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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

Tyri456 said:
You know thats irrelevant saying "pre FB arc zaraki" as if it is weak when that zaraki has tons feats in novel and is canonically stronger than TYBWA Shunsui right? 😭😭😭

Most of sternitter dont go past by fullbring arc zaraki either
Click to expand...
Stronger than Shunsui in physicals definitely yes. Doesn't say a lot tho, Shunsui is relative to Starrk who's quite inferior to like Robert or Mask. I don't think anything directly puts pre muken kenpachi above vollstandig sternritters, if there is remind me
 
Blallooo said:
Stronger than Shunsui in physicals definitely yes. Doesn't say a lot tho, Shunsui is relative to Starrk who's quite inferior to like Robert or Mask. I don't think anything directly puts pre muken kenpachi above vollstandig sternritters, if there is remind me
Click to expand...
Its not like saying vollstading sternitter is a feat or anything you know right.
All people you mentioned cant even overpower Barragan's respira, given Grimmjow in CFYOW could not. Zaraki could do it. Also shunsui aint that weak either given he could kept up to Tokinada who base to base is similar to Byakuya. IDK why they are so lowballed, Cien and Azashiro are strong af and would def scale above lot of the TYBWA cast if we take more seriously author's scaling.

SAFWY zaraki > CFYOW grimmjow
 
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Tyri456 said:
Question of the day, BLEACH manga:

Better Black and White or Colored?
Click to expand...
Black and White for me. Kubo is too good with them to ruin the manga with colors.

I'm fine with colors if they are use sporadically , like putting colors in the eye or a splash of blood to emphasize them in certain moments, but not more than that.
 
Blallooo said:
Stronger than Shunsui in physicals definitely yes. Doesn't say a lot tho, Shunsui is relative to Starrk who's quite inferior to like Robert or Mask. I don't think anything directly puts pre muken kenpachi above vollstandig sternritters, if there is remind me
Click to expand...
There's actually no evidence to suggest voldstanding sternritter are superior to safwy zaraki aside from gerard, pernida, non voldstanding gremmy. Shunsui probably mentioned safwy zaraki, azashiro are superior to him, which is narratively correct. Every kenpachi should be much stronger than captains.

Royd is just lot stronger than he is given credit for. 80% of yhwach's power is not a joke, still should be superior than other sternritter. Bro just faced a super strong guys just like yamamoto, ichibei were clowned by stronger opponents.
I think a lot would be clearer when we revise gremmy actually, but we are waiting for next cour to see how it affects scaling of others. And I don’t think gremmy's galaxy feat is outlier anymore.

I'm more curious for adult toshiro's massive upgrade.
 
Muken being "likely", "like", "almost", "illusion to be like", etc don't matter. In the end a fragment of infinity is still in the end infinity. It can't be divided with mathematical equations.
 
Tyri456 said:
Its not like saying vollstading sternitter is a feat or anything you know right.
All people you mentioned cant even overpower Barragan's respira, given Grimmjow in CFYOW could not. Zaraki could do it. Also shunsui aint that weak either given he could kept up to Tokinada who base to base is similar to Byakuya. IDK why they are so lowballed, Cien and Azashiro are strong af and would def scale above lot of the TYBWA cast if we take more seriously author's scaling.

SAFWY zaraki > CFYOW grimmjow
Click to expand...
Grimmjow only scaling to sternritters is against base nerfed Bambies without their 2 big power ups who held for prolonged time Hikone who's >> ikomikidomoe and cfyow patched Zaraki, the guy who took on Gremmy. Barragan is canonically Starrk's victim and Starrk is by feats weaker than multiple vollstandig sternritters and I mean Mask, Robert, Bambi, Bazz, Liltotto...
Tokinada scaling is also all over the place, he's supposedly Byakuya level yet almost got oneshotted by Kensei who's weaker than base Mask who's far weaker than Renji who by himself is inferior to Byakuya , novel scaling is inconsistent.
 
Bleach lore main Shinigami page minor addition:

vsbattles.com

Bleach minor "Shinigami" clothes addition

The Symbiotic Nature of Shinigami Robes and Reiatsu has always existed in the show The Shinigami robes, also known as Shihakushō, are more than mere garments. They are an integral part of a Shinigami's identity and function, intricately linked to their reiatsu, or spiritual energy. This...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Ichibei is able to pull black from Urahara's hat. The stripes in his hat should be green in color, but Ichibei is able to affect it. I've heard that this is because it's supposed to be a meta thing. Since it is a manga, and a manga is black and white in color, Ichibei is pulling the black of the manga panel itself. Has there been new information to disprove this? And if it's still valid, what would this give Ichibei?

edit: the manga panel in question:
0608-015.png
 
Found a citation error on Yhwach's profile. On citation 36 (the one that provides the link to Reio seeing the events playing out in that moment several millions of years ago), that chapter listed is chapter 613. However, the actual chapter is supposed to be chapter 612.
 
GOATMAN1232000 said:
Found a citation error on Yhwach's profile. On citation 36 (the one that provides the link to Reio seeing the events playing out in that moment several millions of years ago), that chapter listed is chapter 613. However, the actual chapter is supposed to be chapter 612.
Click to expand...
Request to get it opened to fix it in the all purpose thread.
 
GOATMAN1232000 said:
Can you link me the thread? And I'd rather that someone more experienced fix it. I'm pretty new to the wiki so there is a possibility that I might mess something up.
Click to expand...
vsbattles.com

All-purpose request thread (New forum)

Use this thread for important staff requests that are not covered by more specialised topics or forums. All staff members should preferably subscribe to it.
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

Here's the thread im advance. Although, I can take care of it once I get time in about 45 minutes.
 
Blallooo said:
...
Tokinada scaling is also all over the place, he's supposedly Byakuya level yet almost got oneshotted by Kensei who's weaker than base Mask who's far weaker than Renji who by himself is inferior to Byakuya , novel scaling is inconsistent.
Click to expand...
A lot of people glance over the possibility that Kensei (as well as Rose and Rangiku) got massively amped post Zombie revival. It’s already a canon and established thing that Bleach characters get massively stronger after life or death experiences and near death experiences. Urahara said it, we’ve seen it with Post Ulq fight Ichigo, it was a plot point for Kenny’s Muken training, and we’ve seen it with Toshiro all through the Arrancar arc.

As for the ‘post zombie’ amp thing specifically, we saw Toshiro go from getting washed by Bazz B and scaling to Mayuri in Shikai, to being able to stop God Size Gerard’s full on punch. The same Gerard that was able to KO Renji and Rukia who scale to Bazz B by literally breathing on them and swatting away a (most likely casual) Byakuya’s Bankai with a hand wave

Then in his immature Bankai, Toshiro’s speed scaled to/above the God Size Gerard/Shikai Kenny w/o the eyepatch tier of speed, had the physical strength/durability to block/parry and take the force of physical blows from the same versions of both characters, and the AP to one shot (freeze to the bone) characters on that level with his maximum output

All this to say Kensei most likely got a proportionately massive amp, so him harming Tokinada and being on that Base/Shikai Byakuya and Shikai Kyoraku level isn’t a contradiction or inconsistent.
 
Jo-Smooth said:
A lot of people glance over the possibility that Kensei (as well as Rose and Rangiku) got massively amped post Zombie revival. It’s already a canon and established thing that Bleach characters get massively stronger after life or death experiences and near death experiences. Urahara said it, we’ve seen it with Post Ulq fight Ichigo, it was a plot point for Kenny’s Muken training, and we’ve seen it with Toshiro all through the Arrancar arc.
Click to expand...
What kinda Saiyan ahh shit.
 
People forget that Tokinada was heavily nerfed in the fight cuz he was putting most of his reiatsu into maintaining KS, lmao, CFYOW scaling isn't bad or all over the place, people just can't read. Also, yeah Shinigami get stronger after surviving near death encounters, so saying "oh X character did this that's all over the place" is just super lazy agenda pushing, instead of reading and reconciling what we're actually given.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
People forget that Tokinada was heavily nerfed in the fight cuz he was putting most of his reiatsu into maintaining KS, lmao, CFYOW scaling isn't bad or all over the place, people just can't read. Also, yeah Shinigami get stronger after surviving near death encounters, so saying "oh X character did this that's all over the place" is just super lazy agenda pushing, instead of reading and reconciling what we're actually given.
Click to expand...
Kubo and Narita can (and sometimes do) use that ‘life or death’/‘near death’ amp in the same way Toriyama used Zenkai boosts…..they could make the boost they get as massive or as insignificant as they want. Writing crutch? Maybe, but it’s not inconsistent writing
 
GOATMAN1232000 said:
Ichibei is able to pull black from Urahara's hat. The stripes in his hat should be green in color, but Ichibei is able to affect it. I've heard that this is because it's supposed to be a meta thing. Since it is a manga, and a manga is black and white in color, Ichibei is pulling the black of the manga panel itself. Has there been new information to disprove this? And if it's still valid, what would this give Ichibei?

edit: the manga panel in question:
0608-015.png
Click to expand...

I always liked that detail, Ichibei is inspired to have "mangaka-like" powers not simpy mastery over black, so controlling black and white is much above the simple color in this context.

In fact, he can use white to write over black or draw symbols that appears etc..
 
Jo-Smooth said:
A lot of people glance over the possibility that Kensei (as well as Rose and Rangiku) got massively amped post Zombie revival. It’s already a canon and established thing that Bleach characters get massively stronger after life or death experiences and near death experiences. Urahara said it, we’ve seen it with Post Ulq fight Ichigo, it was a plot point for Kenny’s Muken training, and we’ve seen it with Toshiro all through the Arrancar arc.
Click to expand...
not saying kensei or Rose didnt get stronger (Kensei could have just hollowfied ), but the examples are kinda baaad.

Zaraki didnt get stronger by life or death shinigami boost as u intend, he was simply removing the nerf he placed upon himself, Toshiro also consistently trained between each arc, and he is very young, and Ichigo actually was getting more powerful by tapping more on hollow powers as you can see the mask changing design + hybrid adapting, as grimmmjow compare hikone to him which is very different from the type of boost u mention. Kubo is definitely not using a lot that kind of death life boost, in fact he never really mentioned it in the whole manga except that single panel.
I would still say that can be used if u want to scale higher some chara, but just that most of times scaling is actually very clear and dont really need that. But for the zombie thing can be used if it fits ur scaling I guess.
 
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Tyri456 said:
not saying kensei or Rose didnt get stronger (Kensei could have just hollowfied ), but the examples are kinda baaad.

Zaraki didnt get stronger by life or death shinigami boost as u intend, he was simply removing the nerf he placed upon himself, Toshiro also consistently trained between each arc, and he is very young, and Ichigo actually was getting more powerful by tapping more on hollow powers as you can see the mask changing design + hybrid adapting, as grimmmjow compare hikone to him which is very different from the type of boost u mention. Kubo is definitely not using a lot that kind of death life boost, in fact he never really mentioned it in the whole manga except that single panel.
I would still say that can be used if u want to scale higher some chara, but just that most of times scaling is actually very clear and dont really need that. But for the zombie thing can be used if it fits ur scaling I guess.
Click to expand...
I always interpreted it as Kenny suppressing himself lead to him nearly dying which led to him getting boosts which put him closer to his original strength. Nearly died against Ichigo and showed up Nnoitra level. Nearly died against Nnoitra and showed up Yammy level. Even post Muken where he doesn’t deal with his subconscious suppression anymore, nearly died against Gremmy and the Femritters, healed up, severely injured by Pernida, healed up again, shows up God Size Gerard level. Severely injured in the Gerard fight, returns stronger than Hikone and Ikomi

Ichigo basic strength outside of hollow form went up as well. At <50% was able to cancel out Res Yammy’s Cero Oscuras at while his previous Masked Bankai amped Getsuga’s couldn’t damage Res Ulq. Res Yammy’s physical strength is > R2 Ulq’s entire arsenal, let alone an order of magnitude amped Cero from Yammy. He also damaged Gin who scales above the Espada, with a Getsuga. And throughout the story in general, while Ichigo is a weird case with his Zan spirits influencing his power different from anyone else, it’s still a fact that Urahara stated the fastest way to grow was through life and death experiences and proved it with Ichigo, so it’s not a stretch to say Ichigo’s growth continued like this

Toshiro went from nearly being put on a T Shirt at 20% by Fraccion Shaolong to outscaling Res Espada 6 Luppi’s 8x amped attack with a bit of charge time, then scales to Res Halibel though tbf I don’t remember if it was said he trained during the Arrancar/FKT arcs if we count them as 1 story wise, rather than between arcs like we know he does
 
Jo-Smooth said:
I always interpreted it as Kenny suppressing himself lead to him nearly dying which led to him getting boosts which put him closer to his original strength. Nearly died against Ichigo and showed up Nnoitra level. Nearly died against Nnoitra and showed up Yammy level. Even post Muken where he doesn’t deal with his subconscious suppression anymore, nearly died against Gremmy and the Femritters, healed up, severely injured by Pernida, healed up again, shows up God Size Gerard level. Severely injured in the Gerard fight, returns stronger than Hikone and Ikomi

Ichigo basic strength outside of hollow form went up as well. At <50% was able to cancel out Res Yammy’s Cero Oscuras at while his previous Masked Bankai amped Getsuga’s couldn’t damage Res Ulq. Res Yammy’s physical strength is > R2 Ulq’s entire arsenal, let alone an order of magnitude amped Cero from Yammy. He also damaged Gin who scales above the Espada, with a Getsuga. And throughout the story in general, while Ichigo is a weird case with his Zan spirits influencing his power different from anyone else, it’s still a fact that Urahara stated the fastest way to grow was through life and death experiences and proved it with Ichigo, so it’s not a stretch to say Ichigo’s growth continued like this

Toshiro went from nearly being put on a T Shirt at 20% by Fraccion Shaolong to outscaling Res Espada 6 Luppi’s 8x amped attack with a bit of charge time, then scales to Res Halibel though tbf I don’t remember if it was said he trained during the Arrancar/FKT arcs if we count them as 1 story wise, rather than between arcs like we know he does
Click to expand...
Aizen also evolved after getting hit by Korose Kamishini no Yari and had of course evolved again after Ichigo was clapping him (although both are technically Hogyoku feats) not to mention Momo surviving Toshiro's stab and actually being somewhat relevant in the war arc in the anime exclusive scenes.

Oh and also Yhwach awakening the Almighty after getting his ass handed to him by Ichibei
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
People forget that Tokinada was heavily nerfed in the fight cuz he was putting most of his reiatsu into maintaining KS, lmao, CFYOW scaling isn't bad or all over the place, people just can't read.
Click to expand...
Except the part I'm referring to is before Tokinada used kyoka suigetsu, till that moment he had just fought Shunsui for a while.
 
What I'm saying is that characters vaguely being in the same range of reiatsu doesn't mean there can't be huge gaps in stats. That's why the statement of Barragan and ikomikidomoe having relative reiatsu doesn't mean Iko doesn't dwarf in stats the respiria merchant
 
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