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Baki Hanma vs Ikki Kurogane

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Schnee_One

Schnee_One

VS Battles
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Oh yeah, Tank Durability was removed so this fight is fair again.

Speed is Equalized, SSSAF arc Ikki isnused and starts in Ittou Shura, both are Low 7C but both Baki and Ikki are allowed their 7C transformations.

Baki Hanma: 0

Ikki Kurogane: 2
 
I'm thinking Ikki takes this mid diff, but to play Devil's Advocate, I'll mention some things Baki can try

So Endorphins can amp Baki's durability and pain resistance, so that may be useful for potentially stalling Ikki's stamina

I'm not sure about Ikki's grappling skill, but Baki has a ton of grappling moves that could help him turn the tables on Ikki (biggest problem I'm not sure if Baki has an answer to is HOW he's going to get Ikki into any holds or grapples

The Roll Kick could prove to be immensely useful in certain situations, as it allows Baki to roll or flip in the same direction as a strike is moving, negating the impact of the hit, and landing a blow while the attack is still in motion

Seiken is probably fodder in this fight

The Kinteki Geri is super predictable if used multiple times, but if Baki can land the first one... its gunna hurt bad

Goutaijutsu is a good surprise attack, but is easy for someone like Ikki to dodge so long as he doesn't fall for the trap of attack Baki while he's in the stance

Benda probably won't be too helpful considering Ikki's experience with enemies with whip-like weapons

Aiki may very well be one of his best options, but Baki will SERIOUSLY need to rely on stuff like his instinctive reaction and information analysis to actually be able to initiate and Aiki moves

Cockroach Tackle may be fairly useful as well, as Baki (potentially, as I haven't submitted the calc for review) accelerates at 16,800,000 mph/ms (his actual speed is 168mph and he achieves it in .01 milliseconds), so that sudden acceleration maybe helpful to at least landing a hit

Mach Punch is a lot faster, but the acceleration isn't as impressive as the CT as far as I'm aware, it just has a faster final velocity, so Ikki might be able to evade or block, not sure about that one

Enzuigiri is probably NEVER going to land, but it could potentially stun Ikki if it did, so... there's that, I guess...

If Baki can get off even 1 Cord Cut, which is about as likely as him landing a normal hit (not likely, but not impossible), this battle will definitely be easier for Baki, as Baki can weaken a part of Ikki and play to that weakness (even though Ikki can just funnel all of the power from whatever he weakens to another part of the body and strengthen that part, the weakness will at least still be in the targeted part)

0.5 is 0.5. If Baki can survive long enough to deem it necessary, that might help at least once

Slap probably won't help anymore than a normal hit

Imagine Style could be Baki's saving grace, but that also depends on what Baki chooses to project

Hand Pocket is always good, but from what I can see, there are major weaknesses in that it can only hit in from of Baki and there's a range problem (as it's only been seen to be used while the user is at a stand-still)
 
Baki is definitely more skilled when it comes to hand to hand, Ikki seems to be more skilled in most other regards. Ikki is a good martial artist but Baki is like Kung Fu Jesus, so if Baki could somehow manage to disarm Ikki ( doubtful ) then I could see him taking it.
 
The Prince of Counters said:
Baki is definitely more skilled when it comes to hand to hand, Ikki seems to be more skilled in most other regards. Ikki is a good martial artist but Baki is like Kung Fu Jesus, so if Baki could somehow manage to disarm Ikki ( doubtful ) then I could see him taking it
Click to expand...
>more skilled at anything. > Ikki This is gonna cause a mess
 
The Prince of Counters said:
Baki is definitely more skilled when it comes to hand to hand, Ikki seems to be more skilled in most other regards. Ikki is a good martial artist but Baki is like Kung Fu Jesus, so if Baki could somehow manage to disarm Ikki ( doubtful ) then I could see him taking it.
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My thought process as well. In hand-to-hand, all Ikki has going for him to my knowledge is his footwork and perception (as far as CQC between people of this skill level), so in terms of skills, I'd say its Armed Ikki>>>>Baki>>>> Armed Baki (supposedly fairly proficient with a sword)= Unarmed Ikki (also a talented and skilled martial artist)
 
@Baki There are a couple things you're missing about Ikki

This form of Ikki lasts for only one minute, and Ittou Rasetsu lasts for one second, after that he passes out due to stamina.

Secondly, remember Ikki uses Phantom form to ignore dura, since it's pain Manip, it fails since Baki resists the Benda Whip
 
Schnee One said:
@Baki There are a couple things you're missing about Ikki
This form of Ikki lasts for only one minute, and Ittou Rasetsu lasts for one second, after that he passes out due to stamina.

Secondly, remember Ikki uses Phantom form to ignore dura, since it's pain Manip, it fails since Baki resists the Benda Whip
Click to expand...
So as I understand this, Baki can win by following in the example of Noble Six? Mission Objective: Survive
 
I won't be biased here, as I like both characters. But I will lay down the win condition for Ikki in this fight

Both Ikki and Baki start out at the same speed and near equal AP, but Ikki has 60 seconds to End the fight

Ikki uses Phantom Form in character, he hates killing, since Baki resists pain to an insane degree he will resist this and keep fighting.

After getting a hit but realizing his time is running out, Ikki cancels Phantom Form, and uses Rasetsu to blitz and one shot Baki

Ikki needs to hit Baki, realize he resists pain Manip, then use Rasetsu to blitz and kill him, Baki needs to survive for 60 seconds, if Baki doesn't get hit by his sword, Ikki will use Rasetsu to blitz him, only for it to fail because Baki resists pain Manip, and Rasetsu instantly drains Ikki's stamina
 
Pretty sure Phantom Form is something that specifically targets stamina and the mind rather then cause intense pain. Minor blows decrease stamina whilst fatal blows put the opponent in a special comatose state. There is only an "illusion" of pain. So they feel pain but they haven't actually been cut.

So if Baki gets hit he likely gets put to sleep.
 
Earlier, I was thinking Ikki takes it mid dif since I don't think Baki has the arsenal to seal the deal, but Baki's kit is almost perfect for stalling. I'll actually vote Baki with high difficulty for now.

Baki also has a feat being discussed where he was killed by Gaia, but his spirit re-entered his body and continued fighting. I'm not sure if that's resurrection, resistance to Death Manipulation, or soul manipulation, but it could definitely help with a oneshot

However, with accepted things, my argument would definitely a combination of instinctive reaction (it's so potent, he's is able to dodge the line of sight of people comparable to him, making him invisible to them) Aiki, Imagine Style, Cockroach Tackle, and grapples to possible disarm or stall Ikki
 
Baki isn't THAT MUCH below his father in skill, and his father is a master at every martial art to have ever existed so the skill gap isn't stomp worthy here. And even then, Ikki is skilled with fencing and swordsmanship, Baki is skilled with H2H combat. However, Baki has experience with sword users since he fought Musashi Miyamoto, who lacks a need for presentations when it comes to sword skills. Ikki, on the other hand, has little experience with H2H combat users, afaik.

Baki has a shit ton of amps, extremely good pain resistance, dwarfs Ikki when it comes to stamina, his locks are so effective they were considered limited sealing at some point, should know his fair share of pressure points. Knows durability negation techniques that can make parts of your body stop working, bla bla bla. Also very good instinctive reaction and limited invisibility should make him outlast Ikki's transformations.

Leaning to Baki very high diff but let's wait for Fire to come
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Uhm....ittou shura ikki....ok but why though.
Starting ikki in ittou forms is bordering on spite. But ok, i'll argue this.
Click to expand...
tbf if you don't start him in his amped forms or restrict his amps his speed makes it a blitz
 
The pen or the sword said:
Firephoenixearl said:
Uhm....ittou shura ikki....ok but why though.
Starting ikki in ittou forms is bordering on spite. But ok, i'll argue this.
Click to expand...
tbf if you don't start him in his amped forms or restrict his amps his speed makes it a blitz
Click to expand...
I mean blitz is part of his moveset, but my point was It's better to start him in base and restrict amps.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
I mean blitz is part of his moveset, but my point was It's better to start him in base and restrict amps.
Click to expand...
Why would starting in a lower tier and restricting moving to a higher tier be better? >.>
 
Because starting him amped is literally:

"Ikki vs x character in a fight.....but if ikki doesn't win in 60 seconds he loses"

You can see why that creates doubt on fairness.
 
I guess so, but "Character who amps to prevent one-shots is prevented from amping against a character who can one-shot them" also creates doubt on fairness.

Ikki's just unfair.
 
I guess because it gets rid of his time limit, he can only retain his lower amp for one minute and his stronger amp for 1 second. Though I question how those are really restrictions in verse considering he apparently has ftl speeds...

Ikki is a rather poor character for most debates his massive amps make him difficult to pair against anyone.
 
The pen or the sword said:
I guess because it gets rid of his time limit, he can only retain his lower amp for ten minutes and his stronger amp for one minute. Though I question how those are really restrictions in verse considering he apparently has ftl speeds...
Ikki is a rather poor character for most debates his massive amps make him difficult to pair against anyone.
Click to expand...
1 minute and 1 second are the time limits.
 
Agnaa said:
I guess so, but "Character who amps to prevent one-shots is prevented from amping against a character who can one-shot them" also creates doubt on fairness.
Ikki's just unfair.
Click to expand...
In Ikki's case, it's not a problem. Considering its rare to see him up against an opponent that doesn't 1 shot.
 
Well pain manip is because somewhere in the middle it says "you feel the pain".

And that would kind answer all other explanations given for it. So instead of sticking with the latest one i stuck with the one which may make sense the most.
 
I feel like the coma and stamina still makes sense but because the current characters have too much willpower it doesn't work. It's still on a bunch of profiles so of it has been retconned then maybe make a CRT?
 
Ok so about disarming ikki. I won't say Ikki's a better hand to hand fighter than Baki or Yujiro, but it's not gonna happen. Ikki doesn't need a sword. He uses sheets of paper to cut metal pipes, rocks to nullify attacks (not power null, nullify as in make them not work), tubes of lipstick to disarm, erasers etc. Ikki's proficient with just about anything. So even assuming Baki will be capable of disarming him (wich ain't really gonna happen with the massive skill difference) it's not like it'll be the end of the fight, anything is a weapon for ikki.

Phantom Form. Excuse me, how good is Baki's pain resistance exactly? Because Phantom Form renders unconscious people who don't flinch to pain manip which puts trained guards unconscious instantly.

As for Rasetsu. Something you're forgetting @Schnee is....senses and perfect vison. Ikki knows when or what to do to win. His senses will tell him a bunch of stuff. It push comes to shove he'll use Rasetsu to end the fight. It's not like there's much of a win condition for Baki.
 
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