BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Blallooo]

Uryu one shotted paralyzed shut down senjumaru.

He still was destroying her Bankai constructs besides even before the pseudo vollstandig, with it he's obvisously unquestionably stronger than her. Paralyzed why ? She was just entrapped, It doesn't lower her durability.

Ichigo wasn't taking it seriously in his fight against Uryu and when he did, he completely overpowered him

That's not true, he was holding back but if they weren't relative he would hsve dogged him like he did the femritters, they're definitely close to each others which is why Ichigo was seemingly using Bankai at the end. So either Renji is just that guy or ichigo was holding back horrendously against Uryu and as I said it doesn't seem the case to me. Anyway no point in discussing before watching the episode, just Uryu being at least somehow relative to TS ichigo seems pretty obvious to me

 

[GOATMAN1232000]

That's not true, he was holding back but if they weren't relative he would hsve dogged him like he did the femritters, they're definitely close to each others which is why Ichigo was seemingly using Bankai at the end. So either Renji is just that guy or ichigo was holding back horrendously against Uryu and as I said it doesn't seem the case to me. Anyway no point in discussing before watching the episode, just Uryu being at least somehow relative to TS ichigo seems pretty obvious to me

Getsuga Jujisho overpowering Uryu's strongest attack is pretty indicative that it Ichigo was indeed horrendously holding back against Uryu. Furthermore, Ichigo's power is directly tied to his mentality. Just look at his fight against Gin. FKT Ichigo was at the cusp of being transcendent, yet was struggling with Gin due to not having his head in the game. This is the same situation here. Ichigo is shaken up by Uryu's betrayal and is not at his best.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Ichigo does gets boost or downgrades depending on his mental state. I would say having ur friend on the enemy side which plans to destroy all and then having to fight him is a heavy blow to his state of mind.

 

[Excellence616]

He still was destroying her Bankai constructs besides even before the pseudo vollstandig, with it he's obvisously unquestionably stronger than her. Paralyzed why ? She was just entrapped, It doesn't lower her durability.

That's not true, he was holding back but if they weren't relative he would hsve dogged him like he did the femritters, they're definitely close to each others which is why Ichigo was seemingly using Bankai at the end. So either Renji is just that guy or ichigo was holding back horrendously against Uryu and as I said it doesn't seem the case to me. Anyway no point in discussing before watching the episode, just Uryu being at least somehow relative to TS ichigo seems pretty obvious to me

Why would Ichigo ever think of using his Bankai against a friend?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Leak images

Spoiler

 

[AppleLord]

It’s 10min fight so it’s hard to believe Uryu stomps him all the time and no difficulty, definitely base Uryu ain’t a big deal as we thought, probably his vollstading give him massive amps to S0/Ichigo’s levels but base Uryu can’t really be scaled high

Not really, we haven’t seen Renji go serious yet. All his fights were casual. Besides Base Uryu > Bankai Renji.

 

[AppleLord]

alright

Spoiler: Spoiler for people interested in uryu vs renji.

Basically, in this fight, both Renji and Uryu fought with the intent to kill each other. They didn’t hold back at all and didn’t even use each other’s names during the battle. Uryu kept calling Renji ‘Shinigami,’ and Renji called him ‘Quincy. He almost killed Uryu like 5 times in this episode, Renji used some new bankai techniques. Uryu used vollstandig. How the fight ended; Uryu used Sklaverei to drain Renji off his Reishi than used Sankt Zwinger to kill him. Uryu did not use his schrift for once in their battle. This fight was way closer than Uryu vs ichigo, which shows how strong Renji has become after the royal guard training.

Uryu killed Renji?

 

[AppleLord]

He still was destroying her Bankai constructs besides even before the pseudo vollstandig, with it he's obvisously unquestionably stronger than her. Paralyzed why ? She was just entrapped, It doesn't lower her durability.

That's not true, he was holding back but if they weren't relative he would hsve dogged him like he did the femritters, they're definitely close to each others which is why Ichigo was seemingly using Bankai at the end. So either Renji is just that guy or ichigo was holding back horrendously against Uryu and as I said it doesn't seem the case to me. Anyway no point in discussing before watching the episode, just Uryu being at least somehow relative to TS ichigo seems pretty obvious to me

Senjumaru use a needle (Shikai) on the back of Uryu’s neck even without any hax that paralyzes the anatomy of the body, using Antithesis would just swap positions with Senjumaru making her paralyzed.

 

[Blallooo]

This is the same situation here. Ichigo is shaken up by Uryu's betrayal and is not at his best.

Yeah but this excuse can only go that far. Mental state can't nerf him to the point he couldn't at least beat handily someone supposedly so much weaker than him ? Especially considering Uryu didn't use anti thesis and sklaverei so wasn't going all out by himself. From the point Uryu used vollstandig they're at least relative with ichigo being marginally stronger. Also FKT ichigo before Aizen shenanigans messing with his head could at most nick Yammi's neck with a getsuga I don't think he was anywhere near any pseudo trascendent character at that time.

Senjumaru use a needle (Shikai) on the back of Uryu’s neck even without any hax that paralyzes the anatomy of the body, using Antithesis would just swap positions with Senjumaru making her paralyzed.

She says "It will last a Moment" afaik so I think that was supposed to be a killing blow not something to paralyzed him

Why would Ichigo ever think of using his Bankai against a friend?

Because othewise he couldn't beat him ? Maybe he built enough confidence to fight to kill but Uryu used his his moment of hesitation to strike first

 

[Adam1396]

He still was destroying her Bankai constructs besides even before the pseudo vollstandig, with it he's obvisously unquestionably stronger than her. Paralyzed why ? She was just entrapped, It doesn't lower her durability.

It does lower her durability. It was yhwach who destroyed her looms not uryu.

That's not true, he was holding back but if they weren't relative he would hsve dogged him like he did the femritters, they're definitely close to each others which is why Ichigo was seemingly using Bankai at the end. So either Renji is just that guy or ichigo was holding back horrendously against Uryu and as I said it doesn't seem the case to me. Anyway no point in discussing before watching the episode, just Uryu being at least somehow relative to TS ichigo seems pretty obvious to me

Ichigo was obviously holding back even he you scale uryu to squad zero. Uryu should not even be equal to base yhwach. Ichigo is a contender of soul king yhwach.

 

[Blallooo]

It does lower her durability. It was yhwach who destroyed her looms not uryu.

She says the king awakening awakened Uryu's own power as well. Also why would her looms lower durability ? Why would she go on her way to dodge his attacks ? Also I'm talking about the constructs she creates in her Bankai that he was destroying

Ichigo was obviously holding back even he you scale uryu to squad zero. Uryu should not even be equal to base yhwach. Ichigo is a contender of soul king yhwach.

Then why didn't he subdue him easily like he did before vollstandig ? Its not like in FKT, true shikai ichigo is in harmony with zengetsu and most definitely has no troubles controlling his power. Uryu scales to usealed Senjumaru, it's undeniable and scales to the ichigo who beat up base Yhwach

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Its not like in FKT, true shikai ichigo is in harmony with zengetsu and most definitely has no troubles controlling his power. Uryu scales to usealed Senjumaru, it's undeniable and scales to the ichigo who beat up base Yhwach

Ichigo gets weaker or stronger depending on his emotional state, just like Ginjo while amp with emotions can fire that powerful getsuga.

Also even after Uryu uses his strongest attack, the getsuga was stronger and was not even fire at him showing that even then ichigo was not trying to kill him

 

[GOATMAN1232000]

Especially considering Uryu didn't use anti thesis and sklaverei so wasn't going all out by himself.

Aren't the boots and gloves a sign of Sklavarei? And the fact we see threads of reishi going into the VS transformation?

From the point Uryu used vollstandig they're at least relative with ichigo being marginally stronger.

Except Ichigo wasn't giving his all in that fight. In my opinion, the only time when he did was when Getsuga Jijisho clashed with Starburst. And we see that Getsuga Jujisho is stronger.

Also FKT ichigo before Aizen shenanigans messing with his head could at most nick Yammi's neck with a getsuga I don't think he was anywhere near any pseudo trascendent character at that time.

Ichigo's dip in his mentality was not solely caused by Aizen. It is caused by his fear of White. Which started after Byakuya's fight, but was made much worse after he killed Ulquiorra.

Anyway, it seems like I have moved away from my original point. Which was that even if Renji pushes Uryu into VS (which I doubt tbh), he wouldn't scale to TS Ichigo.

 

[Blallooo]

Ichigo gets weaker or stronger depending on his emotional state, just like Ginjo while amp with emotions can fire that powerful getsuga.

Also even after Uryu uses his strongest attack, the getsuga was stronger and was not even fire at him showing that even then ichigo was not trying to kill him

Correct but I'm not denying ichigo being stronger I'm saying Uryu is relative to him and holding back or not of the gap is too big they can't fight mostly evenly like that

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Yes, we've known that for 10-15 years

That's true, but I didn't see it on the profiles.

 

[GinDan]

First of all scaling if squad zero and reio candidates have very different scaling even if squad zero is 2C.

I already mentioned this before. Uryu one shotted paralyzed shut down senjumaru.
Answer about his fight with ichigo is obvious.
And apart from novel zaraki nobody from gotei scales anywhere close to squad zero. Even strongest one yamamoto would still scale much below if we were to take highest meta for yamamoto

Kenpachi Zaraki isn’t on the level of Ichibei or Senjumaru, not by a long shot. He doesn’t have any hax abilities. Base Pernida nearly killed Zaraki, not to mention Mayuri was able to paralyze him. Adult Toshiro is stronger than him too. We need to stop overestimating Zaraki; he’s not a top 4 or even top 5 captain.

 

[Excellence616]

Kenpachi Zaraki isn’t on the level of Ichibei or Senjumaru, not by a long shot. He doesn’t have any hax abilities. Base Pernida nearly killed Zaraki, not to mention Mayuri was able to paralyze him. Adult Toshiro is stronger than him too. We need to stop overestimating Zaraki; he’s not a top 4 or even top 5 captain.

Tell me you are joking?

 

[Saibotsan]

Renji being relative to sklaverei amped Uryu is crazy but then Renji one shot Mask that murked 2 captains we never really got where he caps

But this also makes him relative to Shikai Ichigo

Renji>>Yamamoto??

 

[Bastolan27]

Except Ichigo wasn't giving his all in that fight. In my opinion, the only time when he did was when Getsuga Jijisho clashed with Starburst. And we see that Getsuga Jujisho is stronger.

Getsuga Jujisho is Ichigo’s strongest attack, but it doesn’t scale to his physicals or any of his other Shikai techniques. This means that Getsuga Jujisho being stronger than Starburst doesn’t mean Ichigo was holding back a major part of his power. Plus, Ichigo and Uryu are pretty close in speed; Ichigo had to use Blut to protect himself at one point and even ended up with a hole in him.

The leak might be massively exaggerated, so stop worrying y’all.

 

[GinDan]

Tell me you are joking?

Nah honestly CYFOW was written before the anime, so a lot of things have changed. Currently, CYFOW Zaraki doesn’t even come close to Renji or Byakuya, and Senjumaru is on another level entirely. Oetsu took out the Schutzstaffel, while Zaraki gets crushed by Pernida. But CYFOW might no longer be canon, so we need to stop all this hype over Zaraki.
Ukitake with mimihagi > yama > Kyoraku or Toshiro > Byakuya > Mayuri > Zaraki

 

[M_Animefan]

Uryu killed Renji?

Basically put a whole in him, much worse than ichigo.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Nah honestly CYFOW was written before the anime, so a lot of things have changed. Currently, CYFOW Zaraki doesn’t even come close to Renji or Byakuya, and Senjumaru is on another level entirely. Oetsu took out the Schutzstaffel, while Zaraki gets crushed by Pernida. But CYFOW might no longer be canon, so we need to stop all this hype over Zaraki.
Ukitake with mimihagi > yama > Kyoraku or Toshiro > Byakuya > Mayuri > Zaraki

So close to thinking this is a Raven alt

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

bub really said "Mayuri > Zaraki"

 

[Hellscream]

Nah honestly CYFOW was written before the anime, so a lot of things have changed. Currently, CYFOW Zaraki doesn’t even come close to Renji or Byakuya, and Senjumaru is on another level entirely. Oetsu took out the Schutzstaffel, while Zaraki gets crushed by Pernida. But CYFOW might no longer be canon, so we need to stop all this hype over Zaraki.
Ukitake with mimihagi > yama > Kyoraku or Toshiro > Byakuya > Mayuri > Zaraki

Bro read going to the beach

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Getsuga Jujisho overpowering Uryu's strongest attack is pretty indicative that it Ichigo was indeed horrendously holding back against Uryu. Furthermore, Ichigo's power is directly tied to his mentality. Just look at his fight against Gin. FKT Ichigo was at the cusp of being transcendent, yet was struggling with Gin due to not having his head in the game. This is the same situation here. Ichigo is shaken up by Uryu's betrayal and is not at his best.

Not to mention he also intentionally aimed Getsuga Juujishou to miss Uryu. Uryu admitted Ichigo could've killed him base to base.

I still find it weird that Renji of all people godstomps Yamamoto technically by these feats. Until we get some kinda retcon on his power, that man is on fraud watch.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Nah honestly CYFOW was written before the anime, so a lot of things have changed. Currently, CYFOW Zaraki doesn’t even come close to Renji or Byakuya, and Senjumaru is on another level entirely. Oetsu took out the Schutzstaffel, while Zaraki gets crushed by Pernida. But CYFOW might no longer be canon, so we need to stop all this hype over Zaraki.
Ukitake with mimihagi > yama > Kyoraku or Toshiro > Byakuya > Mayuri > Zaraki

Kenpachi by CFYOW feats still stomps all of them at once. Let's be honest here. The anime doesn't change Kenpachi's position in terms of power in the verse, the novel still makes it very clear that the barrier between Squad 0 and Kenpachi is still immensely high.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I still find it weird that Renji of all people godstomps Yamamoto technically by these feats. Until we get some kinda retcon on his power, that man is on fraud watch.

Power of the sick ass intro, which maybe should have gave this away huh

 

[Saibotsan]

Not to mention he also intentionally aimed Getsuga Juujishou to miss Uryu. Uryu admitted Ichigo could've killed him base to base.

I still find it weird that Renji of all people godstomps Yamamoto technically by these feats. Until we get some kinda retcon on his power, that man is on fraud watch.

Let me man be, he deserves a "W"

Uryu on the other hand having one of the longest W streak in the series

 

[Aernasilver]

Yama wankers in shambles.

Renji haters in shambles.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

I can't wait to bring up in a debate that Yama can't beat Kenpachi because he's a Renji victim

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Aight let’s not do any preemptive coping before the episode proper drops

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Aight let’s not do any preemptive coping before the episode proper drops

renji slams

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Aight let’s not do any preemptive coping before the episode proper drops

No. Renji >>>>>>Gotei 13

Cry about it

 

[GinDan]

bub really said "Mayuri > Zaraki"

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

These goons can’t read when did I say Renji can’t be that strong?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Honestly, if legit, this does give a lot of credence to what the anime implied during Unohana's death speech what with showing Renji and Byakuya among the likes of Ichigo and Yhwach

Though that's kinda crazy indeed

 

[Tyri456]

Yama wankers in shambles.

Renji haters in shambles.

Using novel Yama would get up scaled massively to whatever Renji and Byakuya are, CFYOW put Shikai Yama massively above Byakuya who’s above Renji, let alone bankai Yama.

Unless we just discard those and say Kubo is taking his own path, they are kinda old

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Using novel Yama would get up scaled massively to whatever Renji and Byakuya are, CFYOW put Shikai Yama massively above Byakuya who’s above Renji, let alone bankai Yama.

Unless we just discard those and say Kubo is taking his own path, they are kinda old

Is Byakuya ever stated to be above Post RG Bankai Renji? And also depending on which version of Byakuya scales, it wouldn’t necessarily upscale Yama. Since it’s base Yoruichi ~ base Byakuya ~ base Tokinada. So again I say, don’t preemptively cope

 

[Tyri456]

Is Byakuya ever stated to be above Post RG Bankai Renji? And also depending on which version of Byakuya scales, it wouldn’t necessarily upscale Yama. Since its base Yoruichi ~ base Byakuya ~ base Tokinada. So again I say, don’t preemptively cope

I’m chill until the ep come out, but Renji is gonna fight base Gerard too in his next fight, I just think this situation need to be think deeply.

 

[Tyri456]

Back stab in bleach are super effective, tell mayuri to fight zaraki face to face, he ain’t gonna scratch him unless some prep time thing.