpachi is crazy for me ngl and even if he was at the end of the day Aizen would grow stronger than Kenny through the Hogyoku.
Click to expand...
Serious Aizen >~ Res Hikone ~ base Zaraki < Shikai Zaraki (7x) < Bankai Zaraki (5-10x)

Zaraki has the benefit of Shikai and Bankai multipliers, he still loses to Aizen in a fight but like his video game attack stat is higher
 
skippy said:
Putting Aizen below Kenpachi is crazy for me ngl and even if he was at the end of the day Aizen would grow stronger than Kenny through the Hogyoku.
Click to expand...
You never know maybe Aizen in the hell arc gets even stronger from sitting in the chair again, but hax>ap Aizen would destroy him in a fight as zaraki got no counter for kyoka suigestu and even if he didn’t use it Aizen would surpass him in ap during the fight eventually.
Arc7Kuroi said:
Not going to include the Prime SK because I think his scaling is a bit too vague (although I’d probably place him at the same caliber as peak SK Yhwach), but in terms of AP it’d go (everyone on this list would be at their hypothetical strongest):
1. Ichigo
2. Yhwach
3. Zaraki
4. Aizen
5. Hikone
Click to expand...
Speaking of that when’s the revisions coming out for the rest of the arcs?

I wonder if universal bleach ap wise will come back not via environmental destruction
 
KINGWILLTHEGREAT0815 said:
You never know maybe Aizen in the hell arc gets even stronger from sitting in the chair again, but hax>ap Aizen would destroy him in a fight as zaraki got no counter for kyoka suigestu and even if he didn’t use it Aizen would surpass him in ap during the fight eventually.

Speaking of that when’s the revisions coming out for the rest of the arcs?

I wonder if universal bleach ap wise will come back not via environmental destruction
Click to expand...
Summer time I’ll be a hell of a lot more active. Life is hectic as I’m about to graduate college -_-
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
So it's more than just that.

Ginjo is stated to have fired off a GT = Ichigo's strongest GT (which would be the one that bisected Yhwach) while amped by emotions, yet Ginjo can only possibly give Hikone a good fight. Which absolutely implies that Ginjo would need these emotion amps to fight at Hikone's level. So you have Hikone implied to be at that fatigued TB Ichigo level, which coincidentally is around the same level as Muken Aizen. So when you look at the statement that Aizen needs to fight seriously, it is very consistent to say Hikone is on that fatigued TB Ichigo/Muken Aizen level. There's a bunch of other supporting evidences throughout the novel too that you can find in my og upgrade thread.

Personally, I believe the vsbw Hikone scaling (which is my scaling, credits to calm before the storm for helping with it tho) is the most accurate. But but but if you want to lowball Hikone I think you can make an argument that he is around that Third to Fourth fusion Aizen level. I don't think he goes lower than that tho.
Click to expand...
We don't know if ginjo can constantly fight like that for all we know only that one getsuga was near TB ichigo level. Hikone is just above ginjo seeing he can put up a good fight. Naja already confirmed hikone is weaker than aizen. So he's not rel to TB ichigo at all
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Serious Aizen >~ Res Hikone ~ base Zaraki < Shikai Zaraki (7x) < Bankai Zaraki (5-10x)

Zaraki has the benefit of Shikai and Bankai multipliers, he still loses to Aizen in a fight but like his video game attack stat is higher
Click to expand...
Fair enough,but why is Shikai 7x for Kenny?
 
skippy said:
Fair enough,but why is Shikai 7x for Kenny?
Click to expand...
Because each clone gremmy makes doubles his power gremmy made 1 clone to make the meteor that was going to destroy the Seireitei kenpachi cut that meteor half in shikai effortlessly. 7 Gremmy admit that they cannot create anything Kenny can’t cut. Kenny was also able to scrap against 7 Gremmy. Gremmy later states that his imagination came up short against zaraki. So shikai kenpachi had about a 7x power jump from base.
 
KINGWILLTHEGREAT0815 said:
I know on wiki it has muken Aizen needs to be serious in order to defeat full power hikone could that statement be interpreted as Aizen just doesn’t care about fighting him?

“Ichigo Kurosaki and Kenpachi Zaraki could have, as well as Sosuke Aizen, if he actually wanted to win.”

Also can it be argued that he is somewhere around butterfly Aizen’s level due to the statement of him possessing all the qualities of the Soul king?
Click to expand...
I’ll drop what I found, with what the novel states thanks to some translator for bleach on the Reddit I find reliable for their opinion given they know context.

黒崎一護に更木剣八、確実に勝利を望むならば藍染惣右介。

the term 望むならば or Nozomunaraba doesn’t have subject because that’s how Japanese work so the subject “he” is never mentioned, heads up, On a rough level however, it simply translates into "If you want to win, then Aizen Sosuke." So I’m not saying the Viz translation is wrong, because you can translate like that if you feel like, simply is up to interpretation because they both fit. So it’s up to the context of the character and story. That’s what the translaror of bleach in Reddit told me.

that’s why the first fan translation didn’t had that part included, they simply take it, as if you want to win Aizen.. etc.

but as other said, even with this, hikone is at least 3rd fusion Aizen level.
 
Last edited:
Soul Society is its own universe. It literally uses the word for universe "uchū".

8185492-image0-8.png
8185493-image1-3.png
 
Destroying Hueco Mundo, soul society and WOTL is already 2-C garganta being infinitely above them makes it 2-C?
Bro what?
In order to be Low1-c you need to prove qualitative superiority which is done by Garganta being infinitely larger than the other universes
 
Hellscream said:
Destroying Hueco Mundo, soul society and WOTL is already 2-C garganta being infinitely above them makes it 2-C?
Bro what?
In order to be Low1-c you need to prove qualitative superiority which is done by Garganta being infinitely larger than the other universes
Click to expand...
You should prove Garganta is bigger than 2A structure not 2C structure 🗿
 
What?..
You don't need to have a 2-A structure in order to prove qualitative superiority
And even then, bleach has infinite timelines, which would make the cosmology 2-A, not even talking about garganta
 
Last edited:
Hellscream said:
What?..
You don't need to have a 2-A structure in order to prove qualitative superiority
And even then, bleach has infinite timelines, which would make the cosmology 2-A, not even talking about garganta
Click to expand...
If that create a cosmology page first proving Infinite timeline existing inside worlds
 
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