• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Azure Striker Gunvolt CRT: Third Game's Additions

Status
Not open for further replies.
3,564
820
The third game has come out, and it’s time to make some heavy changes.

LS and AP

To start with, there are two new feats we need to look at:

Grazie’s Lifting Strength Feat, creating essentially a creating giant sand castle around the UTU Media Tower, I didn’t calc it yet, but I’m quite sure this scales to AT LEAST Gunvolt, as he is capable of straight up grabbing her projectiles, and shoving them right back at her- one shotting her with her own attack. I didn’t calculate the feat yet, but there’s no reason why people don’t scale to this feat, even Kirin can run away from her sand twisters that try to pull her in.

ZED’s “sun” creation feat. This is going to be the primary AP feat for Gunvolt 3, so let's prove that this is a real star or sun creation feat. First off, a fireball of this size is NOT enough to turn what is a stormy, windy, night into a clear sky all the way to the HORIZON. A simple fireball cannot do this, not of that size and color. Zed explains how his power is the Septima of the Sun, meaning it can replicate the sun- and Gunvolt goes on a tirade about how he can control nuclear fusion and generate an unlimited amount of energy just like his Azure Striker. The Website goes on to say his nuclear fusion is equivalent to that of the sun as well, it’s safe to assume he’s making a sun like object. His Luxcalibur-like attack, Rexcalibur, can also destroy countries

Whoever scales to this, including the Binding Brands (the original versions of the Glaives, which give ATEMS bosses their powers), would be High 6-B, likely High 6-A based on Zed’s sun feats alone, but High 6-A can also come from the next point:

Gunvolt’s Vanishing World, and the implication of him destroying the world. Ever since March 31st, 2022, Gunvolt has been hyped up to be an absolute monstrous powerhouse in promotions related to the topic. The New Game Expo+ footage pretty much tells you that he’s invincible and the English translators simply just say that he’s broken, the website saying he’s awakened to a new power beyond Septimas and that in Anthem, one wrong step and a disaster may occur, the trailer saying the same, pretty much every INTi stream that ever covers Gunvolt’s abilities has the commentators saying how powerful he is, the fact that he has so many moves that are honestly, unnecessary to defeat foes. And in game, he has also been revealed to have been powering his country for decades and solving all of the country’s energy problems, his electricity being called “Gunvolt Electric”. In the screenshot where this is shown to be a possible future, we don’t exactly get a timeframe of what happens, however as seen with his most powerful attack appropriately named “Vanishing World”, there is a case to be made that Gunvolt can do this in one attack. INTi has a history, at least in the English versions, to be literal with their attack names: Total Blackout, Sonic Spiral, Armageddon Ray, Frigid Stasis, Terminal Detonation, Obliteration Blast, Blazing Tempest, Resurrection, Lazy Laser, Twin Shredder, Luxcalibur, Voltaic Chains, Aqua Avatar, Entangled Strands, I’m quite sure Vanishing World fits in the same category of how literal this is. I say that we use the simple reference calc for High 6-A, and since this move can trigger anywhere, including on the ground- we use the Ground-Based explosion here. Zed is apparently comparable to Gunvolt in Azure Striker Gunvolt 3, so he could scale.

There’s also the argument to be made that Nova and Zonda scale to this, as GV comments that Moebius’s power is stronger than Nova and Zonda, but never any time before that, suggesting that Nova and Zonda at full power / Muse Powers were stronger than any threat in the game up until that point, Moebius being stronger than Gunvolt’s Dragon State

Now, I should probably explain how this isn’t an outlier, because I know that’s coming- along with additional evidence that Gunvolt’s High 6-A should at least be a possibility, or a likely. Let’s talk about the scale of the Gunvolt verse, and what it’s about. Azure Striker Gunvolt takes place in a dystopian world, where almost every country in the world has been decimated by a superhuman race called Adepts. To quote Fleeting Memories:


GV has been hyped up throughout the promotion of the series to need 1000 Glaives, turned into a dragon, have the website say how dangerous and out of control his power is and it may cause disaster, Vanishing World, pretty much the entire game saying "hey yo GV is dangerous Kirin you gotta take care of him", his Gameplay being absolute broken, there's no way he isn't at this level, especially at the end where he gets a vision of him destroying the world, the Muse is constantly planned to be doing something on a global scale, Demerzel's influence is worldwide and Sumeragi is worldwide in iX, Zed wants to rule the world, Zonda wants to commit global genocide, Dragon Radiation: worldwide (Kirin says that its a worldwide issue, and Dragon Radiation has been everywhere since GV turned into one and only now is it showing up as a bad thing), Dragon Radiation from Moebius has ****** over the whole world same with GV. Primal Dragons are a level ascendant to Septima. Moebius changes the fate of the world. As of Fleeting Memories Adepts raze countries to nothing but scorched earth (see above), Rexcalibur can raze countries (see above again). According to Zed Sumeragi refers to GV as all powerful, GV himself can generate a limitless amount of energy to power the entire country (Gunvolt Electric, solving the energy crisis that has plagued the world even BEFORE the series started (Project Gunvolt)), there are Dragon Veins flowing through the land that are stabilized by important binding brands. There's a lot of evidence pointing to this series being "world level", and every time it's through a Septima, only this time, ones that affect it physically. There’s more evidence in the Zed calc itself, so- if one is still not convinced, they can go there.

Moebius

Now here comes the part the mods are probably looking into, 2-A multiversal hax. This only came to mind after the recent Bleach Thread came along. I personally don’t really like it, but I have to be as unbiased as I can and at least give it consideration. Let’s review Moebius’s ability:

Moebius’s Octima: Astral Order, allows Moebius to look at innumerable (countless in Japanese) futures and choose one to his liking, much like Bleach’s Yhwach. The amount is treated as “countless” or too many to be counted. Now, I understand that there’s guides for Yhwach’s case that go out of their way to say he sees infinite futures, but here it’s treated as if any future is possible for Moebius- the characters assume that Moebius would automatically choose the worse one, and Zed wants to use its power to guide it to his exact ideal world in general, they even call Moebius’s power omnipotent (of course, NLF), and treat it like it can achieve anything, including the worst possible outcome (which is why the Moebius Boss Fight happens). Plus, like with the argument in Bleach, countless / innumerable can very easily be an infinite number of futures. Also, like Bleach where its described that the Almighty sees each future like grains of sand on the beach, Astral Order chooses from a “wide sea of countless stars”. Based on these interactions of how characters treat Astral Order like it can do anything and assume the worst possible outcomes right away- along with its description by Zed and other smaller supporting evidences- It seems like the writers’ intent was that Moebius can see infinite futures, not just an unknown multiple. For more supporting evidence, Copen in Luminous Avenger iX2 theorizes that there could be an infinite amount of other universes in the ASG Cosmology- of course, he's just guessing, but it's there in the game for a reason.

If that doesn’t pass, then “tier” will this hax be? Innumerable / Countless is already described, and Gunvolt already sees a multitude of futures destroyed by his hand- 2-C? 2-B? Possibly 2-A?

If we want to really lowball, we can segway that into the next topic: Damnatio Memoriae. By definition, Damnatio Memoriae is Latin for "condemnation of memory", indicating that a person is to be excluded from official accounts, as if they didn’t exist. Here, Moebius is doing it literally. I don’t know what to classify this as, but we do get a hint here: the japanese version of Damnatio Memorie has a simple name: “Erasing Existence”. From what we can see in the SP Skill animation, Moebius attempts to cut off (cut off the line that likely represents timeline, as each are separated from each other) every possible past versions of the victim that leads up to the person that is currently fighting him, destroying all versions of the subject’s past that led them to that point and erasing them from existence. In the video, there are events that don’t actually happen in the main story, such as Gunvolt and Asimov teaming up on Zonda, when in the main story, Asimov should be dead at that time- in addition, Asimov is wearing his glasses while using his Azure Striker Septima, when he normally has to take those off to use his Septima. Of course, this is all an educated guess, so… maybe this would be more of a “possibly/likely Timeline Manipulation and Existence Erasure”- but honestly I feel like it’s pretty clear cut.

There's also the fact that the target either is damaged or Prevades this attack, but isn't instantly killed. So does that mean Type 1 Acausality or just normal resistance if we accord to the above?

Notice that I said “possible pasts (timelines of their past) represented lines”, we could possibly scale Damnatio Memorie to Astral Order’s hax tier- as there is only so many (time)lines drawn on the screen (19 of them), we could lowball Astral Order’s hax to be 19 universes (2-C) to be concrete, and attach a “possibly/likely” Multiversal+ Astral Order.

So for conclusions for Astral Order, it’d be Precognition and Fate Manipulation (4D - Low Multiversal, possibly/likely Multiversal+), but I'll let the mods be the judge of this. Of course, abilities that help resist Astral Order such as Golden Trillion and Djinn (and The Muse due to being the same type of Stand)

Astral Order Gunvolt
As we know, Moebius absorbs Gunvolt at the end of the game, fusing the two together to create "Moebius-Gunvolt". In the original ending, Kirin seals Moebius within Gunvolt as the the two fly off in an orb of light, but in the canon extended version of the new ending goes into detail on what exactly happened. It's a lot of plot speculation, but for our purpose as powerscalers, they conveniently made it extremely clear that Gunvolt now has control over Moebius's Astral Order. With that, Gunvolt gains any ability that Moebius has, as he basically has fused with the guy. Which to my dismay.... means a Multiversal+ Gunvolt.

A small Jota thing
Also Jota has a high frequency blade without his Glaive, I can't prove that this gives us Dura Negation, but it's there to list in the P&A section
 
Last edited:
Countless is only 2-B as opposed to 2-A, but if he outright sees infinite possibilities that would be Multiversal+ range
 
I'm noticing a quote of note:



I'm pretty sure "endless" is also the same term used in JP for "infinite" even in mathematical contexts, and so I think 2-A is solid, the Imgur page also bothers saying as much in more detail:

Mugen is "infinite" in Japanese, another way to read that last sentence would be "Infinite Astral Order"
 
Countless is only 2-B as opposed to 2-A, but if he outright sees infinite possibilities that would be Multiversal+ range
Thanks for the insight- is there anything else you want to look over in terms of the rest of the CRT (AP, Damnatio Timeline and Acausality stuff)?
 
Last edited:
In my opinion, the scaling should go like this (since imo it just makes the most sense):
  • Berserk Adepts and ATEMS members barring Zed: 6-C (Can fight Kirin, they should be much stronger than the Sumeragi Swordsmen and the Seven, considering Serpentine made near perfect replicas of Viper, Jota, Zonda, and Tenjian. HOWEVER, they should not be more powerful than a full powered Muse, since otherwise the Muse wouldn't be so sought after)
  • Kirin: 6-C (Fights iX2 Copen possibly since it's established she goes through multiple worlds after GV3), likely High 6-B (Fights a weakened Primal Dragon GV and a Zed that's holding back in their first encounter. In their second encounter, it's established Zed and GV's energy awakened Moebius, implying it was their fight and Kirin played a smaller part in it). High 6-A with Djinn's Wish/Anthem (Defeats Moebius GV, though GV is clearly actively resisting control the entire time so likely not full power)
  • Zed and Partially-Sealed GV: High 6-B (All of Zed's country razing statements, his sun feat, etc.. Partially-Sealed GV of course scales since their energy equalized each other out and awakened Moebius)
  • Heightened Emotions/Primal Dragon GV and Moebius/Moebius-GV: High 6-A (Established to have enough power to destroy the world, or at least surface wipe considering the cutscenes and statements)
The reason why I don't agree that Nova and Reverie Zonda scale to High 6-B is because then Asimov scales, and then iX Copen scales, but iX Copen struggles against Blade so Blade scales, then all the Workers scale. In the main timeline GV struggles against Tenjian with a Muse Shard, so Tenjian scales, but Tenjian isn't much more powerful than the other members of the Seven so they all scale, but the Seven shouldn't be too much more powerful than the Sumeragi Swordsmen since the Muse Shard isn't too much of a huge boost (we argued about this in the other GV thread), so all the Sumeragi Swordsmen scale.

Anyways, you see how out of hand the scaling would become? When would we even stop? We can just interpret GV saying that Moebius is stronger than Nova and Reverie Zonda because... duh? Of course Moebius would be massively stronger than them.

Either way, that's my two cents on the scaling. How is it?
 
Im pretty neutral on all of that, but Kirin should at least have a Possibly High 6-A on her base. She fought Moebius-GV, which is definitely stronger than any Anthem or Primal GV, she damaged the guy, and only needed assistance with Djinn's Wish until after Moebius-GV uses Astral Order, a hax ability, not AP. That is pretty much completely undeniable. Even if one were to argue that GV was holding back- he literally says "I can't control it (Moebius)" and is clearly using the strongest attacks he has ever done up until this point- also, you can't exactly "hold back" on your durability at all, and Kirin damages him with her sword, making her basic sword attacks H6A
 
possibly High 6-A is fine, but honestly imo it's a reaaaaaaaaaal possibly. Anyways wb everything else?
 
That checks out imo

I'd still rate Kirin as High 6-B by the endgame though. If LAiX Copen can have a separate key for endgame, so can Kirin, and given her new techniques it's clear she improves over the course of the story. Mother was going to wipe the goddamn world anyway so High 6-B LAiX2 doesn't seem too far-fetched. Blade wouldn't scale to it since Copen explicitly boosted his specs with Null's help before storming the Grave Pillar, so no cross-game scaling issue either.

Early-game 6-C Kirin is fine though. I'd give her and the ATEMS Knights an "at least" though, since Sistina roflstomped BB during the endgame.
 
Last edited:
Bump this, I don't feel like doing scaling so I'll let u guys handle it all. The only thing that I would ever contest is Kirin getting nerfed and discredited because I simp because she's proved that she can hang around and like... damage the top tiers, unless you wanna say she's so skilled that she dodges literally everything
 
Here's how I'd do Kirin, personally.

Tier: At least 6-C (Stronger than Djinn-powered BB, who is vastly superior to the Seven, and can battle the ATEMS Knights), likely High 6-B (Can hold her own against a casual Zed) | High 6-B, likely High 6-A (Can fight Zed at full power, fought Moebius with GV's help, briefly held her own against Moebius-GV) | High 6-A (Defeated Moebius-GV) | At least 6-C (Fought iX2-Copen)

Keys: Early-Midgame | Endgame | With Djinn & Golden Trillion | LAiX2

Obviously my word is not law, but this layout makes sense to me. Scaling iX2-Copen to Kirin and/or Mother is its own can of worms for a later date.
 
Last edited:
Damn 4 keys

i like condensing into 1 if i can

Zed's H6B is a casual feat by the way, and Lux Ballista IS an SP Skill according to new footage, if Kirin can survive an SP Skill from Zed- she's definitely more of a challenge to him than previously thought. I feel like Copen would scale, why would Kirin get weaker after her fight on her own against Moebius-GV? It would make sense if iX2 Copen was H6B.

Also are we doing the H6B Nova and Zonda and throwing the 6-C muse stuff away or? (or are we diving H6B by 9 Muse Shards?)
 
Last edited:
Here's how I'd do Kirin, personally.

Tier: At least 6-C (Stronger than Djinn-powered BB, who is vastly superior to the Seven, and can battle the ATEMS Knights), likely High 6-B (Can hold her own against a casual Zed) | High 6-B, likely High 6-A (Can fight Zed at full power, fought Moebius with GV's help, briefly held her own against Moebius-GV) | High 6-A (Defeated Moebius-GV) | At least 6-C (Fought iX2-Copen)

Keys: Early-Midgame | Endgame | With Djinn & Golden Trillion | LAiX2

Obviously my word is not law, but this layout makes sense to me. Scaling iX2-Copen to Kirin and/or Mother is its own can of worms for a later date.
Scaling iX2 Copen to Zed makes sense, espesially given Mother's statement of ending the world.
 
Damn 4 keys

i like condensing into 1 if i can

Zed's H6B is a casual feat by the way, and Lux Ballista IS an SP Skill according to new footage, if Kirin can survive an SP Skill from Zed- she's definitely more of a challenge to him than previously thought. I feel like Copen would scale, why would Kirin get weaker after her fight on her own against Moebius-GV? It would make sense if iX2 Copen was H6B.

Also are we doing the H6B Nova and Zonda and throwing the 6-C muse stuff away or? (or are we diving H6B by 9 Muse Shards?)
Remember what I said before about Nova and Zonda. If we make those two scale, then the entire scaling chain will be all screwed. There's just no point where we stop.

But for Kirin, an At least 6-C, possibly High 6-B (since Prevasion is more than likely on, we don't know if Kirin got hit by Lux Ballista or not) for start of game to middle, High 6-B, possibly High 6-A for endgame, and High 6-A for Djinn's Wish sounds good to me.

I'm actually kind of hesitant to scale iX2 Copen to Kirin, since firstly, we don't know how canon their fight is, even if we know it's canon that Kirin traveled to different worlds. If we do add it to the sheets, where are we stopping? We can scale Kohaku feats to Copen, we can scale Yang feats to Copen, we can scale Jason feats to Copen. Like Nova and Zonda, where would we stop? That's why it's probably best to not scale them for now until we get information that all of Copen's encounters were canon, and if they are... oh boy we'll have to at least scale iX2 Copen to BMZ3 Jason.
 
...I'm not touching Blaster Master bullshit with an infinity-foot pole. Kirin is at least from the same franchise. And to be entirely fair Jason wasn't fighting at full power given that he didn't use Sophia for anything besides an oversized paperweight.

That said, iX2 should probably scale to Mother's intent to wipe Workers and their society off the face of the planet in any case. High 6-A is more than reasonable, and I'm not sure why we dropped that discussion tbh.

If we want to put XX-Trigger/iX2 Kirin aside as PIS for now, that's fine by me. Although if iX-Copen becomes a boss in 3's Updates, I would consider the comparison between those two justified. That seems fair to me.

And no, Nova and Zonda High 6-B seems to be a pretty resounding negative all around, so we can just ditch that part.
 
Last edited:
But for Kirin, an At least 6-C, possibly High 6-B (since Prevasion is more than likely on, we don't know if Kirin got hit by Lux Ballista or not) for start of game to middle, High 6-B, possibly High 6-A for endgame, and High 6-A for Djinn's Wish sounds good to me.
Fool it's a win win for Kirin, if she dodges it then she's hecka skilled and I can skill wank if she's takes the hit she scales.

You gotta make a decision
 
Does Prevasion really count as skill? I mean, it's automatic and I don't even think you need to stop attacking for it in this game.
 
Does Prevasion really count as skill? I mean, it's automatic and I don't even think you need to stop attacking for it in this game.
shit

I guess Prevasion is an equalizer to a lot of GV fights, but Zed being comparable to GV- I'd HOPE he'd at least get hits in with Lux Ballista- or at least some attacks in general (which would all scale equal to above his casual feat since they're... actual attacks meant for battle that he uses to like... hit you)- it'd be really embarrassing if he didn't. Still, the fact that Zed thinks he needs to use his SP skill to take down a little girl should tell us something about Kirin's strength or abilities
 
A little girl with five Primal ******* Dragons on a literal magic leash.

Considering how Zed chews through talismans with his barrier, I think he would probably get some hits in, but he's still more-or-less playing around during his first fight. Besides, there's a MASSIVE gap between Zed and Serpentine, and Sistina and BB, so scaling Zed to Earlygame Kirin/BB is a bit dicey.
 
Last edited:
I guess Kirin managed to Reload/Prevade Lux Ballista just in time or something to make it all make sense?
 
Last edited:
Yeah, At least 6-C, possibly High 6-B for at least damaging a casual Zed sounds fine for the early to mid-game key, then the endgame/XX Kirin key could just be High 6-B, possibly High 6-A for damaging Moebius GV but still being overwhelmed before Djinn's Wish. High 6-A with Djinn's Wish
 
Question, and this is related to the new bosses that just got released and the other illusion bosses. Do the illusions get their own keys on the respective profiles, and/or are they gonna be counted as part of Serpentine's arsenal much in the same way the image pulses are part of Kirin's arsenal?
 
Given that it took Serpentine significant prep time to create those illusions, and the fact that they don't appear to be that much stronger than before given that they're now only on the level of mid-bosses individually, it's probably not all that relevant in a straight fight. Might be worth mentioning, but I wouldn't consider it part of her standard arsenal.
 
Fair, but given she can easily pop out copies of the dragon saviors, and even ambush BB with a clone of Kirin, I don't think its entirely out of the question she can create more hastily made copies. She took time on those ones cause she wanted to use them to kill Zed later. But in a fight, especially after the ending of the game, if she is gonna have knowledge of them to make those more advanced illusions, making some lesser ones for a quick attack or two wouldn't be out of the question.

And status as mid-bosses aside, the more well made illusions can at least take damage from and deal damage to Kirin.
 
Oh, yeah I forgot, Kirin and Gunvolt manage to Resist/Prevade in GV's case Wonder Ice Prison- which uses Seven Slashes in its animation, but far more powerful since its a lot more than seven slashes, Tenjian even says "Freeze down to your soul" during it-

We get to put those resistances onto Kirin and Gunvolt

(I think Smashor actually already agreed to this in the Discord- yeah just checked)
 
Last edited:
Oh, yeah I forgot, Kirin and Gunvolt manage to Resist/Prevade in GV's case Wonder Ice Prison- which uses Seven Slashes in its animation, but far more powerful since its a lot more than seven slashes

We get to put those resistances onto Kirin and Gunvolt
I'd agree, especially since all the other illusions use their best attacks for their combos. Though, I do wonder....back in GV 2, Tenjian, albiet a copy made by Zonda's own illusionary powers, died from using Seven Slashes. Yet THIS illusion survives doing something even stronger. Does that mean Serpentine's illusions, the ones she took more time to craft mind you, are more advanced than Zonda's that Tenjian can perform a move that would have killed him in the past? Also, the hilarious irony is fake Zonda here is an illusion OF an illusion.
 
I'd agree Gunvolt and Kirin get the resistances from Seven Slashes since they can survive an even stronger variant now. Also yeah, Serpentine in the first place would be stronger than base Zonda even here where we'll tier them (7-A Zonda vs 6-C Serpentine).
 
Alright, I'm just gonna add the resistances in- In fact I think I'm gonna do everything one at a time as the CRT progresses with new developments
 
I'd agree Gunvolt and Kirin get the resistances from Seven Slashes since they can survive an even stronger variant now. Also yeah, Serpentine in the first place would be stronger than base Zonda even here where we'll tier them (7-A Zonda vs 6-C Serpentine).
Well im not talking strength so much as the nature of their illusions. Technically speaking a weaker character can still have a stronger hax. Though I guess that doesn't appear to be the case here. Serpentine may easily be one of the deadliest Adepts short of the top tiers. Fitting, given her role as an assassin and all. Especially if you guys have heard about the unfortunate leak of what the next boss combo is. I won't say for sake of spoilers but...Serpentine is definitely getting a stacked arsenal, that's for sure.
 
Well I'd hate to spoil it for others who didn't want to know the leak.

Also anyone else see the livestreams where they showed off playable Zed? If i were a bettiing man, I'd assume that was a sneak peek at the ATEMS epilogue. It's just a guess though as I don't speak Japanese and that stream didn't have subtitles. XD
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top