- 5,669
- 4,898
ill let reio respond since he made that crt
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion
- Thread starter Zoro21043
- Start date
- 252
- 171
- 5,669
- 4,898
do you have the statement its brain washing
- 342
- 174
Okay but why does empathic manipulation differ from mind hax in the first place
Just curious
Just curious
- 5,669
- 4,898
- 342
- 174
Yeah this was a cool post BUT
1. There's lots of symbolism that Ichigo was going to be a 4 way hybrid anyways so that's pretty much something that was planned from the start.
2. Half of this is Kubo leaving shit open so that he could expand upon it later. He's really good at that, which is pretty great because the payoff is usually quite nice, but some things like the Ichibē one is more of a happy coincidence if anything.
- 2,954
- 1,440
Later i don't have it on me
- 11,616
- 3,135
Yes it was stated to not exist. Nothing regarding as exclusive of Kenny.
- 13,587
- 5,754
Never said it was perpetually out. I said it is a constant release. Which it is. His Zanpakuto is always released and never enters a sealed form. Since it is always out in his “Shinigami form”, which is just his soul, it is still released even while his soul inhabits his body.
No. It was said that Kenny’s was one because of his power and lack of control over it but they were wrong because that was always his base sword, they just didn’t know any better. This means Kenny’s isn’t a constant release, not that the concept doesn’t exist. Ichigo’s (in whatever form that has Shinigami powers not from Rukia) is very blatantly his Shikai, he achieves it against Kisuke and it never gets sealed for 6 months (Yoruichi even highlights this and explains that it’s a constant release), he gets one in Lost Agent and whenever he pops out his soul, it’s shown to be always released. Nimaiya forges an Asauchi for Ichigo and when it’s ready for Ichigo to pull out, it’s his True Shikai and not a sealed Zanpakuto. When he vibes in SKP, it’s always his True Shikai.
- 11,616
- 3,135
Kubo decided to write that info in the story for the reason of telling us heir theory that constant release existed was wrong.
His old zanpakutou was a pseudo blade.
- 5,669
- 4,898
was this applied to aizen already
- 11,616
- 3,135
Not related to the last page.
Clearly stated that their theory that such thing existed was wrong.
Do we even see Urahara stated that this was his shikai? Or any reliable source? Isshin can use Getsuga Tenshi without using shikai.
Not even confirmed to be shikai. Just shinigami + fullbring powers.
Nimaiya creates sealed zanpakutou asauchi for soul reapers. He doesn't create constant shikai swords.
Loyd
He/Him- 3,161
- 1,209
yes Aizen can control his opponent’s 5 standard senses, spiritual perception/reikaku, and sense of time)
- 13,587
- 5,754
I don’t even know what you mean by “not related to the last page.” Random words do t convey anything.
Go get the scan saying that constant release swords definitively aren’t a thing because Byakuya is only theorising while Yoruichi straight up tells Ichigo they exist back in SS. Do you think Byakuya is a more knowledgeable source than Yoruichi? Everything Byakuya has that props him up as a reputable source is shared by Yoruichi while she also has Kisuke for a friend who info dumps shit on her.
Yoruichi tells him it’s a constant release. Ichigo used Getsuga Tensho with Rukia’s Zanpakuto. Shiba’s just don’t care what form they are in when they use Getsuga Tenshou.
And I guess when Ichigo says Bankai, it’s not a Bankai even though it follows the same mechanics of a Bankai when it gets broken. Ichigo called it a Shikai, everyone called it a Shikai, he knows his Zanpakuto’s True Name and constantly calls it out but the form never changes despite his Zanpakuto functioning like any other one.
That’s my point. Nimaiya creates blank swords that your soul imprints upon. Ichigo grabbed it and when he pulls it out, it’s his Shikai. Zangetsu is simply a constant release. End of story.
- 11,616
- 3,135
The feeling was mutual.
He is saying his theory about it was wrong.
Scan?
Yoruichi may have heard the same theory thing Byakuya heard about the constant release been a thing.
Scan?
Thanks for conceding to this point.
I said is not a real one but pseudo and then one broken had shinigami powers from all the captains and fullbring powers.
Scan of Ichigo calling it shikai?
Ichigo was able to release one of his swords and went into his resurrection looking horn form which contradicts a shikai been able to release because they don't release twice. And before you say he didn't release, Ichigo's sword transform aka turn white and he told Yhwach he released his hollow power which is what arrancars do when releasing, they go to how their hollow form looked like which in this case is White for Ichigo who fused with his soul powers at birth..
- 252
- 171
Yes, u can cek the profil
- 1,168
- 976
HERE WE GO AGAIN.
- 13,587
- 5,754
Don’t know why when I actually brought up something relevant to the topic while you were just flapping your lips.
No. He said “Perhaps a constant release type never existed in the first place”. Verbatim. He didn’t have a theory and is now saying it’s wrong. His theory is that constant release types don’t exist, which is objectively false.
Here. Chapter 120 if you want to check yourself.
Why would Yoruichi have heard the same thing as Byakuya? Byakuya is only aware of it via Kenpachi. Yoruichi pulled up to SS after a hundred years.
Didn’t concede shit but you do you.
And they always function exactly like how a Zanpakuto should. That means everything they do falls under the possibilities of an actual Zanpakuto.
Ichigo literally performs a Shikai Release in his training with Kisuke.
No. The larger Zangetsu turning white isn’t a Shikai release at all. That is drawing out more of his Hollow power and a side effect of his transformation just like the horn and tattoos. That’s not a Shikai release at all. With your logic, putting on his Hollow Mask is a Shikai Release. What Ichigo did is more akin to Tosen using Resurrección than it is a Shikai Release since it doesn’t actually have shit to do with his swords besides the fact that his right sword is his Hollow powers.
Last edited:
- 5,669
- 4,898
anyone have this statement
- 13,587
- 5,754
If it’s from 13 Blades, here are the Squad 10 scans from it.
Edit: If there are cool statements, send the translations my way.
- 13,587
- 5,754
Same reason we don’t have Unmasked in English or coloured Bleach in English. Jump apparently doesn’t want our money.
- 5,669
- 4,898
ouch
- 11,616
- 3,135
I saw no relevance to the current point I brought up, but nothing is stopping you from trying again.
Meaning he was under the impression that the constant release type (plural/general dialogue aka not Kenpachi) existed but now he was proven wrong.
Yep, same thing Byakuya heard.
Both work for the same society that holds a lot of secrets and lies.
Yes.
Okay, so can you provide the scan where is says that she heard it from someone else?
You literally said the same thing I said in different words. You agreed. LMAO
Ichigo already had his zanpakutous spirit connection unlike those other guys that needed time to bond with this blank sword and learn shikai.
He summon his zanpakutou. You are saying a broken hill is his real base form. LMAO
I never said it was a shikai. LOL I said a resurrection. smh
Nice theory.
Lol no
Last edited:
- 1,095
- 373
I can’t with Apple sometimes lol. Like his logic literally blows my mind and not in a good way
- 5,227
- 3,366
Now that SK's stabilization feat is valid again, could it be used for an infinite stamina rating? Given that he constantly stabilizes the realms and has done so for at least a million years with zero indication of exhaustion, he was also intended to do this for essentially all of time.
It's also supported by the fact that he has all 3 types of Self Sustenance and by the fact that the Hogyoku which required a piece of the Soul King is what gives Aizen infinite stamina.
It's also supported by the fact that he has all 3 types of Self Sustenance and by the fact that the Hogyoku which required a piece of the Soul King is what gives Aizen infinite stamina.
- 342
- 174
People, firstly we do not have enough info on what's what anyways (Ichigo had his old "shikai" back in the hell oneshot without any dual swords, don't you think something's up with that?) and on top of that, most of the "always released" stuff you're both arguing about isn't even when he was actually using shinigami powers. Both quincy powers and hollow powers have only one release form anyways, and considering breaking the halo of a Volständig is semi permanent and that a resurrecion of a hollow is similar to a bankai according to Urahara, it acting as a pseudo bankai even in that breaking it is permanent is pretty consistent anyways.
Furthermore after Nimiya forged a new asauchi for him, he did once again release his sword, when he grabbed it while it was burning hot (when he evaporated the "ocean") and while Nimiya himself only made one sword, he pulled out two (meaning he could've released his shikai). It's pretty in character for Ichigo to not "unrelease" his sword (he went through the entire arrancar arc with bankai on, are you going to argue that he has a constant release bankai now?) so it isn't too far off to imagine he simply kept his sword released. Again, the hell one-shot showed that his base sword might be shaped like old zangetsu.
If this isn't true and what he pulled out was an asauchi, even that can be pretty consistent if you think that the white zangetsu+vasto lorde horn is what his shikai is. It could very well be true for all we know.
The point of presenting multiple theories here is that there are multiple thematically consistent explanations for his powers, we just didn't see the "correct one" because Bleach was rushed in the end due to Kubo's injuries. So why argue about something that isn't even proven? Theorising is a different issue, but debating when no one had any verifiable "truth", so to speak, seems pretty pointless IMHO.
Furthermore after Nimiya forged a new asauchi for him, he did once again release his sword, when he grabbed it while it was burning hot (when he evaporated the "ocean") and while Nimiya himself only made one sword, he pulled out two (meaning he could've released his shikai). It's pretty in character for Ichigo to not "unrelease" his sword (he went through the entire arrancar arc with bankai on, are you going to argue that he has a constant release bankai now?) so it isn't too far off to imagine he simply kept his sword released. Again, the hell one-shot showed that his base sword might be shaped like old zangetsu.
If this isn't true and what he pulled out was an asauchi, even that can be pretty consistent if you think that the white zangetsu+vasto lorde horn is what his shikai is. It could very well be true for all we know.
The point of presenting multiple theories here is that there are multiple thematically consistent explanations for his powers, we just didn't see the "correct one" because Bleach was rushed in the end due to Kubo's injuries. So why argue about something that isn't even proven? Theorising is a different issue, but debating when no one had any verifiable "truth", so to speak, seems pretty pointless IMHO.
- 342
- 174
Soul King should have unlimited stamina, Aizen already has it on his profile and Yhwach probably can't get it because he returns to a sense deprived vegetative state if he doesn't get back his soul parts.
- 13,587
- 5,754
Except it wasn’t something you brought up. I did. Because Kenpachi is the only other person stated to have a constant release type but was directly proven to not have one whereas Ichigo was not and repeatedly shown to do what a constant release type would.
No. He theorises they don’t exist. Nothing was actually proven besides Kenpachi not being a constant release type.
No. Ichigo brings up Kenpachi as a comparison and she agrees because to her knowledge at the time, Kenpachi had one. That doesn’t mean Ichigo doesn’t.
Not when Yoruichi made the statement.
Prove she only knows via Kenpachi who she didn’t even mention herself. Her explanation is about the mechanics and different releases of Zanpakuto. Did she get all of that info from observing Kenpachi? No, it’s based on knowledge that she already had.
No. You brought up Isshin using GT in base (for whatever reason), and I brought up Ichigo doing the same but with someone else’s Zanpakuto. GT isn’t a Shikai only technique and I never bothered to even try arguing it was. Conceding means I disagreed with the stance and I never did. That means I didn’t concede. Go crack open a dictionary before you start using words you don’t know the meaning of.
So did Toshiro. Why was it never brought up that Toshiro’s Asauchi instantly turned into a Shikai upon him holding it? They bothered telling us how much of a prodigy he was like graduating in a year, youngest captain etc but not instantly achieving Shikai?
Kisuke repeatedly calls the broken sword his Zanpakuto. Ichigo calls out his Zanpakuto’s name. It ******* transforms. That’s a Shikai Release.
So it’s completely irrelevant then? Good to know you keep spouting **** all relevant. Oh wait! You lied
You are conflating Resurrección and Hollowfication (they are different) and then conflating that with Shikai by saying he can’t release Shikai because he is using Hollowfication. Visoreds very much can use both Hollowfication and their Zanpakuto’s Release states. We know for a fact that Ichigo can when he uses Bankai while Hollowfying during his Visored Training and then when Zangetsu retains Bankai when he takes over Ichigo’s body in the canopy.
It’s stated exactly what Ichigo was doing in that fight to draw forth his Hollow power. Once he has enough Quincy reiatsu to draw forth his Hollow side, the sword turned white and he gained the sword and tattoos. There is no theory here. We get told and shown that this is what happened.
Except it is. That’s how your own argument works but you disagree when the glaring flaws in it are pointed out because it is some of the dumbest shit to have ever been mentioned.
You understand I am not agreeing with you right? I am saying it is more akin to Tosen than it is a Shikai Release because Resurrección is infinitely closer to Hollowfication than Shikai is. That doesn’t make it a Resurrección because Ichigo has never had a Resurrección, only Hollowfication. And yes those are two separate things. Need to say this in case you get another stupid idea to start arguing this as well.
- 342
- 174
If Ichigo, during fighting Urahara, actually did a shikai release, then when Ichigo picks up his asauchi it's again a shikai release.
1. Both end with OMZ speaking the words "Zangetsu" (end of Ch 541).
2. Both end with a massive wave of reiatsu, which is especially evident in Oetsu's forge when all the water evaporates specifically because of reiatsu.
But maybe it isn't a shikai release because:
1. Shinigami don't put their soul into their asauchi when it's being forged, it's afterwards. Since Ichigo put his soul when it was being forged, it could be that the dual sword setup is his asauchi.
2. While resureccion is definitely hollow transformation which the hollow horn and whitening of the blade meant, considering that Ichigo's hollow powers are his shinigami powers, it makes sense that the hollow half of his powers goes shikai in the form of a resureccion.
But maybe it's actually a shikai release anyways and Ichigo just kept it in shikai because he's gone for months in bankai as well. He just has that much reiatsu.
But maybe he doesn't have an asauchi form because no shinigami molds their asauchi during forging, thus the dual wield is the shape of his soul and not a blank slate as all other shinigami get. We even have another example here, Ichibē. He doesn't have a standard asauchi OR a Zanpakuto system either as his base form isn't even a sword and doesn't have an edge (which according to Nimiya is a failure in his book, if a sword doesn't have an edge and can't be sheathed. He probably due to the age difference didn't even make his sword.) But we do know that you can have a sword without having an asauchi if you already have your own power, because Ichigo exists. Ichibē's darkness manipulation and name manipulation seems like something he already has and not something that his Zanpakuto enables (because his power can't be stolen unlike Genryuusai's). Furthermore, his "shikai" can't even be called one because it has no reiatsu associated with its release and Yhwach notes that it keeps morphing back to a brush. He doesn't even have a bankai, calling it a shinuichi (since he's the name guy, you'd think he'd call everything by it's proper name. It isn't as if bankai isn't the proper name and everyone's been getting it wrong either, because Ichigo after Ichibē's training still calls his bankai a bankai). Maybe shinigami who already had their own powers don't need to have a standard asauchi/shikai/bankai system? There's even Isane's family Zanpakuto, Shinken Hakkyouken, which has no soul associated with it and doesn't even have a release. It's actually far weirder than even the two already weird examples given above, where at least they work somewhat within the rules of Zanpakuto, but this one is just a weapon stated to be a Zanpakuto but is already either released or doesn't have a release, doesn't have one person it's bound to, and is more of a family heirloom than anything else? Scratch that, there's even the Sogyoku which is something but we're not even sure what it is.
Maybe, for one moment, consider that the asauchi/shikai/bankai system isn't exactly as rigid as it seems? Consider, if you will, that since Kubo has given us no direct and clear-cut information whatsoever, theorisation might be okay but calling each other an idiot is useless, because no one's right here?
1. Both end with OMZ speaking the words "Zangetsu" (end of Ch 541).
2. Both end with a massive wave of reiatsu, which is especially evident in Oetsu's forge when all the water evaporates specifically because of reiatsu.
But maybe it isn't a shikai release because:
1. Shinigami don't put their soul into their asauchi when it's being forged, it's afterwards. Since Ichigo put his soul when it was being forged, it could be that the dual sword setup is his asauchi.
2. While resureccion is definitely hollow transformation which the hollow horn and whitening of the blade meant, considering that Ichigo's hollow powers are his shinigami powers, it makes sense that the hollow half of his powers goes shikai in the form of a resureccion.
But maybe it's actually a shikai release anyways and Ichigo just kept it in shikai because he's gone for months in bankai as well. He just has that much reiatsu.
But maybe he doesn't have an asauchi form because no shinigami molds their asauchi during forging, thus the dual wield is the shape of his soul and not a blank slate as all other shinigami get. We even have another example here, Ichibē. He doesn't have a standard asauchi OR a Zanpakuto system either as his base form isn't even a sword and doesn't have an edge (which according to Nimiya is a failure in his book, if a sword doesn't have an edge and can't be sheathed. He probably due to the age difference didn't even make his sword.) But we do know that you can have a sword without having an asauchi if you already have your own power, because Ichigo exists. Ichibē's darkness manipulation and name manipulation seems like something he already has and not something that his Zanpakuto enables (because his power can't be stolen unlike Genryuusai's). Furthermore, his "shikai" can't even be called one because it has no reiatsu associated with its release and Yhwach notes that it keeps morphing back to a brush. He doesn't even have a bankai, calling it a shinuichi (since he's the name guy, you'd think he'd call everything by it's proper name. It isn't as if bankai isn't the proper name and everyone's been getting it wrong either, because Ichigo after Ichibē's training still calls his bankai a bankai). Maybe shinigami who already had their own powers don't need to have a standard asauchi/shikai/bankai system? There's even Isane's family Zanpakuto, Shinken Hakkyouken, which has no soul associated with it and doesn't even have a release. It's actually far weirder than even the two already weird examples given above, where at least they work somewhat within the rules of Zanpakuto, but this one is just a weapon stated to be a Zanpakuto but is already either released or doesn't have a release, doesn't have one person it's bound to, and is more of a family heirloom than anything else? Scratch that, there's even the Sogyoku which is something but we're not even sure what it is.
Maybe, for one moment, consider that the asauchi/shikai/bankai system isn't exactly as rigid as it seems? Consider, if you will, that since Kubo has given us no direct and clear-cut information whatsoever, theorisation might be okay but calling each other an idiot is useless, because no one's right here?
- 342
- 174
By the way, is automated fighting in Mayuri's profile? Not sure what the correct term per se is here, but he did modify his shikai or asauchi (can't remember) to parry every sword attack, no? I can't seem to find it but it should be there I suppose.
- 11,616
- 3,135
HUGE NEWS someone posted on Reddit that they just saw that kubo posted the character designs for the Hell Arc Antagonists along with the Gotei 13 designs on Klub Outside paid membership access.
Is a silhouette but is there!
People are not allow to share images from there or their account will be terminated.
Is a silhouette but is there!
People are not allow to share images from there or their account will be terminated.
- 3,536
- 1,268
"pics or it didn't happen."
- 19,367
- 28,564
- 342
- 174
Similar threads
