BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[W0NDER3X]

 

[Aernasilver]

Omfg I’m crying.

 

[GodOfThunder]

English subbed version

 

[skippy]

YOOOOOOOO THIS SHIT IS

 

[Malekith]

Best anime of 22/23 I don't see any other surpass it

 

[Naeblis495]

if i understood correclty it's going to be split in 4 seasons ?

 

[Maitreya12]

William Shakespeare himself would cry and kneel before Tite Kubo if he'd read and understood the complex intricacies and poetic underpinnings of Bleach.

Truly the greatest piece of fiction to ever grace this world.

Bleach honestly has the most subtlety in its writing compared to the other big three at least.

Too bad that ending will forever hold it down

Here’s hoping we get some great things come anime time.

 

[Khaostichny]

We already have 2 trailers, a date, the quality of the animation... but nothing about who will broadcast and if it will be simulcast or not. I hope there is some announcement today.

 

[Ovy7]

Viz just confirmed earlier today that it would be simulcast. We don't know by who tho...

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Bleach fans are EATING let’s ******* gooooooooo, that trailer gave me chills I’m so excited

 

[Shadyboi0]

Shit looks like a multi million dollar motion picture.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Viz just confirmed earlier today that it would be simulcast. We don't know by who tho...

Probably Disney+

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Trailer was amazing I’m so hyped

 

[Purgy]

My hopes weren't that high initially but it actually looks pretty good

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I’m glad they’re tackling it in 4 cour so we get that top tier quality for the whole show

 

[skippy]

Is the shot of Yhwach in the trailer him in Huceo Mundo? Are we going the see its Invasion?

 

[Purgy]

Has there been a thread discussing how canon the anime will be? Given that there are multiple statements even from Kubo himself that he's heavily involved in it's production and even creating new fights, I think new scenes that don't appear in the manga should be canon, as long as they aren't actually contradicting the manga.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Is the shot of Yhwach in the trailer him in Huceo Mundo? Are we going the see its Invasion?

I believe so

Has there been a thread discussing how canon the anime will be? Given that there are multiple statements even from Kubo himself that he's heavily involved in it's production and even creating new fights, I think new scenes that don't appear in the manga should be canon, as long as they aren't actually contradicting the manga.

Kubo himself has repeatedly stated his extreme involvement in production. With how involved he is, the anime should be taken as the definitive telling of the TYBW. I doubt any contradictions will arise between the two, rather it seems Kubo is just adding and further contextualizing stuff, not retconning anything. But considering his most up to date telling/viewpoint/opinion on the TYBW will be what the anime portrays, I think we should prioritize the anime. Although again, I don’t think Kubo is gonna retcon anything, more like just add new content. He was pretty adamant on the stuff he drew and wrote originally being what he wanted to draw and write back in the day.

 

[Purgy]

Kubo himself has repeatedly stated his extreme involvement in production. With how involved he is, the anime should be taken as the definitive telling of the TYBW. I doubt any contradictions will arise between the two, rather it seems Kubo is just adding and further contextualizing stuff, not retconning anything. But considering his most up to date telling/viewpoint/opinion on the TYBW will be what the anime portrays, I think we should prioritize the anime. Although again, I don’t think Kubo is gonna retcon anything, more like just add new content. He was pretty adamant on the stuff he drew and wrote originally being what he wanted to draw and write back in the day.

I disagree with that, the anime cannot be a higher canon than the source material, this is like the core of the sites canon rules

I think it's better to do what One Piece did and treat anime only scenes as canon but with the manga still taking priority if there are contradictions

As for Kubo not retconning things or the anime staff themselves doing so, I don't think you can just claim something like that ahead of time with absolutely no proof, for all we know TYBW anime could be unrecognizable to the manga at some point

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I disagree with that, the anime cannot be a higher canon than the source material, this is like the core of the sites canon rules

Difference here is that Kubo is the one writing the scripts that distinction doesn’t exist here. Kubo isn’t doing the direct animating but Kubo is still in charge of making all the executive story decisions. The anime very much can be a higher canon, let’s say Kubo does decide to change something in the anime because he didn’t like how it was portrayed in the manga, the anime adaptation of his vision would be the higher canonicity as it better reflects Kubo’s vision. Just because it’s anime doesn’t mean its inherently a lesser canon.

I think it's better to do what One Piece did and treat anime only scenes as canon but with the manga still taking priority if there are contradictions

Those two instances aren’t comparable. Oda isn’t nearly as involved in the OP anime as Kubo. If a scene is changed in the anime from manga it would have been changed because Kubo himself greenlit the change.

As for Kubo not retconning things or the anime staff themselves doing so, I don't think you can just claim something like that ahead of time with absolutely no proof, for all we know TYBW anime could be unrecognizable to the manga at some point

I never made such an objective claim I just said I doubt he will retcon anything, hence me using phrases like “I think” or “I don’t think”, a very clear indication of my speculative opinion

 

[Purgy]

Difference here is that Kubo is the one writing the scripts that distinction doesn’t exist here. Kubo isn’t doing the direct animating but Kubo is still in charge of making all the executive story decisions. The anime very much can be a higher canon, let’s say Kubo does decide to change something in the anime because he didn’t like how it was portrayed in the manga, the anime adaptation of his vision would be the higher canonicity as it better reflects Kubo’s vision. Just because it’s anime doesn’t mean its inherently a lesser canon.

Those two instances aren’t comparable. Oda isn’t nearly as involved in the OP anime as Kubo. If a scene is changed in the anime from manga it would have been changed because Kubo himself greenlit the change.

I never made such an objective claim I just said I doubt he will retcon anything, hence me using phrases like “I think” or “I don’t think”, a very clear indication of my speculative opinion

It doesn't matter if Kubo is heavily involved with the script, you literally cannot prove he wrote every single thing in it and even if you could, the canon rules blatantly say the primary canon is the source material that came first so no, the anime factually can't be a higher canon under the current canon rules.

The generally agreed-upon definition is that the work by the original author and creator of the fictional setting is canonical, unless the author or the copyright holder declares otherwise. Few other exceptions are also possible and should be noted on the verse page.

The primary canon is the source material first released (with few possible exceptions), with the other author works being secondary canon.

When different source materials give different versions of the same feat, and by that they contradict each other in the depiction of the feat, the primary canon takes precedence over the secondary canon.

If the feat is correctly depicted over multiple canons any of these can be used to judge the feat. Should different results be reached by judging the feat through multiple canons, the result of the primary canon will have priority.

So for most manga series, that means the original manga is canonical, while the anime is not (since the anime is simply an adaptation of the manga made by others). Databooks are considered secondary canon since scans tend to contradict them. It should be noted that this is often evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

It's either the anime is semi canon but the manga still takes priority or the anime isn't canon at all, nothing more, you're gonna have to change the canon rules if you want something else.

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Hopefully Kubo retcons that pathetic ending unfortunately

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

It doesn't matter if Kubo is heavily involved with the script, you literally cannot prove he wrote every single thing in it and even if you could, the canon rules blatantly say the primary canon is the source material that came first so no, the anime factually can't be a higher canon under the current canon rules.

That kind of argumentation is nonsensical. Mangaka have editors and staff that revise their work. So they don’t even inherently write every single word of their own manga. In that same vein you cannot prove they wrote every single word in their own original manga. With how much amount of statements and evidence we have that Kubo is involving himself in every aspect of the TYBW anime, especially the script writing, the anime should be considered just as canon, if not more so because it will more accurately reflect Kubo’s current vision.

It's either the anime is semi canon but the manga still takes priority or the anime isn't canon at all, nothing more, you're gonna have to change the canon rules if you want something else.

Not true, there can be by the book cases. By your logic here, an author could say the anime is the definitive experience of their story but it’d be less canon than their self admitted less definitive version. Makes no sense.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Hopefully Kubo retcons that pathetic ending unfortunately

 

[Purgy]

That kind of argumentation is nonsensical. Mangaka have editors and staff that revise their work. So they don’t even inherently write every single word of their own manga. In that same vein you cannot prove they wrote every single word in their own original manga. With how much amount of statements and evidence we have that Kubo is involving himself in every aspect of the TYBW anime, especially the script writing, the anime should be considered just as canon, if not more so because it will more accurately reflect Kubo’s current vision.

Not true, there can be by the book cases. By your logic here, an author could say the anime is the definitive experience of their story but it’d be less canon than their self admitted less definitive version. Makes no sense.

Editors don't work like that, they can suggest Kubo change things and do have leverage sure, but at the end of the day it's still down to Kubo as to what's written in the manga and the notion that Kubo was forced to alter the story for the editors is baseless, for the anime however it's literally the opposite, Kubo is more like an editor advising the director and writers on the story and they are the ones who get the final say.

According to Kubo, Ichigo vs Ulquiorra in Hellverse more accurately represented his vision, but we don't use that do we?

From what we know so far

• Kubo is very involved in the writing and animation
• There will be fights included that didn't make it into the manga

You keep saying that the anime is a more accurate representation of Kubo's vision than the manga, but I've never seen any statement like that and it would be stupid for such a statement to exist since it would completely and retroactively invalidate the manga

 

[Arcker123]

Hopefully Kubo retcons that pathetic ending unfortunately

Bleach fans have no reading comp.

you don’t understand Yhwach’s character at all not the purpose of the arrow.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Editors don't work like that, they can suggest Kubo change things and do have leverage sure, but at the end of the day it's still down to Kubo as to what's written in the manga and the notion that Kubo was forced to alter the story for the editors is baseless, for the anime however it's literally the opposite, Kubo is more like an editor advising the director and writers on the story and they are the ones who get the final say.

That’s not always the case, editors can very much exert a change in what’s written. But not my point anyhow, the point being that in both cases it is Kubo being the primary oversight in the script writing, both cases have outside influence. So your point doesn’t hold.

According to Kubo, Ichigo vs Ulquiorra in Hellverse more accurately represented his vision, but we don't use that do we?

Iirc Kubo was specifically talking about the visual depiction and animation. Nothing to do with story beats or writing. Entirely separate scenarios too, a non canon spin off movie vs a direct adaptation of the manga.

From what we know so far

• Kubo is very involved in the writing and animation
• There will be fights included that didn't make it into the manga

You keep saying that the anime is a more accurate representation of Kubo's vision than the manga, but I've never seen any statement like that and it would be stupid for such a statement to exist since it would completely and retroactively invalidate the manga

What you say at the end here relies on far too much speculation. As we haven’t seen what changes, if any, Kubo has yet to make to the original story.

At this point I’d say wait and see if we even get any “retcons” cuz for all we know, Kubo could announce if he’s going to change something. Considering he’s announced he will be adding new stuff, he could realistically say something like “I’m going to change x y or z”.

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Bleach fans have no reading comp.

you don’t understand Yhwach’s character at all not the purpose of the arrow.

U are a smoothbrain, I’m talking about the huge rushed timeskip after Ichigo cuts Yhwach

But the arrow is plot BS too nonetheless

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Bleach fans are almost as bad as One Piece fans, in that they literally can’t accept any criticism about the show without having an aneurysm and breaking into tears

 

[skippy]

Other production companies were pissed as a cast of 80 voice actors gathered for Tybw voice recording

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

U are a smoothbrain, I’m talking about the huge rushed timeskip after Ichigo cuts Yhwach

But the arrow is plot BS too nonetheless

Uh what was wrong with the showing of the characters when they're older?

People still don't understand the significance in Uryu and Stil Silver being necessary to defeat Yhwach despite it being told to us multiple times throughout the arc, crazy.

 

[Arcker123]

Bleach fans are almost as bad as One Piece fans, in that they literally can’t accept any criticism about the show without having an aneurysm and breaking into tears

:Copium:

Asking people if they even understand what they’re criticizing isn’t a bad thing. Actual projection.

I’m talking about the huge rushed timeskip after Ichigo cuts Yhwach

Bet you can’t defend this or even explain the importance of the time skip.

But the arrow is plot BS too nonetheless

You still don’t understand it

 

[Ovy7]

I’m talking about the huge rushed timeskip after Ichigo cuts Yhwach

Hmm, what's the problem with that one? I legit don't see why Kubo would change that, especially if he wants to continue with the Jaws of Hell arc.

 

[skippy]

Uryu is directly said to have a power that exceeds Yhwach,now im not sure what it is. Could be his Schrift or something else.
Also said that Uryu powers would one day surpass his own, thats also weird.

 

[Aernasilver]

At this point I’d say wait and see if we even get any “retcons” cuz for all we know, Kubo could announce if he’s going to change something. Considering he’s announced he will be adding new stuff, he could realistically say something like “I’m going to change x y or z”.

There is already new stuff in the trailer. Ishida and Ryuuken scene, there’s actually fighting in the first scene with the hollows, and Yhwach doing some assholen shit with lightning striking down (don’t remember this being in the first invasion part).

 

[AppleLord]

Shouldn't Shinji gets mind manipulation? As he can confound his enemies mind with Bankai

"Sorry--Sakanade is a liar. That the hypnosis doesn't work well on bugs was also a lie."
If his normal shikai was thought to be only an illusion of sight and sound, using his bankai, he would prod at the underside of others' perceptions, activating a brutal ability to hypnotize not just their sensory systems, but to confound their very minds."

-Bleach: Can't Fear Your Own World Chapter 19

Although I'm pretty confused at perception manipulation page but shouldn't he also have that? ( It's stated in his profile )

That kind of argumentation is nonsensical. Mangaka have editors and staff that revise their work. So they don’t even inherently write every single word of their own manga. In that same vein you cannot prove they wrote every single word in their own original manga. With how much amount of statements and evidence we have that Kubo is involving himself in every aspect of the TYBW anime, especially the script writing, the anime should be considered just as canon, if not more so because it will more accurately reflect Kubo’s current vision.


Not true, there can be by the book cases. By your logic here, an author could say the anime is the definitive experience of their story but it’d be less canon than their self admitted less definitive version. Makes no sense.

Bleach wiki logic.

 

[Damage3245]

To be honest the only thing that strikes me as a bit of significant plothole is that Urahara & Yoruichi knew all along that Aizen, Gin and Tosen were duplicitous bad guys who would happily experiment and slaughter their fellow Captains and Vice Captains, and although they didn't have any direct evidence at the time, they didn't bother leaving some kind of explanation / accusation for the other Captains. Yes; they had to take refuge in the World of the Living with the Vizards, but is it really a great idea not to give a heads-up to Yama, Shunsui, Ukitake and Unohana? Even if they're not going to believe the accusations without direct evidence, they would at least have a reason to be suspicious of those three from then on.

 

[Purgy]

To be honest the only thing that strikes me as a bit of significant plothole is that Urahara & Yoruichi knew all along that Aizen, Gin and Tosen were duplicitous bad guys who would happily experiment and slaughter their fellow Captains and Vice Captains, and although they didn't have any direct evidence at the time, they didn't bother leaving some kind of explanation / accusation for the other Captains. Yes; they had to take refuge in the World of the Living with the Vizards, but is it really a great idea not to give a heads-up to Yama, Shunsui, Ukitake and Unohana? Even if they're not going to believe the accusations without direct evidence, they would at least have a reason to be suspicious of those three from then on.

Kisuke probably knew that it wouldn't amount to anything and therefore didn't bother. From the perspective of Yamamoto and the others, Kisuke, Yoruichi and Tessai were the ones that did it as all the evidence irrefutably pointed to that conclusion and Aizen had an alibi.

If a convicted murderer started accusing people with absolutely zero proof and that person had an alibi proving they weren't involved, would anyone even give it a second thought? I doubt it.

 

[Damage3245]

Kisuke is an intelligent dude. I'm sure he could have found a way.

 

[KingogKings777]

Kisuke is an intelligent dude. I'm sure he could have found a way.

KS goes burr and proved Aizen innocent.