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AZULA VS TODOROKI ( 4-9-0 ) GRACE 🔥❄🔥

So while Shouto has lower attack speed (why don’t we just scale it to his speed? I don’t know), he can just send hundreds of meters worth of ice and flame until it works, as his sides equalize themselves out.

and it’s not like Azula can do anything, sending out waves of fire isn’t going to work because the ice will just be replaced, and she will be hit eventually, and eventually getting trapped in ice.

Shouto resists fire as well, and if he ever gets close to being burned he can just use his cold side.

Shouto’s a long range fighter and Azula’s advantage of martial arts is only good in close range, so she has to get close while he just… sends out giant ice creations she’s very very unlikely to get around
 
Let's look at advantages and disadvantages here.

Shoto's advantages here are that he has both fire and ice at his disposal. He's extremely effective with his ice attacks, capable of creating very large ice constructions which can trap his opponents, can do precision moves and trap opponents in his ice, and can use it to create barriers to protect himself. He's also capable of using flames, can fire streams of fire and can even use it in combination with his ice for his Flashfreeze Heatwave, which is very powerful and could likely defeat Azula. He can also resist both ice and flames, so even if Azula hits him with his flames, he won't be critically injured the same way Azula would be if she was struck by his flames.

Azula's advantages are her greater skill and techniques. Shoto's experience with his left side in the U.A. Beginnings Saga is extremely limited due to having focused solely on his right side, meaning he can really only unleash large flames or just use basic streams of fire. Azula, on the other hand, is a firebending prodigy. She can use her flames in a variety of ways, such as jets of flame, whirling disks, and can even use her firebending to achieve limited flight, granting her greater mobility, something that Shoto can't do yet. She can use these larger firebending attacks without tiring, which could allow her to put Shoto on the defensive. Azula's got her lightning bending, which is extremely potent and nearly killed Aang while he was in the Avatar state. She can generate it with minimal movement, can use it to momentarily blind her enemies, and even create large, compressed balls of lightning. She's extremely skilled in hand-to-hand combat, parrying Zuko's fire blades without firebending and just blocking his attacks, and has impressive mobility and dexterity which allows her to easily dodge attacks.

Both of them have comparable AP, but Shoto's ice attacks are slower than his regular reaction speed, which would allow Azula to easily dodge his ice attacks. Even if Shoto trapped Azula with his ice, Azula could use her firebending to evaporate the ice, as she's been shown to easily evaporate Katara's large waterbending attacks. Azula's firebending attacks are also extremely precise due to using her two fingers instead of just her fists. Honestly, I believe Azula would win this one. She's just got much greater skill and techniques at her disposal, and I think that after finding an opening, she's eventually finish Shoto with her lightning or one of her advanced firebending techniques.
 
CiscoTheSoto said:
Both of them have comparable AP, but Shoto's ice attacks are slower than his regular reaction speed, which would allow Azula to easily dodge his ice attacks. Even if Shoto trapped Azula with his ice, Azula could use her firebending to evaporate the ice, as she's been shown to easily evaporate Katara's large waterbending attacks. Azula's firebending attacks are also extremely precise due to using her two fingers instead of just her fists. Honestly, I believe Azula would win this one. She's just got much greater skill and techniques at her disposal, and I think that after finding an opening, she's eventually finish Shoto with her lightning or one of her advanced firebending techniques.
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A. Shouto’s durability scales to 5%, I.E 5.13 tons.

B. No she can’t melt the ice Firebending requires breathing and motion to work, in fact, the very same bender you mentioned trapped Azula in a coffin of ice that she couldn’t break free of. If Shouto Leads with the heaven piercing ice wall (which he will in a serious fight, a Standard Assumptions so he is) then all that needs to happen is that she gets hit, as seen against Nomu, his ice causes necrosis, game over for any body part it hits in a fight he’s willing to kill in.

C. This is season 2 Azula, she would have less skill then her final version, and even that wouldn’t compare to any of the stuff Endeavour put him through at a young age, and he was able to keep up with stain, sure he didn’t land hits, but he’s the only one out of him Deku and Iida to never be paralyzed, even when he had blood gushing from his arm.

D. Stain is faster than him as well, and Shouto can put up firewalls in time to stop stain from touching him, he can do the same here and unlike Shouto, azula wont resist the fire that Shouto produces.

E. Flashfreeze Heatwave, a move which has shown to OH.KO base Deku even when weakened via being clashed against and blocked by multiple of cementoss’s walls, if that lands (which it will, it’s hundreds of meters), it’s game over, even if not instantly, the damage it causes will be severe enough to be.

F. He can do the thing he did against Iida and Deku respectively, even when he was being kicked/punched, he still managed to land his ice onto them, and he’s not aiming to capture here, he’s willing to kill, so yeah, necrosis ice

Note: Ice Necrosis is what he did against the Nomu. the reason it fell apart completely was because of ice necrosis
 
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Todoroki can fly with his ice too, it's similar to what marvel's iceman does, so it's a limited flight but it's something, her dodging his ice attacks is something that can happen, but his ice attacks are too huge and massive for her to just dodge, and let's not forget what Todoroki did against that Nomu when he got caught by Shoto's ice, and before you use the argument of the fight that Todoroki had against stain, remember Todoroki was holding back so as not to hit Lida and the others with his ice attacks, and the fight took place in a small alley and that leaves Shoto much more limited, which doesn't happen here, Shoto himself said that can't use his power very well in a group in season three, and yes shoto doesn't have as good control as his fire, but imagine this shoto being the shoto of season four, his fire attacks are much more brutal and have an area of far greater than Azula's fire,And well, Season 4's Shoto won't make the same mistakes he did when facing Stain, and even though he was very limited, he was still able to use his fire to fend off the assassin and the ice to block one of his knife attacks, and let's not forget that Shoto's STAMINA is very superior and 5 tones vs 3 tones, they are definitely not paired in ap, ok it's not a huge difference but also shoto has a clear advantage in ap, and with his ice, Shoto can move at high speeds and can be very agile with him, as he demonstrated in the movie 2 heroes, he won't stand still watching her approach him, if she can, and the firebenders don't get weaker in low temperatures? Shoto being as smart as he is, when he realizes that, he's sure to take advantage of it.
 
Shoto doesn’t scale to 5 tons, only his durability scales to 5 tons due to taking a punch from 5% Deku, who was able to hurt Bakugo who can make a 5.13 ton explosion. Shoto’s AP only scales to around 2-3 tons due to being superior to base Deku, who is superior to Monoma who is about x3 weaker than 8% Deku. So AP is still comparable.

Azula could still melt the ice if she was trapped using her nostrils, like how Zuko broke free of Katara’s ice imprisonment in the North Pole.

Most of the feats I mentioned were done by Season 2 Azula. Only difference that was shown between seasons was an increase in AP, but her skill didn’t diminish. She wasn’t shown training anytime between Season 3 either, so I don’t see how she could’ve gotten that much better either.

Shoto doesn’t automatically freeze his opponents to death. Only reason he did that against the Nomu was to save All Moght and because Shoto saw that wasn’t a person, but a creature, so he showed less restraint.

Assuming that Shoto does indeed start with his Heavenly Ice Wall, Azula could just protect herself with a wall of fire or unleash a very large stream of fire to block it. It’s what she did when she was surrounded by the gang, Zuko and Iroh. That shouldn’t be too difficult for her.

I mean, even if Shoto was limited in his move set against Stain in the alley, he couldn’t really use his fire against Stain other than to fire streams of flames. He didn’t really make a “wall of flames” either. He just unleashed his flame to keep Stain away. That’s not the same as making a shield. He didn’t shape it the way he shapes his ice or the way Azula can shape her fire. Any fire that Shoto uses, Azula can just repel with her own fire.

Azula’s flames should be hotter than Shoto’s since they’re blue, same way that Dani’s flames are blue, which is pretty funny and ironic if you ask me. Their AP is comparable too, so it’s pretty clear-cut Azula’s firebending is stronger and more skilled than Shoto’s in the early U.A Beginnings Saga.
 
CiscoTheSoto said:
Shoto doesn’t scale to 5 tons, only his durability scales to 5 tons due to taking a punch from 5% Deku, who was able to hurt Bakugo who can make a 5.13 ton explosion. Shoto’s AP only scales to around 2-3 tons due to being superior to base Deku, who is superior to Monoma who is about x3 weaker than 8% Deku. So AP is still comparable.

Azula could still melt the ice if she was trapped using her nostrils, like how Zuko broke free of Katara’s ice imprisonment in the North Pole.

Most of the feats I mentioned were done by Season 2 Azula. Only difference that was shown between seasons was an increase in AP, but her skill didn’t diminish. She wasn’t shown training anytime between Season 3 either, so I don’t see how she could’ve gotten that much better either.

Shoto doesn’t automatically freeze his opponents to death. Only reason he did that against the Nomu was to save All Moght and because Shoto saw that wasn’t a person, but a creature, so he showed less restraint.

Assuming that Shoto does indeed start with his Heavenly Ice Wall, Azula could just protect herself with a wall of fire or unleash a very large stream of fire to block it. It’s what she did when she was surrounded by the gang, Zuko and Iroh. That shouldn’t be too difficult for her.

I mean, even if Shoto was limited in his move set against Stain in the alley, he couldn’t really use his fire against Stain other than to fire streams of flames. He didn’t really make a “wall of flames” either. He just unleashed his flame to keep Stain away. That’s not the same as making a shield. He didn’t shape it the way he shapes his ice or the way Azula can shape her fire. Any fire that Shoto uses, Azula can just repel with her own fire.

Azula’s flames should be hotter than Shoto’s since they’re blue, same way that Dani’s flames are blue, which is pretty funny and ironic if you ask me. Their AP is comparable too, so it’s pretty clear-cut Azula’s firebending is stronger and more skilled than Shoto’s in the early U.A Beginnings Saga.
Click to expand...
this is Shoto from season 4, not from the first nor from the second, his flame control is much superior to his control of the second season, and both here will fight to kill, that is, it doesn't matter if what's in front of you is a monster or not, is it human or not.
 
CiscoTheSoto said:
Shoto doesn’t scale to 5 tons, only his durability scales to 5 tons due to taking a punch from 5% Deku, who was able to hurt Bakugo who can make a 5.13 ton explosion. Shoto’s AP only scales to around 2-3 tons due to being superior to base Deku, who is superior to Monoma who is about x3 weaker than 8% Deku. So AP is still comparable.
Click to expand...
I just said his Durability is 5.13 tons I never said his ap scaled to it.

His ap is 2.7
CiscoTheSoto said:
Azula could still melt the ice if she was trapped using her nostrils, like how Zuko broke free of Katara’s ice imprisonment in the North Pole.
Click to expand...
Zuko could breathe there, not what the HPIW will do if he hits the whole thing
CiscoTheSoto said:
Shoto doesn’t automatically freeze his opponents to death. Only reason he did that against the Nomu was to save All Moght and because Shoto saw that wasn’t a person, but a creature, so he showed less restraint.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Standard Battle Assumptions states that these characters are willing to kill, shouto is fully willing to do it
CiscoTheSoto said:
Assuming that Shoto does indeed start with his Heavenly Ice Wall, Azula could just protect herself with a wall of fire or unleash a very large stream of fire to block it. It’s what she did when she was surrounded by the gang, Zuko and Iroh. That shouldn’t be too difficult for her.
Click to expand...
HPIW is a move which is far stronger than his normal attacks.

it's like Fflashfreeze heatwave
CiscoTheSoto said:
I mean, even if Shoto was limited in his move set against Stain in the alley, he couldn’t really use his fire against Stain other than to fire streams of flames. He didn’t really make a “wall of flames” either. He just unleashed his flame to keep Stain away. That’s not the same as making a shield. He didn’t shape it the way he shapes his ice or the way Azula can shape her fire. Any fire that Shoto uses, Azula can just repel with her own fire.
Click to expand...
Shield by definition is something which guards him, thats what he made.

And Azula doesnt shape her flames, not in the way you're saying she does, walls and whips? sure, but nothing complex
CiscoTheSoto said:
Azula’s flames should be hotter than Shoto’s since they’re blue, same way that Dabi’s flames are blue, which is pretty funny and ironic if you ask me. Their AP is comparable too, so it’s pretty clear-cut Azula’s firebending is stronger and more skilled than Shoto’s in the early U.A Beginnings Saga.
Click to expand...
Zuko's and Azula clashed, and Zuko's fires also orange, Avatar fire seems to be cosmetic, because both were empowered and at their strongest and guess which one was showed to be stronger?

Neither.

Shouto's fire is >2.7, and Azula's is about 3.12, they're even
 
Leaning toward Shoto via bigger AOE, longer range, better stamina, higher Dura, fire resist, steel melting durability negating fire, necrosis inducing ice, potentially instant KO FFHW and possibly incasing Azula in ice stopping her movement and breathing to negate her FB like what Katara did to her in the final season
 
Bruh said:
Leaning toward Shoto via bigger AOE, longer range, better stamina, higher Dura, fire resist, steel melting durability negating fire, necrosis inducing ice, potentially instant KO FFHW and possibly incasing Azula in ice stopping her movement and breathing to negate her FB like what Katara did to her in the final season
Click to expand...
Can I take this as your vote?
 
I was going to vote for Azula, but Acer made a compelling argument so I'll vote Shoto FRA
 
Kaio1277999 said:
this is Shoto from season 4, not from the first nor from the second, his flame control is much superior to his control of the second season, and both here will fight to kill, that is, it doesn't matter if what's in front of you is a monster or not, is it human or not.
Click to expand...
Also wdym by this, U.A Beginning Shoto is Season 1 Shoto.
Kaio1277999 said:
UA begenning Saga Shoto;
Click to expand...
 
Nierre said:
Also wdym by this, U.A Beginning Shoto is Season 1 Shoto.
Click to expand...
I don't think that's the case since after his key ua begening saga comes Joint training arc Shoto, so what happens to Shoto from season three, season four and the movie 2 heroes?
 
Bruh said:
Leaning toward Shoto via bigger AOE, longer range, better stamina, higher Dura, fire resist, steel melting durability negating fire, necrosis inducing ice, potentially instant KO FFHW and possibly incasing Azula in ice stopping her movement and breathing to negate her FB like what Katara did to her in the final season
Click to expand...
Again, his necrosis inducing ice isn't his standard move. He only did it against the Nomu because it was a monster, but he usually shows restraint against regular people. If Shoto was bloodlusted, then yes he'd use that level of ice, but since it's just standard battle assumptions, he's just fighting to win, not to kill. His flames aren't as potent, or at least he doesn't have full control over them yet. His biggest display of heat was against Tetsutetsu in the Joint Training arc, but this is his U.A. Beginnings Saga key, where he had less training. He usually doesn't use his Flashfreeze Heatwave until the end of a battle as a last-resort. Azula should still be capable of protecting herself with her flame walls, and as I already mentioned, can shape her flames into concentrated points and turn them into razor blades, much more impressive than what Shoto's displayed with his flames. Azula's concentrated flames can easily slice through stone, so they could probably critically damage him, if not slice him in half, if they connect.
Kaio1277999 said:
I don't think that's the case since after his key ua begening saga comes Joint training arc Shoto, so what happens to Shoto from season three, season four and the movie 2 heroes?
Click to expand...
He had training at the Quirk training camp to increase the potency and control of his flames, and a few seasons to train his flames, so the difference in skill with his flames and Azula's flames is significant.
 
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CiscoTheSoto said:
.
Click to expand...

CiscoTheSoto said:
Again, his necrosis inducing ice isn't his standard move. He only did it against the Nomu because it was a monster, but he usually shows restraint against regular people. If Shoto was bloodlusted, then yes he'd use that level of ice, but since it's just standard battle assumptions, he's just fighting to win, not to kill. His flames aren't as potent, or at least he doesn't have full control over them yet. His biggest display of heat was against Tetsutetsu in the Joint Training arc, but this is his U.A. Beginnings Saga key, where he had less training. He usually doesn't use his Flashfreeze Heatwave until the end of a battle as a last-resort. Azula should still be capable of protecting herself with her flame walls, and as I already mentioned, can shape her flames into concentrated points and turn them into razor blades, much more impressive than what Shoto's displayed with his flames.

He had training at the Quirk training camp to increase the potency and control of his flames, and a few seasons to train his flames, so the difference in skill with his flames and Azula's flames is significant.
Click to expand...
how not? Shoto always starts with ice, by the way, so what? that doesn't change the fact that he'll still use necrosis,and again
Kaio1277999 said:
this is Shoto from season 4, not from the first nor from the second, his flame control is much superior to his control of the second season, and both here will fight to kill, that is, it doesn't matter if what's in front of you is a monster or not, is it human or not.
Click to expand...
 
The UA beginnings key extends to any arc before JT so this Shoto already has further quirk training in the school camp and experience against skilled CQCombattant like Stain
 
CiscoTheSoto said:
Again, his necrosis inducing ice isn't his standard move. He only did it against the Nomu because it was a monster, but he usually shows restraint against regular people. If Shoto was bloodlusted, then yes he'd use that level of ice, but since it's just standard battle assumptions, he's just fighting to win, not to kill.
Click to expand...
Fighting to win, willing to kill, win condition in standard battle assumptions is by death unless stated otherwise.
CiscoTheSoto said:
His flames aren't as potent, or at least he doesn't have full control over them yet. His biggest display of heat was against Tetsutetsu in the Joint Training arc, but this is his U.A. Beginnings Saga key, where he had less training. He usually doesn't use his Flashfreeze Heatwave until the end of a battle as a last-resort.
Click to expand...
actually he uses it to subdue in solo fights.

If you bring his fight v Deku at the sports festival he didn’t use it out of trauma and daddy issues. Heatwave is an on the table move for Season 4 Shouto. It is Shouto RIGHT before the joint training arc, where his control per his flames is wonderful compared to how he was in season 2.

and Stain is a far, far better fighter than Azula, having 40 confirmed pro hero kills, including people like Tensei who have skill comparable to eraser and knuckleduster, superior to students who easily skill stomp trained mercenaries.

Even if you don’t take that chain Tensei > Tenya ~ Deku >> Trained Mercenary
CiscoTheSoto said:
Azula’s concentrated flames can easily slice through stone, so they could probably critically damage him, if not slice him in half, if they connect.
Click to expand...
That’s because they melt, Shouto doesn’t melt.

Thats a simple thing, he resists fire to the degree where things that melt steel near instantly are fine to him, much hotter than what even season 3 azula showed.
 
Acer__ said:
Fighting to win, willing to kill, win condition in standard battle assumptions is by death unless stated otherwise.

actually he uses it to subdue in solo fights.

If you bring his fight v Deku at the sports festival he didn’t use it out of trauma and daddy issues. Heatwave is an on the table move for Season 4 Shouto. It is Shouto RIGHT before the joint training arc, where his control per his flames is wonderful compared to how he was in season 2.

and Stain is a far, far better fighter than Azula, having 40 confirmed pro hero kills, including people like Tensei who have skill comparable to eraser and knuckleduster, superior to students who easily skill stomp trained mercenaries.

Even if you don’t take that chain Tensei > Tenya ~ Deku >> Trained Mercenary

That’s because they melt, Shouto doesn’t melt.

Thats a simple thing, he resists fire to the degree where things that melt steel near instantly are fine to him, much hotter than what even season 3 azula showed.
Click to expand...
yes, when Shoto was trying to create his FFHW against Deku, his fire melted his ice instantly and the most impressive thing is that this was the first time Shoto used his fire in years
 
I remembered Shoto using a subdued version of his FFHW against some thugs, was that before JT ?
 
Also I rewatched a video on every blue fire bending scene in S2 of Avatar, and her flame blades broken on stone, they only held the concussive force to break stone if they hit heat on.
Bruh said:
I remembered Shoto using a subdued version of his FFHW against some thugs, was that before JT ?
Click to expand...
idk

I can try and find it

Edit: Endeavor Agency Arc
 
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