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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

Its a weird power but no one has ever hit someone when they disappear because faster than the eye can see doesn't work cause this also applied to ppl faster than characters ex: not hitting them after they vanish
 
There's also a difference between a jump and flash step or sonido. Sometimes bleach characters take really far or fast jumps without disappearing and these are usually the characters natural speed. Those steps only apply to the disappear phase. Which they do move faster than their natural movement during that vanish aspect. But difference is obviously if I jump you can hit me but if I sonido you aren't able to
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Not sure must be the reappear phase
Click to expand...
Except that the scan clearly shows Aislingerr leaving the smoke via movement, Uryu calls it Sonido, speaks about his Hirenkyaku in the present tense, and Aislingerr is shook that Uryu can keep up with his Sonido in the present tense. It’s blatantly not teleportation. Shunsui even comments on Starrk’s Sonido being so fast that it almost seems like teleportation, not that it is.
skippy said:
Also Aislinger is not a advanced user of the Sonido.
Just to add this
Also Sonido doesnt use Reiatsu
Click to expand...
If Sonido is teleportation, it doesn’t matter how good you are with it as it will still be teleportation. Even Zommari says that he moves so fast he creates after images. Moves, not teleports.

There must be some hidden gem of a scan outside of the manga to support this because the manga sure as hell doesn’t. Also, didn’t Hikone fuse all the high speed movement techniques together for his time dilating movement? Even more evidence that teleportation is wrong.
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
There's also a difference between a jump and flash step or sonido. Sometimes bleach characters take really far or fast jumps without disappearing and these are usually the characters natural speed. Those steps only apply to the disappear phase. Which they do move faster than their natural movement during that vanish aspect. But difference is obviously if I jump you can hit me but if I sonido you aren't able to
Click to expand...
Okay so where does it actually say you can’t be hit mid Sonido? Because I already brought scans that show them physically moving for Sonido.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Except that the scan clearly shows Aislingerr leaving the smoke via movement, Uryu calls it Sonido, speaks about his Hirenkyaku in the present tense, and Aislingerr is shook that Uryu can keep up with his Sonido in the present tense. It’s blatantly not teleportation. Shunsui even comments on Starrk’s Sonido being so fast that it almost seems like teleportation, not that it is.

If Sonido is teleportation, it doesn’t matter how good you are with it as it will still be teleportation. Even Zommari says that he moves so fast he creates after images. Moves, not teleports.

There must be some hidden gem of a scan outside of the manga to support this because the manga sure as hell doesn’t. Also, didn’t Hikone fuse all the high speed movement techniques together for his time dilating movement? Even more evidence that teleportation is wrong.
Click to expand...
In Cfyow chapter 8-9 it says that Sonido doesnt use reiatsu.
They dont exert reiatsu using it.
 
Or he could be referring to after he reappeared again and uryu was still right there. But I said limited teleportion so idrc about it not being standard teleportion cause clearly it isn't. But doesn't change the fact a character has not ever been hitting during flash step or sonido and only after they appear again unless you wanna call it invisibility plus intangible which isn't accurate either
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Okay? That has nothing to do with it being teleportation. It literally doesn’t support or debunk either side of the argument.
Click to expand...
Sure, it does indicate it works on a different system of power which could help in a debate.
Also Sonido did get completely past Ulqiorra Pesquisa who is able to use it to monitor his enemies' location in the event he can't see them.
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Or he could be referring to after he reappeared again and uryu was still right there.
Click to expand...
Except that they are speaking about it in the present tense. You need to ignore what is on the page to not get this?
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
But I said limited teleportion so idrc about it not being standard teleportion cause clearly it isn't.
Click to expand...
What do you mean limited? In what way is it limited if he can go from point A to point B without having to physically cross the distance as the entire stance of “Sonido = teleportation” implies. It’s not like Flying Thunder God where markers are required to go to somewhere which is an actual limitation.
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
But doesn't change the fact a character has not ever been hitting during flash step or sonido and only after they appear again unless you wanna call it invisibility plus intangible which isn't accurate either
Click to expand...
Except for the fact that Byakuya literally tags and kills Zommari’s Sonido clones which is just him using Sonido a lot. It’s quite literally them just being really fast.
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
And the scan you showed he looked like he was in the jump phase after a character reappears again cause he did actually vanish briefly.
Click to expand...
That jump was him in the middle of using Sonido. They literally tell us he is in the middle of using Sonido.
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
So basically that person you showed has a really trash sonido
Click to expand...
This doesn’t matter at all tho. If Sonido = teleport, every Sonido is teleportation. Not just the ones who are good at it. You can’t cherry pick what is and isn’t teleportation when the very premise of your argument is that it is all teleportation.
skippy said:
Sure, it does indicate it works on a different system of power which could help in a debate.
Click to expand...
A different power system doesn’t help nor hinder the fact that it is teleportation or not.
skippy said:
Also Sonido did get completely past Ulqiorra Pesquisa who is able to use it to monitor his enemies' location in the event he can't see them.
Click to expand...
That just means that it can bypass ESP? How do you go from a stated trait of a power to assuming it’s a completely different ability?
 
Why you think characters get surprised when users use sonido or shunpo. Because they lose sight. It may be brief but they do. So if someone does not get surprised during your step it means


They were able to react to your vanish thus if you reappear again would have enough time to defend against your attack. Some characters do that dumb "Uh!" Sound when you vanish because they couldn't react to your vanish and some characters don't care at all. Because if you can react to the vanish it means they aren't that fast. But if you can't if means when they reappear again you will have trouble reacting to their attack if you can
 
I'm not ignoring the present. Lets look at it like this

He vanishes. He's going to travel faster than his normal speed. He reappears again and uryu is there again. How are you keeping up with shunpo means how did he cross the distance he just did and uryu ill be next to him.

That's literally all that is

I didn't cherry pick i siad his sonido is trash because. Because he didn't get anywhere
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Why you think characters get surprised when users use sonido or shunpo. Because they lose sight. It may be brief but they do. So if someone does not get surprised during your step it means
Click to expand...
……… because the person is moving really fast -_-
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
They were able to react to your vanish thus if you reappear again would have enough time to defend against your attack. Some characters do that dumb "Uh!" Sound when you vanish because they couldn't react to your vanish and some characters don't care at all. Because if you can react to the vanish it means they aren't that fast. But if you can't if means when they reappear again you will have trouble reacting to their attack if you can
Click to expand...
This is just throwing words onto the page. None of this is relevant.
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
I'm not ignoring the present. Lets look at it like this
Click to expand...
You really are.
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
He vanishes. He's going to travel faster than his normal speed. He reappears again and uryu is there again. How are you keeping up with shunpo means how did he cross the distance he just did and uryu ill be next to him.
Click to expand...
Literally no. We see him coming out of the dust cloud, in the next panel we see speed lines for a background, Uryu pulls up next to him, Aislingerr questions how a human can keep up with Sonido, Uryu says that he is built different and that Hirenkyaku is (and pay attention to this next part) faster than Shunpo and Sonido, speed lines are still the background for this entire exchange.
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
That's literally all that is
Click to expand...
You literally didn’t look at the scans I sent and spewed your own headcanon as fact.

Edit: Shit, Uryu even refers to how fast Aislingerr is moving during his Sonido and Aislingerr even says that Uryu can keep up with Sonido, not that he can react to Aislingerr dropping out of some teleport.
 
because the person is moving really fast ok then why do characters only get hit after they reappear again. And 2, this also applied to God tiers. Has never ever hit summoning during either of those movement techniques. So its saying even faster characters can't react to your movement? Really doesn't make sense.

What do speed lines matter a character can get a speed line for doing a basic jump or moving running
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
because the person is moving really fast ok then why do characters only get hit after they reappear again. And 2, this also applied to God tiers. Has never ever hit summoning during either of those movement techniques. So its saying even faster characters can't react to your movement? Really doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...
Because maybe, and bear with me on this, maybe the guy moving fast is moving too fast fast for his opp during his high-speed movement. Absolutely wild notion, I know.

Edit: Note that this is only for people who are relative or the guy using said high speed movement is faster than the other guy. Uryu literally shows us that the faster guy can keep up with the slower guy’s high speed movement.
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Wtf do speed lines matter a character can get a speed line for doing a basic jump or moving running
Click to expand...
Are you for real rn? Tf do you think SPEED lines are for? They are meant to denote how something is moving fast.
 
Yes they indicated someone is moving fast and you can jump fast they do this entire bleach series thats what I meant by not every step or jump is either of those movement techniques
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Idk characters in bleach jump fast all the time so I don't really get why that matters
Click to expand...
Stop going off on this weird jumping tangent. You said that Sonido = teleportation. One of my many counter arguments (and not even a primary one) was that speed lines are used for the background of said “teleportation” and you have already agreed that they are used to denote X moving really fast. That means that it goes directly against your stance, hence why it is relevant.
 
My point was you can get a speed lines for doing a basic jump i see speed lines throughout the whole series for shit as simple as sword strikes I don't really see how its an indication of sonido. Im saying when uryu caught up to him his step was already over which is why he asked if that was all a sonido can do. Because he didn't move very far or fast which is why he caught up to him. Sonido is a teleportion. That guy was not in sonido when he was talking. In fact ppl that use sonido are more like on auto pilot. Gou don't speak or even process anything until you reappear again. It's like your brain is turned off never in my life seen someone talk during a sonido or even flash step unless the step was already over I called that dude trash bc he has a small step
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
My point was you can get a speed lines for doing a basic jump i see speed lines throughout the whole series for shit as simple as sword strikes I don't really see how its an indication of sonido.
Click to expand...
You … don’t see how something you agree has been universally used in the series for speed being used for a technique that is repeatedly stated to be high speed movement, indicates that said high speed movement is in fact movement?
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Im saying when uryu caught up to him his step was already over which is why he asked if that was all a sonido can do. Because he didn't move very far or fast which is why he caught up to him. Sonido is a teleportion.
Click to expand...
They are quite literally talking mid Sonido on panel and confirm that it’s during the Sonido.
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
That guy was not in sonido when he was talking.
Click to expand...
Except for the fact that they say it’s during Sonido when Aislingerr thinks “there’s no way a human can keep up with a Sonido”, Uryu says “you’re pretty fast” and “my high speed movement is faster than yours” while using his high speed movement?
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
In fact ppl that use sonido are more like on auto pilot. Gou don't speak or even process anything until you reappear again. It's like your brain is turned off never in my life seen someone talk during a sonido or even flash step unless the step was already over I called that dude trash bc he has a small step
Click to expand...
Where is any of this stated? All of this is nothing but headcanon and directly contradicted by the scans I sent of people processing stuff and talking during the Sonido. That dude can be trash all you want but it still doesn’t debunk the fact that they did exactly what you asserted they couldn’t during Sonido.
 
Alright let's debunk your present argument and I think it's as simple as you are overlook what is happening.

Alright so sonido is a teleport. Right and characters recognize its faster than their regular movement. Right so say I jump really really fast to point a to point b. If I use sonido I'm probably gunna get there first.

So this guy uses sonido, doesn't get very far, he appears again, and now uryu is right there. He's surprised because he recognizes sonido as fastest than his natural speed, and yet uryu is still there after he reappears again so that means, the movement uryu did must he just as fast as his sonido if he's able to catch up go him despite using sonido. How are you keeping up with sonido did not mean he's using it.


Show me a scan of manga or anime scene from bleach speaking, talking, during the anime or manga as they are using flash step or sonido. You say he's using it in that scan because of what was said im saying he's already done with his step as soon as we saw him again. Sonido or flash step is the unseeable in-between because they quite literally teleport. So no they can't speak or even process anything until they reappear again and do not show me a jump ever again if you do
 
Also why has a character never attacked or been attacked in this invisible state. Yet with either of those only when they reappear after vanishing. A character has never attacked someone while invisible yet been hit in this invisible state. You see the invisible as faster than eye can see i see it just as them teleporting.

Here is standard shunpo or sonido

You see me, I blur out, you don't see me cause I teleported (albeit short distances), I blur again. I appear again and then now I can strike you.

Why has no one been hit during that invisible?

I know because I made bleach sprite battles in the past so I get exactly how the animation works. You start clearly visible, you blur out and deform, now you are invisible, you blur and form again then you attack.

Naruto has literally the same concept and they call it teleportation jutsu which looks like a flash step. It's not pure speed faster than eye can see

Sasuke never used teleportation jutsu when he slashed tobi all he did was run. Tobi only said that because he was a troll all Sasuke did was run. Teleportion jutsu looks exactly like flash step i seem obito himself do it
 
Last edited:
"Sonído (響転 (ソニード), Sonīdo; Spanish for "Sound", Japanese for "Reverberating Turn") is a high-speed movement technique of the Arrancar. It is equivalent to the Shinigami's Shunpo and the Quincy's Hirenkyaku, which are roughly equal in terms of speed."

MASKED page 131
 
as for the novel what is said bout sonido is that Sonído differs from Hohō and Hirenkyaku by not exerting any Reiatsu during use, thereby making the user more difficult to detect when moving. Due to this, Sonído is more practical for hit-and-run tactics.
 
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
"Sonído (響転 (ソニード), Sonīdo; Spanish for "Sound", Japanese for "Reverberating Turn") is a high-speed movement technique of the Arrancar. It is equivalent to the Shinigami's Shunpo and the Quincy's Hirenkyaku, which are roughly equal in terms of speed."

MASKED page 131
Click to expand...
They're just gonna hit you with the "why hasn't anyone fought/get hit mid Sonido then" spam
 
Just came to mind of a discussion. Is Fullbring Mastered Ichigo (With Ginjo's help) stronger than First Shikai Ichigo or is it weaker or the same?
 
A question of my own that I was thinking about. Anyone know if Kenny post Muken scales to Unohana in skill since he had to be keeping up with her at some points in his many fights since he forces her to use other stuff besides pure sword skill?
 
AnonymousBlank said:
A question of my own that I was thinking about. Anyone know if Kenny post Muken scales to Unohana in skill since he had to be keeping up with her at some points in his many fights since he forces her to use other stuff besides pure sword skill?
Click to expand...
That's a good question. For me, he didn't lose his skill. He just forgot how to use his old ability, strength and skill. (Since he sealed his powers to a state where his equal to his opponent.) About the part where if Kenpachi is stronger than Unohana is unsure though.
 
I remember there used to be a crt for mid godly regen for Aizen, what happend to that?

I think the argument was that he turned into reishi particles and completely disappeared and that Ichigo attacks is said to erase everything from existence, its also said the attacks exceeds far everything.
Also the fact that Mugetsu is a accumulation of all his powers meaning hollow and quincy as well and if all these powers were combined it doesnt seam farfetched that Ichigo erased Aizen completely soul and all.
-does anyone remember why it was denied?
 
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