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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion
- Thread starter Zoro21043
- Start date
EldemadeDityjon
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The argument is very simple, coming from narrative and scaling knowledge.
Ginjo isn't stated to have improved during the 6 months. Nothing suggest he got stronger. Ginjo is massively weaker than FB Ichigo, who's massively weaker than Jugram, who's massively weaker than Base Yhwach, who's massively weaker than Almighty Yhwach, who's massively weaker than SK Almighty Yhwach.
Anyway now cope
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EldemadeDityjon
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I do believe in Ichigo GT being massively above Everyone attack power in bleach.
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We're not talking about Ichigo's GT, we're talking about TB Ichigo's GT. ******* yikes.I do believe in Ichigo GT being massively above Everyone attack power in bleach.
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This is what this feels like now.
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Go make the thread mrk, I’ll take clear cut WoG statements over other’s headcanon every day.
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Don't they already have those?
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EldemadeDityjon
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This is what this feels like now.
Same WOG is considered as Outliers for Gremmy feat 
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EldemadeDityjon
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I made a thread lord Griffith agreed for EE and its just getting bumped to get one more Staff opinion.
Either way all is well if Ichigo and Aizen gets passive EE
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Don't know why since no one would scale to it since it took 7 or more Gremmies to do it iirc.Same WOG is considered as Outliers for Gremmy feat
EldemadeDityjon
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The main point is Gremmy power got absorbed by yhwach narratively but we don't even scale God tiers to that feat. You know whatever power others gained in their lifetime gets absorbed by yhwach when they die right. It's yhwach narrative. Even if others doesn't scale to it yhwach, aizen and Ichigo should scale to it.
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Like why cant Ginjo scale to ichigo?
we have seen that Emotion Boosts or Decreases power. Like Ichigo after Ulqiorra fight, or when we see in tybw after he finds out the truth his inner world immediatly starts falling apart. When we see Ichigo wanting to protect someone he gets a boost in power.
Why wouldnt Ginjo get a boost too?
we have seen that Emotion Boosts or Decreases power. Like Ichigo after Ulqiorra fight, or when we see in tybw after he finds out the truth his inner world immediatly starts falling apart. When we see Ichigo wanting to protect someone he gets a boost in power.
Why wouldnt Ginjo get a boost too?
EldemadeDityjon
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I meant to say how much power cultivated by Sterns gets absorbed by yhwach.
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"guy only has fraction of ichigo's power"
So a weaker version of ginjo stole some of ichigo's mixed-raced reiatsu and stacked it on top of his own, he still trained after and got stronger. Mixed-raced beings are known to have insane potential as hollowfication allows one to shatter their limits so this rebuttal holds no weight.
"no amount of training could ever get him ichigo's level"
Is there a statement from any novel, databook or the manga that supports this? We don't know what ginjo's limits are (if he even has any now that his reiatsu has elements of all the races in bleach) so this rebuttal also holds no weight.
"Narrator's do exaggerate sometimes"
True, an example could be something like kenpachi being able to "destroy the very concept of death". However this is a inverse power scaling statement (The bangin's GT ~ Ichigo's GT one) and these are to be taken literal as factual information unless there's a contradiction presented, which there isn't in this case.
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Regarding Gremmy’s situation and how it differs from Ginjo, cuz Nightmare is crying about that too. CFYOW Ginjo is stated to be consistently near WSK levels without an emotion-amp, and then his emotion-amped Bankai scales only to himself and the God Tiers. Gremmy on the other hand would scale pretty much every “elite Sternritter” level character to cosmic levels despite none of those other characters having cosmic feats (unless you argue Yama busting SS is uni overtime). If it was Yhwach who created the multi-Galaxy sized space with stars and galaxies, then it probably wouldn’t be an outlier. But the difference here is emotion amped CFYOW Bankai Ginjo’s only feat/scaling is to the God Tiers, meanwhile Gremmy has multiple tier 6 scaling and even a tier 6 feat vs a single tier 3 feat and Gremmy scales to a decent portion of other characters. If Tokinada face tanked Ginjo’s GT, then yeah that’d be a blatant contradiction and it’d get ruled as an outlier. Also, afaik, no one here even said they agree that Gremmy can’t be tier 3. I personally find cosmic Gremmy to be fine and very easy to argue, but I can understand why people find it inconsistent compared to Multi-Continental Gremmy.
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hes ichigo level ... cope buddy cope
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so fb ichigo > tb ichigo getsuga tensho. bleach hub raised a good one here
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I thought thats legit joke but turn out to be a serious...
EldemadeDityjon
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I never said that
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ur literally implying that fb ichigo gt is the strongestI never said that
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He doesn't have the same potential as ichigo if only holds a fragment of his power. So to say he reached his level is pretty absurd. Like he can't even beat hikone who hasn't even transcended the boundaries of hollow and soul reapers. Ginjo also hasn't shown the growth potential of ichigo and hikone. Like hikones power level was constantly growing mid fight. Far surpassing ginjo. Even tho he started out weaker than him.
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even if he has a fragment of his power hes still a mix of all the races so he has a good amount of potential. also hes only that level with his emotion amped getsuga tensho
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Ichigo with 3 months of training and achieving inner peace surpasses WSK. Ginjo with 6 months of off-screen training and finally achieving reconciliation (by being able to finally confront the person who ruined his life by killing his friends) reaches fatigued TB Ichigo levels (far surpasses WSK).
Ginjo and Ichigo have the same powers, Ginjo had more time to train than Dangai Ichigo, Ginjo's base was far stronger than FKT Ichigo's base (Ginjo was already approaching WSK levels as it's stated at bare minimum he could provide noticeable support in helping become a battery to replace WSK), and both had achieved some kind of mental clarity/resolve.
The only difference is Ginjo didn't reach a state of "Blade Is Me" like Ichigo had and thus he only reached those levels temporarily.
Ginjo is stacking a hybrid Bankai amp (might be akin to stacking Res + Bankai considering he gets the Hollow markings and eyes in Bankai) + a resolve amp that enables him to jump from approaching WSK level to fatigued TB Ichigo level. It really isn't that absurd. Bankai Ichigo's ******** out those Getsugas casually while fatigued, meanwhile Bankai Ginjo needs to be amped beyond his normal levels with a resolve amp. It's not like we are saying Bankai Ginjo = TB Ichigo, we are saying emotion/resolve-amped Bankai Ginjo ~ fatigued TB Ichigo.
If anything, Ginjo reaching these levels with his emotion amps is a feat of him having that Ichigo and Hikone type potential.
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Yeah bro is really stubborn. This is what his counter argument is
„except it’s a pocket dimension and if he just sent him to space it would make no sense whatsoever that he cut space to escape lmao. It literally even shows an oval shape and multiple gremmy’s surrounding it“
You cant make this shit up
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Yeah bro is really stubborn. This is what his counter argument is
„except it’s a pocket dimension and if he just sent him to space it would make no sense whatsoever that he cut space to escape lmao. It literally even shows an oval shape and multiple gremmy’s surrounding it“
You cant make this shit up
Both of these are funny
EldemadeDityjon
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I never implied FB GT is strongest GT.
1. Rivaled Ichigo most powerful GT can be interpreted as FB Ichigo because they both exchanged GT when they fought.
2. Ichigo needed to sacrifice his whole power and needed to train 3 months continuously without rest to get the power level of transcended being. Also we Know Ichigo growth rate throughout the series on a different level than others.
Anyway if you want to wank Ginjo to Mugetsu or higher version sure it's your interpretation.
Can you atleast share a scan from Novel where it's stated Ginjo has more potential than Ichigo. Or atleast has relative potential to grow. I would love to see it.
Funny Ginjo who is relative to Shunsui. Gets amped by emotions and suddenly becomes Yhwach level. Oh god we didn't get to see Ichigo getting amped by emotions and Transcending anyone. His music even stopped by Goat Aizen when he amped by emotions.
This is my reasoning if you want to disagree yeah sure.
I should have done this. I didn't knew i would hurt so many people feelings.
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its funny how u keep bringing up the same points that have already been countered and completely refuse to listen to anyone who doesn't agree with what you're sayingI never implied FB GT is strongest GT.
1. Rivaled Ichigo most powerful GT can be interpreted as FB Ichigo because they both exchanged GT when they fought.
2. Ichigo needed to sacrifice his whole power and needed to train 3 months continuously without rest to get the power level of transcended being. Also we Know Ichigo growth rate throughout the series on a different level than others.
Anyway if you want to wank Ginjo to Mugetsu or higher version sure it's your interpretation.
Can you atleast share a scan from Novel where it's stated Ginjo has more potential than Ichigo. Or atleast has relative potential to grow. I would love to see it.
Funny Ginjo who is relative to Shunsui. Gets amped by emotions and suddenly becomes Yhwach level. Oh god we didn't get to see Ichigo getting amped by emotions and Transcending anyone. His music even stopped by Goat Aizen when he amped by emotions.
This is my reasoning if you want to disagree yeah sure.
I should have done this. I didn't knew i would hurt so many people feelings.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,472
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I don't see where these points are countered you people just assumed Ginjo has same level of potential of Ichigo which he never shown and emotions never amped Ichigo to power up on Mugetsu level. How tf Ginjo Body would hold up if he was on Shunsui level and even if you argue he was amped by so called emotions him reaching Mugetsu or any higher level is impossible without breaking his body. Look at what happened to kenpachi for outputting more than what his body can handle.its funny how u keep bringing up the same points that have already been countered and completely refuse to listen to anyone who doesn't agree with what you're saying
Even if GINJO trained or not he was on Shunsui level that doesn't change.
EldemadeDityjon
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Atleast instead of putting laughing emojis or something send scans for Ginjo having better potential and having better growth rate than Ichigo then we can talk. It's literally you people ignoring Ichigo narrative. Ofcourse Kubo > Narita I hope i don't have to tell you that. Your assumption puts Ginjo can amped by emotions and goes from 0-100 like nothing. Where Ichigo needs to train on death bed to get any power up.its funny how u keep bringing up the same points that have already been countered and completely refuse to listen to anyone who doesn't agree with what you're saying
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how can they not have the same amount of potential if they have the exact same powers. Ginjo literally trained for 6 months offscreen. In the dangai. I don't need scans to prove that they have the same amount of potential. this alone doesn't put him over TB ichigo its the emotional amp that does that.
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EldemadeDityjon
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I will take that as concession for burden of proof.
Having same powers doesn't mean they have same potential. Toki copied Everyone abilities/powers but narratively he is nowhere near anyone even though he had same powers.
Wait don't tell me you think Ginjo body > Kenpachi
.Kenpachi couldn't even handle normal output of his own reastu where according to you people Ginjo who was on Shunsui level amped by emotions powered up and fired strongest GT which blasted off yhwach.
Also yes Ginjo has potential to become WSK i am not denying it but that doesn't mean he is directly relative to TB Ichigo.
Aizen and Dangai both were Transcended. But Mugetsu one shoted Aizen. Aizen had to transform into 5th form to reach Dangai level even though Dangai Ichigo shown to be holding back and flexing on monster Aizen.
Unless WOG from Narita or Kubo says Ginjo is indeed has potential of Ichigo. I am not gonna believe in your headcanon.
Anyway if you want to believe Ginjo potential is on par with Ichigo go on.
EldemadeDityjon
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Again if you people want to believe Ginjo has same potential level of Ichigo go on do so. I am not gonna believe that until WOG Kubo says so.
We will get databook and other things when anime drops lets see the potential of Ginjo then.
We will get databook and other things when anime drops lets see the potential of Ginjo then.
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"It was a strike that rivaled Ichigo Kurosaki's most powerful Getsuga Tensho." ~ CFYOW Volume 3 Chapter 23 VIZ
"黒崎一護が放つ、最大威力の月牙天衝にも匹敵する一撃。" ~ CFYOW Volume 3 Chapter 23 Raws
"A strike equal to the greatest power Getsuga Tenshou fired off by Kurosaki Ichigo." ~ CFYOW Volume 3 Chapter 23 Translated by Arc
I rest my case.You're so stubbornly annoying that I went out of my way to find and translate the raws, congrats on that achievement.
The only way you can dismiss that statement is to just not accept the CFYOW novels as canon, in which case say goodbye to your best uni Bleach arguments.
"黒崎一護が放つ、最大威力の月牙天衝にも匹敵する一撃。" ~ CFYOW Volume 3 Chapter 23 Raws
"A strike equal to the greatest power Getsuga Tenshou fired off by Kurosaki Ichigo." ~ CFYOW Volume 3 Chapter 23 Translated by Arc
I rest my case.
The only way you can dismiss that statement is to just not accept the CFYOW novels as canon, in which case say goodbye to your best uni Bleach arguments.
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EldemadeDityjon
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what's that. I am now wondering what it could be. Uni Bleach uni Bleach . Uni Bleach 
it doesn't exist.There is still a word called hyperbole exist to dismiss the claim and can still accept Novels as canon
. Anyway great work by finding the raw scans.A hyperbole is a term that refers to statements made in a particular work of fiction that are exaggerations of the actual truth of the matter. Often hyperboles are used as evidence in debates, and it can be very difficult to tell if a statement is a hyperbole or not.
