BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Khaostichny]

If we take into account those outliers interpretations of Las Noches and the Yukio Dimension, in addition to the common Shinigami feat destroying Kyigoku in Memories of Nobody, we would have a consistent scaling of Bleach at higher levels.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Las Noches is stated to have a fake Sun so rip that.

Also, Adult Shiro ~ Byakuya ~ Vollstandig Gerard > Giant Gerard ~ no eyepatch ShiKen > eyepatch ShiKen ~ 7 Gremmy = Galaxy Room. Then Tokinada scales to Byakuya which scales so many CFYOW characters to it.

if you scale Gremmy and Kenny to Galaxy room others scale, no getting around it.

 

[Reio35]

Las Noches is stated to have a fake Sun so rip that.

Also, Adult Shiro ~ Byakuya ~ Vollstandig Gerard > Giant Gerard ~ no eyepatch ShiKen > eyepatch ShiKen ~ 7 Gremmy = Galaxy Room. Then Tokinada scales to Byakuya which scales so many CFYOW characters to it.

if you scale Gremmy and Kenny to Galaxy room others scale, no getting around it.

As bad as that looks it wouldn't be as bad as DBS scaling. Were you have plp like roshi and regular sayins scaling to multi galaxy without god power

 

[AppleLord]

So is we don’t want to more than we should?

 

[Tyri456]

Las Noches is stated to have a fake Sun so rip that.

Also, Adult Shiro ~ Byakuya ~ Vollstandig Gerard > Giant Gerard ~ no eyepatch ShiKen > eyepatch ShiKen ~ 7 Gremmy = Galaxy Room. Then Tokinada scales to Byakuya which scales so many CFYOW characters to it.

if you scale Gremmy and Kenny to Galaxy room others scale, no getting around it.

That if you ignore the fact that not necessarily gremmy amped his physicals stats to the Galaxy room.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

So is we don’t want to more than we should?

What

 

[SilentBob34]

Not even gonna lie, I’d rather the god tiers go back to planet level before I accept Gremmy’s galaxy room feat and all the characters that scale to it lol

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

i always saw gremmy as a "XYZ, xyz via using his visionary"

so basically not scaling his stats to hax

 

[SilentBob34]

i always saw gremmy as a "XYZ, xyz via using his visionary"

so basically not scaling his stats to hax

I can see where you’re coming from, but even then it doesn’t take away anything from Kenpachi’s feats and people who scale to him because he busted through all of Gremmy’s feats with his physical strength.
So in the end we’d be right back where we started with people scaling to Gremmy’s galaxy level feat via Kenpachi overpowering him

 

[AnonymousBlank]

True but he didn’t bust Galaxy Room though, just cut his way out via spatial hax. Gremmy’s hax being at this level doesn’t really affect anyone unless I forgot something.

 

[SilentBob34]

True but he didn’t bust Galaxy Room though, just cut his way out via spatial hax. Gremmy’s hax being at this level doesn’t really affect anyone unless I forgot something.

imagine if he did bust out via some kind of supernova attack? that would’ve been pretty cool but after he busted out he easily killed Gremmy’s 6 clones with a single slash. Granted Gremmy may not have been expecting it and honestly, I’d have to reread the fight again. But at the absolute best in all circumstances, Gremmy could be 3C with 6 clones with no one scaling to him.
And again, even then it messes up scaling because Yhwach was able to suppress and seal Gremmy in the past which would mean base Yhwach and Bankai Yamamoto would still scale to Galaxy level which doesn’t seem accurate with the portrayal. Buuut this is just my opinion so imma let you and other more knowledgeable members give theirs on this.

 

[Ssr4vegito]

The Nobles scaling to each other is one of the worst powerscaling issue Narita came up with

Honestly Byakuya should be much stronger than Yoruichi considering his extra buff from RG training and onscreen feats

 

[SilentBob34]

The Nobles scaling to each other is one of the worst powerscaling issue Narita came up with

Honestly Byakuya should be much stronger than Yoruichi considering his extra buff from RG training and onscreen feats

Agree with you 100% on that lol which is another reason why I don’t think Candice’s arrows being low end lightning speed when far weaker characters from pre time skip are able to react to attacks faster than that should be a cap on her speed and therefore a lot of others characters when she directly states her arrows contain as much energy as a higher bolt of lightning.

it’s more of a do we follow Narita’s sayings vs Kubo’s direct saying you feel?

 

[Ssr4vegito]

CFYOW did give us a lot of lore and more development and screentime for Hisagi but sometimes i dud feel like i was reading a borderline fanfic , especially when it came to some characters and their abilities

At this point i'll just wait for the Hell arc to see how Kubo handles all things that Narita established in the novels , i doubt he will completely ignore CFYOW

Honestly i wanna see Tosen vs Tokinada in Hell even though it possibly won't happen

 

[Tyri456]

The Nobles scaling to each other is one of the worst powerscaling issue Narita came up with

Honestly Byakuya should be much stronger than Yoruichi considering his extra buff from RG training and onscreen feats

Because my guess is that Narita has no idea how Kubo scales, I actually think some issues will be corrected in the new hell arc.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Ion know man. Hell Arc wouldn’t change anything about the Narita stuff since it would be new keys unless they specifically talk about the Tokinada shit.

 

[Ssr4vegito]

Hikone and Aura are still alive. I wonder if they'll show up

 

[AppleLord]

Not even gonna lie, I’d rather the god tiers go back to planet level before I accept Gremmy’s galaxy room feat and all the characters that scale to it lol

Deal.

 

[AppleLord]

True but he didn’t bust Galaxy Room though, just cut his way out via spatial hax. Gremmy’s hax being at this level doesn’t really affect anyone unless I forgot something.

imagine if he did bust out via some kind of supernova attack? that would’ve been pretty cool but after he busted out he easily killed Gremmy’s 6 clones with a single slash. Granted Gremmy may not have been expecting it and honestly, I’d have to reread the fight again. But at the absolute best in all circumstances, Gremmy could be 3C with 6 clones with no one scaling to him.
And again, even then it messes up scaling because Yhwach was able to suppress and seal Gremmy in the past which would mean base Yhwach and Bankai Yamamoto would still scale to Galaxy level which doesn’t seem accurate with the portrayal. Buuut this is just my opinion so imma let you and other more knowledgeable members give theirs on this.

Yhwach fought one Gremmy, not six Gremmys. He wouldn't scale and neither would Yama.

 

[Ssr4vegito]

Somebody on Klub Outside should ask Kubo about the DC of the Top tiers but i doubt he will give a proper answer

 

[Tyri456]

True but he didn’t bust Galaxy Room though, just cut his way out via spatial hax. Gremmy’s hax being at this level doesn’t really affect anyone unless I forgot something.

This by the way, dunno why all the people are bringing up physical stats. Of course if you take that way you can’t create a scaling, but being just hax is the explanation for the feat.

 

[AppleLord]

Imagine saying in a debate that Gremmy can create planets and thrown them at people, you get laughed at because he has never created something that big because is not in his profile as hax. Well, ****. Me. Then.

 

[Ssr4vegito]

What about this drawing by Kubo? How do y'all interpret it

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Gremmy’s head exploded and a solar system came flying out instead of brains.

 

[Ssr4vegito]

4B Gremmy

 

[Reio35]

Somebody on Klub Outside should ask Kubo about the DC of the Top tiers but i doubt he will give a proper answer

Some people have but kubo hasn't responded as of yet. He only answers about 6 questions per week. I'd imagine he probably gets 100s per week.

 

[USklaverei]

Arc became one with Imade ????

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Arc became one with Imade ????

Gin gave me the honor of wearing it

Also y’all complaining about Narita scaling when it ain’t even bad

 

[YukaSama4]

Nah it is, it says Ginjo’s Getsuga rivals Ichigo’s strongest one which doesn't make any sense given that the next line says Tokinada made a counter defense and deflected it or affected its direction and you know how dumb is this because obviously, Tokinada can not do that with true Bankai Ichigo whom we scale at "possibly Low 2-C with Gran Rey Cero Getsuga Tenshou, higher with Bankai" unless we are gonna say Tokinada is possibly low 2C
There are other slight things ofc which won't break the manga scaling that much and there are good things that support the manga

maybe Narita is a fullbring scaling supporter

 

[Khaostichny]

Nah it is, it says Ginjo’s Getsuga rivals Ichigo’s strongest one which doesn't make any sense given that the next line says Tokinada made a counter defense and deflected it or affected its direction and you know how dumb is this because obviously, Tokinada can not do that with true Bankai Ichigo whom we scale at "possibly Low 2-C with Gran Rey Cero Getsuga Tenshou, higher with Bankai" unless we are gonna say Tokinada is possibly low 2C
There are other slight things ofc which won't break the manga scaling that much and there are good things that support the manga

maybe Narita is a fullbring scaling supporter

I don't remember any part of the novel mentioning this. Instead, there is a part where Ginjo says he would be killed instantly by Ichigo's getsuga, when Tokinada tries to copy Zangetsu.

 

[SilentBob34]

I don't remember any part of the novel mentioning this. Instead, there is a part where Ginjo says he would be killed instantly by Ichigo's getsuga, when Tokinada tries to copy Zangetsu.

No it 100% was and is one of the reasons people find the scaling in the novel to be so wonky. Also Ginjo just said he would’ve been beaten instantly by Ichigo’s Zangetsu when Tokinada tried to copy it, not his getsuga tenshou.

my biggest problem is that people just accept Narita saying Candice’s arrows are slower than lightning speed when in the manga Kubo has her directly state her arrows contain as many gigs joules that the high end of lightning speed would have

 

[SilentBob34]

Yhwach fought one Gremmy, not six Gremmys. He wouldn't scale and neither would Yama.

Yeah neither of us can prove if Yhwach fought one or six Gremmy’s so it’s kinda just left up in the air you feel?

 

[Creed100]

1-)kubo has officially answered that yhwach can use the power of other letters?

2-)probably gremmy was stronger than yhwach without the A

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

• Fairly certain you can interpret the Ginjo quote differently/VIZ translated it weird
• Increasing speed is not the only way to increase the energy of lightning bolts, mass increases energy too, if you have an issue with the sub-lightning speed Candice then argue the novels aren’t canon. Nevertheless, they exist big whoop, Bleach is slower than you thought.
• base Yhwach > Shikai Yama > CFYOW Byakuya > Giant Gerard ~ no eyepatch Shikai Kenny > 7 Gremmy. Aka Gremmy with his clones is beneath base Yhwach.

The end of the day CFYOW hasn’t brought in any contradictions (that are significant) that cant be explained away by altering your interpretation. Prime example, young Baraggan ~ Ikomikidomoe, some people argue that means Espada Baraggan solos CFYOW Grimmjow (which is controversial and can bring up scaling contradictions imo), however that can be argued away by saying younger Baraggan was stronger or if you wanna die on Espada Baraggan being a top tier of the verse, you can argue stuff like Grimmjow not having any scaling in TYBW or Tsukishima getting weaker. The novels don’t have these big contradictions if you take time to think, it just has scaling that is “unpopular”.

 

[Reio35]

No it 100% was and is one of the reasons people find the scaling in the novel to be so wonky. Also Ginjo just said he would’ve been beaten instantly by Ichigo’s Zangetsu when Tokinada tried to copy it, not his getsuga tenshou.

my biggest problem is that people just accept Narita saying Candice’s arrows are slower than lightning speed when in the manga Kubo has her directly state her arrows contain as many gigs joules that the high end of lightning speed would have

Kubo just gave narita the basics like the lore and plot. Lighting speed stuff was probably narita's idea


Q28:
Are the contents and lore of the "BLEACH WE DO knot ALWAYS LOVE YOU" and "BLEACH Can't Fear Your Own World" novels largely decided on by you?
A28:
I came up with and shared the contents and lore with the two writers, but left the portrayal to them. Whenever there was something they didn't understand along the way they would come to consult with me.

 

[Thehunter077]

The Nobles scaling to each other is one of the worst powerscaling issue Narita came up with

Honestly Byakuya should be much stronger than Yoruichi considering his extra buff from RG training and onscreen feats

Wait... So Byakuya after trained with RG only par with Yoruichi?

 

[Ssr4vegito]

Wait... So Byakuya after trained with RG only par with Yoruichi?

Well it does say they have comparable reiatsu and people use it for scaling Nobles to each other but honestly i see it like Yama and Aizen situation where they have comparable reiatsu but one edges out other in terms raw AP and other skills

 

[Ssr4vegito]

• Fairly certain you can interpret the Ginjo quote differently/VIZ translated it weird
• Increasing speed is not the only way to increase the energy of lightning bolts, mass increases energy too, if you have an issue with the sub-lightning speed Candice then argue the novels aren’t canon. Nevertheless, they exist big whoop, Bleach is slower than you thought.
• base Yhwach > Shikai Yama > CFYOW Byakuya > Giant Gerard ~ no eyepatch Shikai Kenny > 7 Gremmy. Aka Gremmy with his clones is beneath base Yhwach.

The end of the day CFYOW hasn’t brought in any contradictions (that are significant) that cant be explained away by altering your interpretation. Prime example, young Baraggan ~ Ikomikidomoe, some people argue that means Espada Baraggan solos CFYOW Grimmjow (which is controversial and can bring up scaling contradictions imo), however that can be argued away by saying younger Baraggan was stronger or if you wanna die on Espada Baraggan being a top tier of the verse, you can argue stuff like Grimmjow not having any scaling in TYBW or Tsukishima getting weaker. The novels don’t have these big contradictions if you take time to think, it just has scaling that

Wasn't Grimmjow compared to Noitora by Kenpachi?

Was there any mention that Barragan became weaker than the time with Ikomikidomoe? IDK how Grimmjow being weaker than Baraggan affect the scaling

 

[Blallooo]

I honestly always intended Hallibel statement as referred to the past times, something like "when Aizen and Barragan were around Grimmjow wouldn't dare attack them"

 

[Luziifero]

would lille's x axis have infinite attack speed since It's an instantaneous effect. Nothing is crossed nor nothing moves, and it can't be dodged?