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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Why is base Aizen high 6-A? Hes way too high. Ulquiorra also seems to have inflated ap jumping from high 6-B to 6-A+. Even if his second release is stronger than the top 3's first, that would assume his second is greater than or equal to. I think it is stronger but not everybody buys that. I also don't think the black cero nor gran rey cero should be treated as higher or separate ap moves. Those aren't even an Espada's strongest moves. When I say separate ap, I mean like, '''higher''' with this or getting a whole tier upgrade. It would be like saying goku is stronger with Kamehameha.

Halibel strongest move is cascada, not gran rey cero. Ulquiorra's is lanza del relampago, grimmjow's is that claw move forgot what its called, starrks I assume is that coyote ish. All of these moves are their strongest but black cero and gran rey cero are treated as separate ap moves. Black cero and gran rey are kinda wanked imo when their actual strongest moves were used already. The moves i said can't even be used unless they release, while gran rey cero can be used in base its a weaker attack
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You know what this entire post is? An argument from incredulity.

Also, you know Cero Oscuras is stated to be a 10x amp right? And furthermore Gran Rey Cero is stated to be an amp beyond Cero Oscuras?

You're spouting a lot of blatant falsehoods that aren't stated nor implied at all. This is head canon central.
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Why is base Aizen high 6-A? Hes way too high. Ulquiorra also seems to have inflated ap jumping from high 6-B to 6-A+. Even if his second release is stronger than the top 3's first, that would assume his second is greater than or equal to. I think it is stronger but not everybody buys that. I also don't think the black cero nor gran rey cero should be treated as higher or separate ap moves. Those aren't even an Espada's strongest moves. When I say separate ap, I mean like, '''higher''' with this or getting a whole tier upgrade. It would be like saying goku is stronger with Kamehameha.

Halibel strongest move is cascada, not gran rey cero. Ulquiorra's is lanza del relampago, grimmjow's is that claw move forgot what its called, starrks I assume is that coyote ish. All of these moves are their strongest but black cero and gran rey cero are treated as separate ap moves. Black cero and gran rey are kinda wanked imo when their actual strongest moves were used already. The moves i said can't even be used unless they release, while gran rey cero can be used in base its a weaker attack
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What’s the argument here?
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Why is base Aizen high 6-A? Hes way too high. Ulquiorra also seems to have inflated ap jumping from high 6-B to 6-A+. Even if his second release is stronger than the top 3's first, that would assume his second is greater than or equal to. I think it is stronger but not everybody buys that. I also don't think the black cero nor gran rey cero should be treated as higher or separate ap moves. Those aren't even an Espada's strongest moves. When I say separate ap, I mean like, '''higher''' with this or getting a whole tier upgrade. It would be like saying goku is stronger with Kamehameha.
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Aizen is 6-A because he's stronger than all the Espada, Gin outright states that. Every Espada can destroy Las Noches, calced at large country, the multipliers Ulq has put him into 6-A definitively.

Cero Oscuras is a 10x AP amp because a databook says that the Cero Oscuras is an order of magnitude stronger than an ordinary Cero, which arrancar can do while released, thus CO is a 10x amp over their normal attacks, Gran Rey is stated to be the ultimate Cero, and the Espada with ultimate attacks over the GRC would just have an attack that's even higher than the GRC.
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Halibel strongest move is cascada, not gran rey cero. Ulquiorra's is lanza del relampago, grimmjow's is that claw move forgot what its called, starrks I assume is that coyote ish. All of these moves are their strongest but black cero and gran rey cero are treated as separate ap moves. Black cero and gran rey are kinda wanked imo when their actual strongest moves were used already. The moves i said can't even be used unless they release, while gran rey cero can be used in base its a weaker attack
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Yes, some Espada have attacks stronger than the Gran Rey Cero, which just means that they have an attack stronger than GRC, not anything else.

If you think GRC and CO are wanked, make a CRT to prove it.
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
I'm saying it leads to inflated stats
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Jones.png
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
I'm saying it leads to inflated stats. But the part about those not being their strongest moves is legit though
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Last I checked, stats weren't inflated by using stated, confirmed multipliers.

Them not being their strongest move is irrelevant, as the characters with stronger attacks have them listed as "Even higher with___"
 
Well heres the thing, I was under the impression people don't take data books serious. Or at least not always. They get retconned, debunked, devalued all the time. I went from profile to profile and didn't see anything about a 10x. If I did I missed it. You see assuming multiple things. So this random ass 10x bro I did not see, and it wouldn't hurt to put 10x in the actual justification And even if there was a data book, it would have to be assumed we take it as legit. So one is assuming i know its a 10x, and second would he knowing that that 10x is actually accepted and not thrown away or disregarded, retconned, etc.
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
I went from profile to profile and didn't see anything about a 10x.
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vsbattles.fandom.com

Ulquiorra Cifer

Ulquiorra Cifer (ウルキオラ・シファー, Urukiora Shifā?) is the 4th Espada of Sosuke Aizen's army. As an Espada, the aspect of death he symbolizes is emptiness. Tier: 6-A, High 6-A with Gran Rey Cero, High 6-A with Resurrección, higher with Cero Oscuras, far higher with Gran Rey Cero, at least High 6-A...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Large Country level with Cero Oscuras (Cero Oscuras is an order of magnitude stronger than regular Ceros
Click to expand...

Deadass says on the profile that CO is an ORDER OF MAGNITUDE otherwise known as 10x
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Well heres the thing, I was under the impression people don't take data books serious. Or at least not always. They get retconned, debunked, devalued all the time. I went from profile to profile and didn't see anything about a 10x. If I did I missed it. You see assuming multiple things. So this random ass 10x bro I did not see, and it wouldn't hurt to put 10x in the actual justification And even if there was a data book, it would have to be assumed we take it as legit. So one is assuming i know its a 10x, and second would he knowing that that 10x is actually accepted and not thrown away or disregarded, retconned, etc.
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Databooks that haven't been retconned or contradicted by the manga are always perfectly valid, the **** are you saying? The 10x Cero Oscuras databook statement been known for actual years my guy, how are we supposed to know you've been under a rock when it comes to Bleach scaling?
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Well heres the thing, I was under the impression people don't take data books serious. Or at least not always. They get retconned, debunked, devalued all the time. I went from profile to profile and didn't see anything about a 10x. If I did I missed it. You see assuming multiple things. So this random ass 10x bro I did not see, and it wouldn't hurt to put 10x in the actual justification And even if there was a data book, it would have to be assumed we take it as legit. So one is assuming i know its a 10x, and second would he knowing that that 10x is actually accepted and not thrown away or disregarded, retconned, etc.
Click to expand...
Why would you think this? Data books have always been valid. It’s on you to prove a retcon or anything else of the like. Please read the profiles again if you didn’t see it.
 
"Databooks that haven't been retconned or contradicted by the manga are always perfectly valid, the **** are you saying?"

I'm saying that it could have been. But if it was I wouldn't know. Again an assumption. It's pretty easy to tell what I meant by that. I stopped taking them serious a long time ago. Wasn't there some shit like soi fon had a higher speed than aizen or some shit?
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
I'm saying that it could have been. But if it was I wouldn't know. Again an assumption. It's pretty easy to tell what I meant by that. I stopped taking them serious a long time ago. Wasn't there some shit like soi fon had a higher speed than aizen or some shit?
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Sounds like revisionist coping 🗿
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
"Databooks that haven't been retconned or contradicted by the manga are always perfectly valid, the **** are you saying?"

I'm saying that it could have been. But if it was I wouldn't know. Again an assumption. It's pretty easy to tell what I meant by that. I stopped taking them serious a long time ago. Wasn't there some shit like soi fon had a higher speed than aizen or some shit?
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"It could have been" isn't an argument. Assuming that all databooks have been retconned when in reality very few have been, especially when it comes to Bleach, is a ******* headass take. If there wasone that said that about Soi Fon, it wasn't in the one that has the 10x statement, and even if it was one statement being contradicted doesn't make everything in the databook wrong.
 
Wasn't that a thing though? I remember there was captain stats that people didn't take seriously so thats actually why I stopped looking for those and relied on anime and manga
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Wasn't that a thing though? I remember there was captain stats that people didn't take seriously so thats actually why I stopped looking for those and relied on anime and manga
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Oh character stats and whatnot are generally pretty hit or miss, but that doesn’t discredit the entire databook.
 
Let me get this straight, one assuming I take data books seriously when noting something that was previously debunked. For all I know that could of been as well. So wouldn't keeping up with anime and manga be more legit? Yet on my ass about databooks I don't care to ******* read after I already saw some false shit in past. Wtf lmao.
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Let me get this straight, one assuming I take data books seriously when noting something that was previously debunked. For all I know that could of been as well. So wouldn't keeping up with anime and manga be more legit? Yet on my ass about databooks I don't care to ******* read after I already saw some false shit in past. Wtf lmao.
Click to expand...
Some stuff in databooks is contradictory to the manga, but most isn't. Throwing them all out is the actual definition of throwing the baby out with the bathwater my man
 
the point is, on my ass about databooks, when I stopped caring for them after seeing some false shit in the past. There is nothing complex about that. Does it invalid them completely? Ofc not. But, it doesn't make them 100% factual. So if that is the case I rather worry about anime and manga. There is nothing complex or strange about that
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
the point is, on my ass about databooks, when I stopped caring for them after seeing some false shit in the past. There is nothing complex about that. Does it invalid them completely? Ofc not. But, it doesn't make them 100% factual. So if that is the case I rather worry about anime and manga. There is nothing complex or strange about that
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Not every statement in the manga is 100% factual either, so therefore I should ignore all statements ever.

If not every statement is 100% factual just judge on a case-by-case basis, and look for contradictions, rather than treating them all as invalid.
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Let me get this straight, one assuming I take data books seriously when noting something that was previously debunked. For all I know that could of been as well. So wouldn't keeping up with anime and manga be more legit? Yet on my ass about databooks I don't care to ******* read after I already saw some false shit in past. Wtf lmao.
Click to expand...
Nobody cares what you think. If you think this issue is this important make a CRT about removing "databooks" as a valid source for all series from VSBW.
 
The problem is assuming i have read it. And I had good reason to have not based on what it sounds like. I like bleach but not that much. Especially since it's not always legit. Like please I'm not trying to hear condescending shit over something that isn't even 100% factual LOL.
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
The problem is assuming i have read it. And I had good reason to have not based on what it sounds like. I like bleach but not that much. Especially since it's not always legit. Like please I'm not trying to hear condescending shit over something that isn't even 100% factual LOL.
Click to expand...
Bro really said "I think the stats on this series are wrong, no I didn't read it." The absolute state of this man
 
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