Bakugan: Final Dragonoid Revisions Discussion

[GimmyJibbsJr]

So, Bakugan is still a rather fickle thing here, and I just wanna finish it up.

I'll post this thread on a few message walls, but basically, here is what I would like to dicuss for this thread so we can finally get things straightened out.


1. This is a DRAGONOID Thread. We will NOT derail ourselves by talking about other Bakugan/Bakugan characters.

2. We are going to be looking at Dragonoid exclusively, analyzing his major feats or anything that he may potentially scale to in terms of speed, AP and Durability. We will NOT be examining every single ability for every Bakugan under the assumption that Drago gets it.

3. We need to review our notes and see if Code Eve's DNA/Power would truly allow Drago to copy the abilities of other Bakugan. Someone needs to review this on their own and post detailed notes about this whole case. If he doesn't actually have evidence of attaining all Bakugan abilities through this method, then I will personally go through his profile and find what needs to be removed.

4. We need to check up on whether or not Dragonoid Destroyer's 2-C level power had an infinite level of power added to it, or if it was multiplied by infinity. Depending on which is the case, it could yield NOTABLY different results. (This is being checked out by The 2nd Existential Seed)


We will all take up individual jobs here, so that way no single person is overloaded trying to cover all the bases. If you wish to focus on a certain category, just say so and I'll edit the OP to show that you are working on it. If anyone has any questions, I will do my best to answer them.

I apologize if it sounds like I am being bossy, but we've been at this for a long time now... and I kind just wanna be done with this without leaving it in a poor state.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Bump

 

[Phoenix821]

Perfect Dragonoid was said to have no ability limit and could use other abilities, but I don't think that applies for any other form of Drago.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Alright, fair enough. If it isn't a bother, could you link an episode where this is stated?

 

[Phoenix821]

It was this episode at 16:30

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Okay. I'll check number 4.

Apparently on the wikia it said he gained Infinite G's, so i could say it definitely be multiplied .

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Okay. I'll check number 4.
Apparently on the wikia it said he gained Infinite G's, so i could say it definitely be multiplied .

Do we know which episode this occurs in specifically? If we can find the clip, maybe they use some keywords that could help find a decision.

 

[Phoenix821]

Dragonoid destroyer is said to have infinite power at 8:32

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Thanks Phoenix.

So... How powerful is Genesis Dragonoid suppose to be ?

 

[Phoenix821]

Well according to the wiki Genesis Dragonoid was a Blitz dragonoid, so maybe we could scale him to the same form of Drago?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

That would be interesting.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Scaling Genesis Dragonoid to Blitz Drago seems reasonable enough to me if that is the case. We might need to find a clip of this statement, but for now we should try to focus on Drago.


So I checked this thread again, and it would seem that any character who is ranked as 2-C or even Low 2-C would be rated as 2-A should they gain a power boost by an infinite amount, regardless if their power was multiplied by infinity or if infinity was added to it.

This should mean that Dragonoid Destroyer, which is under Drago's control, should be 2-A since it recieved an infinite power boost from a 2-C level (Being superior to MANY other single 2-C characters in bakugan already, mind you).

Mechtavius Destroyer should probably be near this powerful as well, at least by the end of the episode Pheonix linked, considering the fact that Mechtavius Destroyer and Dragonoid Destroyer kinda stalemated each other and nobody could actually tell who was going to win.


...Thinking about it, shouldn't we compile Drago's Battle Gear and add that to his account, specifiying that those pieces of Battle Gear are the only things he can summon? We already have Maxus Drago, and even on Helios' profile we have him rated with his Battle Gear... So we should probably add new tabs for such things on Drago's profile, right?

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

So I checked this thread again, and it would seem that any character who is ranked as 2-C or even Low 2-C would be rated as 2-A should they gain a power boost by an infinite amount, regardless if their power was multiplied by infinity or if infinity was added to it.

As far as i know yes. If Any character that resides in any tier from Low 2-C to 2-B and gets their power multiplied by infinity they would logically reside in 2-A. Thats how Asriel Dreemur was scaled as 2-A after all as he was infinitely more powerful than the 2-B God Tiers in the game.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Who would scale to that exactly ?

 

[Reppuzan]

Guys, please remember that infinite power in game mechanics =/= infinite power in actual AP.

The scene in question doesn't have nearly enough output to warrant an infinite upgrade unless you guys can prove that current Drago is Universal+.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Well Reppuzan does make a valid point. However 2-A characters are by default infinitely stronger than Low 2-C to 2-B characters.


I think however that Dragonoid Destroyer should not be placed as 2-A merely from a statement of receiving a supposedly infinite power boost because it could be hyperbole. At best maybe a "Possibly 2-A" would be best. Maybe.

 

[Reppuzan]

I have the feeling that infinite G-Power as an AP justification is about as valid as this scene from Yu-Gi-Oh.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

@Reppuzan Well i suppose you have a point. Perhaps 2-A is a little bit of a stretch.

 

[Phoenix821]

Maybe just 2-B then?

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

@Reppuzan

Well, Fusion Drago is the strongest form Drago has, even stronger then the Infinity or Perfect Core versions. Perfect Core Drago could casually keep two universes from collapsing in on each other just by taking the form of Perfect Core Drago in the final episodes of the first Season of Bakugan. In a previous thread, we were told that this feat would warrant a 2-C rating.

Not only that, but Fusion Drago is FAR stronger then Blitz Dragonoid, who had the potential to a the universe in two should he clash with Dharaknoid.

Finding the exact comment in whichever one of the four or five original Bakugan Threads about the two universes colliding will be a hastle, so I will find this another time. However here is a link to the episode where Code Eve confirms this the Universe being riped in two. It's like a 1 minute long speech about it, but it's important to understand how she means everything, so I linked it at the start of her speech. I will also say that "dimensions" in this case also mean "Universes", as Vestroia is one of the two "dimensions" created from the event, yet it is also referred to by Dan and Drago in the very first Season of the show within the first couple of episodes that Vestroia is, in fact, an entirely seperate universe.

To add to this, Naga's plan in Season one was to "conquer the universe" only AFTER he had merged Vestroia with the human world and making them into a single universe rather then two different ones (Granted I am pretty sure he didn't know that the universes would both be destroyed by this process, but still).


That was all posted as a response to Reppuzan's request to prove Drago's 2-C power ranking. As for the 2-A, I can see why it probably won't go through at this point, so I'm compeltely ready to drop it at this point.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Gimmy

Proof that Fusion Drago is stronger than Perfect Core Drago? I'm going to need more evidence than this.

Alright. The splitting the universe into separate space-times seems reasonable for a 2-C feat. But since it was split by two Bakugan, we'd probably have to divide the result in half, resulting in Low 2-C.

At least, that's what I'm assuming. If I remember correctly, time flows differently in Vestroia. Is this true of Gundalia?

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

I don't particularly think the flow of time is much different between Gunalia and Vestroia at the very least, since it isn't ever really made clear and they WERE once part of the same universe anyway. Regardless, time flow differently for the human universe by comparison to the other two.

Code Eve crafted both Dharaknoid and the Original Dragonoid (also known as Genesis Dragonoid). Those two ripped the universe in two, creating Vestroia and Gundalia, two seperate universes. Some unknown amount of time later, a war broke out in vestroia between a bunch of Gargonoid and the Six Legendary Soldiers. Sometime during this war, the Infinity Core and Silent Core were made by the Bakugan participating in the war. All this occured from Bakugan who are FAR weaker then the likes of either Dharaknoid or Genesis Dragonoid, as they should be two of the strongest Bakugan at that time.

My point with that though is taht Code Eve created beings who are FAR stronger then those who made the Infinity and Silent Cores, which both made up the Perfect Core together. Not only did Drago gain all of Code Eve's power in order to become Titanium Drago, but later he fought Razenoid, who outright states that he surpassed Code Eve's power.

I'll grab some links for this later (sorry I can't right now, honestly wish I could. :/ ).

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

...Hey, so I'm having a tiny bit of trouble looking for the episodes of Bakugan where they talk about how the two Cores were actually created. They have to be somewhere in either Season 1 or Late Season 2, so... If anyone can, can somebody scan through the episodes and link them here if they find the moments?


I already looked through Episodes 28-33, but I found nothing...

 

[Phoenix821]

I've been looking and the closes I've been able to find was the Season Three FInale when Code Eve talks about the origin of all bakugan.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

@Reppuzan

Alright so the Perfect Core, or even either of the Infinity or Silent Cores were NOT created during the massive war in vestroia. The Perfect Core, according to the visuals in this scene and Nova Lion's statements, was created at the same time as the universe, meaning that Genesis Dragonoid created the Perfect Core upon making Vestroia would be our most possibly scenario.

Regardless, Code Eve crafted Dharaknoid and Genesis Dragonoid as well as casually disposed of Phantom Dharak after he gained the potential to rip the universe in two should he fight with Drago. Genesis Dragonoid should actualy be on the same level or even stronger then the Perfect Core, as he created it.

Not only did Drago gain all of Code Eve's power and then evolve into Titanium Drago, but he later fought Razenoid evenly, who revealed that his power had surpassed Code Eve's.

This supports Titanium/Fusion Drago being stronger then the Perfect Core.


Also, based on that link you posted Phoenix, it doesn't look like Drago would inherit all Bakugan abilities. It really only states that he should now rule over all Bakugan in existence, like due to his power if anything. Thanks for posting that here, btw

 

[Phoenix821]

No problem glad to have helped.

Also I'm trying to find out about if Drago should get all abilities or not, so I'm going to look at past threads about Drago as well as browse the bakugan wiki for information.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

No problem glad to have helped.
Also I'm trying to find out about if Drago should get all abilities or not, so I'm going to look at past threads about Drago as well as browse the bakugan wiki for information.

Alright, sounds good.

I think I actually remember why we thought Drago gets all powers btw. I think I mentioned that, since Drago has all the DNA now or whatever, he should get their biological traits that are attributed to each Bakugan via their DNA, and then I think someone else also made the case that all Abilities/Ability Cards are genetic as well, since the cards are only aprt of the game-mechanic thing made by humans and Bakugan have been seen using some of those same abilities without the need of an Ability Card anyway.

IDK if this is actually legit, but I think this is what was considered at the time.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Gimmy

I don't want speculation. I want definitive proof of the claim you're making here.

Digimon has something similar, but proved it in the games in that later evolutions always inherit the attacks of their weaker evolutions.

If you can show me something like this happened with Drago, and that he can use the DNA he inherited, then I will concede on that point.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

@Reppuzan

To be entirely honest, it's not really made clear how the Perfect Core was made from what I can recall. If we could get ProfessorKukui4Life in on this thread, he might be able to help us considering that he went out of his way to watch basically al of the episodes in the series multiple times for the sake of the revisions.

We'd just need him to drop a few links for us, but tried messaging him about this thread before and he never replied.


Aside from that, I honestly don't think Drago should get all inherited abilities at this point. The scene of him getting Code Eve's power only says he should "rule" over the Bakugan and doesn't really give any indication towards him getting every Bakugan's individual power (Phoenix posted a link to this scene).

 

[Phoenix821]

I'm going to try and make a case of Dragon getting all abilities, but this is all just speculation.

Ok first the reason the one with Code Eve's power would rule all bakugan is because according to Fabia the ruler of Neathia the Sacred orb at 7:10 contains the DNA of all Bakugan.

Second we know that the DNA of Bakugan contains abilities why, because of the synthetic Bakugan used in Bakugan Interspace. The synthetic Bakugan were made from the Phantom Data, which Fabia sent usuing the power of the Sacred Orb.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

I'm going to try and make a case of Dragon getting all abilities, but this is all just speculation.
Ok first the reason the one with Code Eve's power would rule all bakugan is because according to Fabia the ruler of Neathia the Sacred orb at 7:10 contains the DNA of all Bakugan.

Second we know that the DNA of Bakugan contains abilities why, because of the synthetic Bakugan used in Bakugan Interspace. The synthetic Bakugan were made from the Phantom Data, which Fabia sent usuing the power of the Sacred Orb.

Well, if we can find an instance of Drago using one of these kinds of abilities after gaining Code Eve's power, then we COULD prove that he does get all abilities...

Also, I hate to ask you of this, but do have any idea as to which Bakugan episodes could lead us to an answer on how the Perfect Core was made? If so, I could check it and then use that to prove how Drago is more powerful then the Perfect Core by the time he takes his form of Titanium Drago (Sorry to keep on piling requests on you btw)

 

[Phoenix821]

That's my dilemea I don't recall Drago using those kinds of abilities outside of Infinity Dragonoid or Vexos Dragonoid.

Also I haven't been able to find info on how the Perfect Core was made besides what I've linked already, although it was said that Neo Dragonoid had become nearly as powerful as the Perfect Core itself at 16:53, and that was before he evolved into Cross Dragonoid in the next episode.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

That's my dilemea I don't recall Drago using those kinds of abilities outside of Infinity Dragonoid or Vexos Dragonoid.
Also I haven't been able to find info on how the Perfect Core was made besides what I've linked already, although it was said that Neo Dragonoid had become nearly as powerful as the Perfect Core itself at 16:53, and that was before he evolved into Cross Dragonoid in the next episode.

If that's the case... Wow. That means we might have to revise quite a bit now...

We have to adjust the power levels of all of Drago's forms after Neo Drago, and then we also have to determine whether or not Neo Drago should have two keys, one outlinging his Country Level feat and one for the statement from Apollonir about how he rivals the Perfect Core...

And then there are a bunch of scaling things to go through as well... But for now we gotta focus on Drago, as this is a Drago based thread. We might need more input on this potential buff from others, but then there is the fact that some people I messaged about this thread decided not to give input...

 

[Phoenix821]

Do you think it might be enough to make Drago 2-B?

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

MAYBE not 2-B, but it would make most of his forms up to 2-C since this is a reliable statement coming from beings that live inside of the Perfect Core itself and have extensive knowledge on the Universe of vestroia as a whole.

However, part of me is unsure of something. That Country Level feat that Drago performed as Neo Dragonoid is what is used to scale to numerous other Bakugan. However, that was performed not long before he was told to be as powerful as the Perfect Core itself.

So my question is, do we make two Keys on Drago's profile for his Neo Drago form, or do we just change it to match the Perfect Core's rating (which is already on his profile) and make him 2-C as well, which would affect the entire scaling thing that Bakugan has?

 

[Phoenix821]

which Bakugan were scaled to it?

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Well, a lot of Bakugan were scaled to Drago's Country Level rating like Helios, Hades and even the Season 1 Bakgan since they could keep up with the Vexos for short periods of time (Preyas and Hydranoid especially). Hell, Hydranoid came back and literally killed Hades, and Hades had fought Drago not long before he was stated to be on par with the Perfect Core.

It would literally mean most Bakugan owned by a Main Character and that can talk could get bumped up to that level, because they are all generally performing on the same level here.

I thought this kind of scaling was weird when Bakugan in Mechtanium Surge were getting scaled to Fusion Drago since they could keep up with him, but now literally everyone has some kind of excuse to be that high in power. :/


Anyway, imma scan through Season 1, look for more hints about the Perfect Core's origins. If I can't find anything, I'll try looking for instances where Drago used another Bakugan's ability.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Alice's Hydranoid is 2-C ? ... My life is complete.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

To be honest, Part of me kinda feels wrong for thinking it works...

But then again, when all of the Bakugan previously owned by the Battle Brawlers take on Mechtavius Destroyer, while most of them get literally killed in one shot and don't deal any VISIBLE damage to it, of all of them Tigrerra is able to knock him to one knee.

This either means that the accumulated damage from all of their attacks actually had an affect, or Tigrerra is slightly stronger then the other Bakugan she's with in that fight... Which kinda shouldn't be the case considering there were Bakugan there that SHOULD have been stronger then her like Elfin, Wilda, bakugan from Gundalian Invaders, etc. Hell she even voiced in Season 2 that she felt inferior to the likes of Wilda and Elfin and Ingram

So on one hand it kinda feels odd, but on another is seems alright to me. tbh I think we need, like, a chat moderator or a calc group member to look at this and give there thoughts so we can either have this applied or dropped right now

 

[Phoenix821]

Would Drago have Time Travel via the Current of Time ?

I personally don't think so because it required the sacrifice of two others to keep it open long enough for all to go through, but I thought it was worth mentioning.