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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

Since the Zeref vs. Aizen thread was closed, I'll write this here
Valeska24 said:
Since Almighty is active, he shows Yhwach everything from now to the distant future, including the future in which he dies,He already sees this future that I mentioned in his dreams, and he must have seen it before the moment he died, that is, he sees KS as well. Yhwach only thinks that this future he sees is a dream, that's all
Click to expand...
What she said
Twisted_Little_Raven said:
Right but he's seeing what Aizen wants him to see. This "all futures" thing Aizen can just simply remove any of it that implies to Yhwach he is under KS. So he's technically not seeing everything. I see no evidence Yhwach knew he was under KS. So it's not some he can't negate KS, he can, if he knew he was under it. But y'all were implying even having someone who can negate powers was vulnerable to it but reality it's based on what he sees and Aizen can remove any indication the guy is under KS in all of them
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is true. Yhwach didn't see Kyoka Suigetsu (KS) because he was affected by it before he regained the Almighty. Yhwach can see infinite futures, but all futures were influenced by KS, preventing him from foreseeing one where Aizen had KS.

Additionally, I don't recall any power-nullifying abilities in Bleach working against defensive hax. Yhwach states that no ability can be used against him, which might imply it only works on offensive abilities. Therefore, he cannot nullify Shun Shun Rikka's defensive abilities.



What Nightmarefd0 said is implied in this panel
No, I say it again. You've confused the situations in the manga. The time period Yhwach said when he died in the last episode is where he was killed by Ichigo in the past episodes. And I have to tell you again that Almighty was not on Yhwach at the time, but Jugram was on it. At that time, Yhwach was sleeping and woke up because of what he thought was a dream. After waking up almighty moves on to him. Jugram showed Yhwach that Ichigo would kill him in the future.
Click to expand...

C2Ci3Yi.png
T
 
Bastolan27 said:
Since the Zeref vs. Aizen thread was closed, I'll write this here

What she said

is true. Yhwach didn't see Kyoka Suigetsu (KS) because he was affected by it before he regained the Almighty. Yhwach can see infinite futures, but all futures were influenced by KS, preventing him from foreseeing one where Aizen had KS.

Additionally, I don't recall any power-nullifying abilities in Bleach working against defensive hax. Yhwach states that no ability can be used against him, which might imply it only works on offensive abilities. Therefore, he cannot nullify Shun Shun Rikka's defensive abilities.



What Nightmarefd0 said is implied in this panel


C2Ci3Yi.png
T
Click to expand...
Am I? Im just talking idk bleach anymore💀
 
Bastolan27 said:
is true. Yhwach didn't see Kyoka Suigetsu (KS) because he was affected by it before he regained the Almighty. Yhwach can see infinite futures, but all futures were influenced by KS, preventing him from foreseeing one where Aizen had KS.
Click to expand...
If you are talking about the effect of the Aizen and Yhwach conversation in cour 1, I will have to disagree

When Aizen played with Yhwach's perception of time, Yhwach noticed this effect, albeit late, so KS's effect must have ended on Yhwach as well

On the other hand, the only thing left is the battle between Yhwach and Aizen where Aizen puts Yhwach under the influence of KS, which I do not object to

If I look at it according to your logic, Almighty is a power that can see even events in the very distant future, such as the death of SK (and we know that Yhwach had Almighty in the past, so he saw must be )

And in the final battle, Aizen's pre-release of KS and the fact that it completely destroyed Yhwach's perception during the battle is further evidence that this happened within the battle

Also The future that Yhwach sees wrong (which is actually true but he thinks is a dream) If you look at Zangetsu, you will see that he is in the same form as Zangetsu who slew Yhwach.However, as I said, Ichigo's sword, which went towards Yhwach who woke up from sleep, was in the form of a knife and a sword (in short, it was in True Shikai form) So I don't think it's just about Yhwach's sleeping part, it's a direct reference to the future where Yhwach dies
 
AppleLord said:
Why don’t we have Christian magic and mythology gods in this wiki? But people disrespecting other religions by putting their Gods here? Like, who decided which is the real one? Like if there was a real one there would only be one religion on the planet and not many.
Click to expand...
Never cook again
 
Valeska24 said:
If you are talking about the effect of the Aizen and Yhwach conversation in cour 1, I will have to disagree

When Aizen played with Yhwach's perception of time, Yhwach noticed this effect, albeit late, so KS's effect must have ended on Yhwach as well

On the other hand, the only thing left is the battle between Yhwach and Aizen where Aizen puts Yhwach under the influence of KS, which I do not object to

If I look at it according to your logic, Almighty is a power that can see even events in the very distant future, such as the death of SK (and we know that Yhwach had Almighty in the past, so he saw must be )

And in the final battle, Aizen's pre-release of KS and the fact that it completely destroyed Yhwach's perception during the battle is further evidence that this happened within the battle

Also The future that Yhwach sees wrong (which is actually true but he thinks is a dream) If you look at Zangetsu, you will see that he is in the same form as Zangetsu who slew Yhwach.However, as I said, Ichigo's sword, which went towards Yhwach who woke up from sleep, was in the form of a knife and a sword (in short, it was in True Shikai form) So I don't think it's just about Yhwach's sleeping part, it's a direct reference to the future where Yhwach dies
Click to expand...
KS doesn't 'end'; the illusions might end, but you are always affected by it unless you touch the blade. Aizen put Yhwach in KS when they first talked.

The Almighty hasn't shown the ability to see far into the future passively. Seeing far into the future, like the Soul King did, seems to be an active ability.
 
Bastolan27 said:
KS doesn't 'end'; the illusions might end, but you are always affected by it unless you touch the blade. Aizen put Yhwach in KS when they first talked.
Click to expand...
Didn't Toshiro realize that he had stabbed Hinamori when he thought he had stabbed Aizen, when Ichigo called out to him? Likewise, Jugram warns Yhwach and Yhwach says that this is the effect of Aizen's KS. And no, Aizen's KS is no longer tied to the sword. Even when Yhwach broke the KS, its effect remained
Bastolan27 said:
The Almighty hasn't shown the ability to see far into the future passively. Seeing far into the future, like the Soul King did, seems to be an active ability.
Click to expand...
This feat of the Soul King is also included in the statement on Yhwach's profile. Yhwach also saw Zangetsu's true form in the future he saw in his sleep and even saw him cut him
 
Valeska24 said:
Didn't Toshiro realize that he had stabbed Hinamori when he thought he had stabbed Aizen, when Ichigo called out to him? Likewise, Jugram warns Yhwach and Yhwach says that this is the effect of Aizen's KS. And no, Aizen's KS is no longer tied to the sword. Even when Yhwach broke the KS, its effect remained
Click to expand...
Aizen was playing mind games with Toshiro, so he might have deactivated the illusion himself. Remember that after that scene, Aizen one-shot everyone, mainly due to Toshiro's temper.

Kyoka Suigetsu has never been about not realizing you are in it; it's about even if you realize it, you cannot dispel it. The first time it was used in the story, Unohana noticed it.
Valeska24 said:
This feat of the Soul King is also included in the statement on Yhwach's profile. Yhwach also saw Zangetsu's true form in the future he saw in his sleep and even saw him cut him
Click to expand...
The profile doesn't mention it being passive. Even when Yhwach uses the Almighty, he actively sees and chooses the future he desires. The vision was sent to him by Jugram, but Yhwach, in his arrogance, thought it was not real.
 
Bastolan27 said:
Aizen was playing mind games with Toshiro, so he might have deactivated the illusion himself. Remember that after that scene, Aizen one-shot everyone, mainly due to Toshiro's temper.
Click to expand...
What? That's just your comment bro, when Ichigo yelled at the captains, they all realized he was actually hunting Hinamori. You can't attribute this to mind games or whatever Aizen's one-shots at the captains are
Bastolan27 said:
The profile doesn't mention it being passive. Even when Yhwach uses the Almighty, he actively sees and chooses the future he desires. The vision was sent to him by Jugram, but Yhwach, in his arrogance, thought it was not real.
Click to expand...
Thanks man, that's exactly what I meant
 
Valeska24 said:
What? That's just your comment bro, when Ichigo yelled at the captains, they all realized he was actually hunting Hinamori. You can't attribute this to mind games or whatever Aizen's one-shots at the captains are
Click to expand...
It's supported by every instance in which Kyoka Suigetsu still works after being noticed, such as Unohana, Yama vs. Aizen, Shinji vs. Aizen, etc.
Valeska24 said:
Thanks man, that's exactly what I meant
Click to expand...
Why did you mention it in the first place when all I said was that it's not passive?
 
Bastolan27 said:
It's supported by every instance in which Kyoka Suigetsu still works after being noticed, such as Unohana, Yama vs. Aizen, Shinji vs. Aizen, etc.
Click to expand...
I don't remember there being an external stimulus. Even if there was, this is not an argument against what I said. Because Ichigo was never under the influence of KS and that's why he warned them
Bastolan27 said:
Why did you mention it in the first place when all I said was that it's not passive?
Click to expand...
There seems to be a misunderstanding here. What I have been advocating all along was that Yhwach's real future was happening to him because he thought it was a dream
 
Valeska24 said:
If you are talking about the effect of the Aizen and Yhwach conversation in cour 1, I will have to disagree

When Aizen played with Yhwach's perception of time, Yhwach noticed this effect, albeit late, so KS's effect must have ended on Yhwach as well

On the other hand, the only thing left is the battle between Yhwach and Aizen where Aizen puts Yhwach under the influence of KS, which I do not object to

If I look at it according to your logic, Almighty is a power that can see even events in the very distant future, such as the death of SK (and we know that Yhwach had Almighty in the past, so he saw must be )

And in the final battle, Aizen's pre-release of KS and the fact that it completely destroyed Yhwach's perception during the battle is further evidence that this happened within the battle

Also The future that Yhwach sees wrong (which is actually true but he thinks is a dream) If you look at Zangetsu, you will see that he is in the same form as Zangetsu who slew Yhwach.However, as I said, Ichigo's sword, which went towards Yhwach who woke up from sleep, was in the form of a knife and a sword (in short, it was in True Shikai form) So I don't think it's just about Yhwach's sleeping part, it's a direct reference to the future where Yhwach dies
Click to expand...
I think it was said Aizen used his reiastu to distort his perception of time.
 
Actually Aizen used his reiatsu during almightyless Yhwach to **** with him so when Yhwach regained his almighty KS still worked soo Aizen > Itachi.
 
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