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Zuko Vs Shoto Todoroki

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Miscellaneous
  1. Azula was never taught by Iroh how to raise her body temperature with breathing techniques to escape ice. Which is why she probably lost to both Todoroki and Katara.
  2. The reason Iroh stood a chance against Ozai partly based on skill and experience. Zuko would get outskilled by Ozai like Ozai did Base Aang. So if Aang scales to Ozai then Zuko should scale to Ozai (and Aang). Zuko and Aang should easily replicate Iroh’s feat too.
  3. Firebenders should have heat resistance. Zuko can literally put out flames with his body and can raise his body temperature enough to melt ice while under freezing water. And has any firebenders gotten burned before? I can’t remember any apart from Zuko. I mean Zuko did get burned as a child and that can be explained away as him not fully mastering his bending or his resistance being bypass by increasing the temperature over what a child’s body can take.
I think I addressed all the other messages with these point yeah?
 
Therefir said:
Which I don't care for because it was performed by 16 different firebenders.
Click to expand...

For the record I measured one of those benders. And I found an old calc on this site that also got the same values I got.

The range argument doesn’t matter now anyway since Zuko doesn’t need to melt all the ice to escape being frozen.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Todoroki never starts off with such a massive ice attack to freeze his opponent. He almost always use lesser versions of ice attacks. In such cases skillful enemies could easily evade or some could just break/melt the ice like we have seen on screen/panel. Zuko can easily capitalize on this fact to win.
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He literally did this against Sero..
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
So no Todoroki is not going keep spamming useless attempts to freeze Zuko in “kilometers of ice” as a starting move. It’s not a move he starts with and it’s not a move he spams with. Neither is Todoroki going to run like a little bitch to avoid an approaching enemy.
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Dude did you literally not watch MHA??? This statement contradicts Todoroki’s fighting style. Todoroki is not an up close brawler. If u watch the Sports Festival (which I doubt you did), Shoto is essentially a zoner: staying at long range and spamming wide AoE ice attacks
 
Mazdoesstuff said:
Dude did you literally not watch MHA??? This statement contradicts Todoroki’s fighting style. Todoroki is not an up close brawler. If u watch the Sports Festival (which I doubt you did), Shoto is essentially a zoner: staying at long range and spamming wide AoE ice attacks
Click to expand...

Do you want me to pull up Todoroki getting into Deku's face?

Want me to pull up Todoroki engaging in hand 2 hand combat with the Metal quirk guy?

Want me to pull up cqc scenes in the Todoroki vs Dabi fight?

Should I keep going?

Despite the fact that he uses ranged attacks as a "zoner", he is not going to shy away from a CQC.

Mazdoesstuff said:
He literally did this against Sero..
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Sero in the tournament?

You realize you can't use one instance to negate several others.

And did you forget Todoroki admitted he wouldn't normally do that but he did because he got really mad?

And as you saw Sero wasn't even submerged in the ice anyway. Zuko would easily get out of that as explained. So no point typing this.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Do you want me to pull up Todoroki getting into Deku's face?
Click to expand...
Only happened because Deku kept rushing him. Once again, watch the fight brother
Arnoldstone18 said:
Want me to pull up Todoroki engaging in hand 2 hand combat with the Metal quirk guy?
Click to expand...
This is because Tetsutetsu broke through his ice to get close. Todoroki is not typically a close combat fighter
Arnoldstone18 said:
Want me to pull up cqc scenes in the Todoroki vs Dabi fight?
Click to expand...
This is because Todoroki in that key learned Flashfire, which isn’t really ranged attacks (it’s similar to how Endeavor fights). This Todoroki doesn’t have Flashfire
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Also Zuko will bring this fight close range and skill **** Todoroki easily. Todorki, who barely has control over his fire side and is okay with his ice side, is up against a very skilled fighter and bender like Zuko.

The same Zuko who can take on multiple skilled fire nation soldiers on his own.

The same Zuko who beat Zhao — a former lieutenant, captain, commander and admiral of the Fire Nation Army, who was also taught by Jeoung Jeoung to become a fire bending Master— in an Agni kai match.

The same Zuko who beat Azula — A prodigee who is a more skilled fighter than Zhao — in an Agni Kai match.
Click to expand...
This is redundant, U.A beginnings, Todoroki already beat Season 2 Azula.
Arnoldstone18 said:
Todoroki was even regarded as a careless fighter by Stain for relying on his quirk too much iirc. Zuko not only utilize bending but also engages in physical hand to hand combat. So coupled with all this with Zuko’s acrobatics… Todoroki has no chance against Zuko close range combat.
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That isn't a weakness for Todoroki anymore, that would be U.A Beginnings Todoroki.

Zuko getting up close would be worse since Todoroki can just surround himself in flames and all he needs is one touch on Zuko with his left side, and he gets frozen in an instant.
Arnoldstone18 said:
  1. Todoroki never starts off with such a massive ice attack to freeze his opponent. He almost always use lesser versions of ice attacks. In such cases skillful enemies could easily evade or some could just break/melt the ice like we have seen on screen/panel. Zuko can easily capitalize on this fact to win.
  2. EVEN IF Todoroki becomes suicidal and starts spamming humongous ice attacks like you claim he would. It is not a problem for Zuko. If Zuko is frozen solid by it he can simply exhale to escape. This technique was taught by Iroh and he used this to easily escape being trapped in Katara’s ice while weakened. If Todoroki does it again he Zuko simply escapes again by exhaling. Zuko does not need city levels of flames to melt only a fraction of the large ice that’s holding him. Todoroki does not even bury his foes in thick ice (almost always their all of or half of body is visible above ice structure). Todoroki could just end up killing himself if he keeps spamming massive attacks like that because there are times where his fire side doesn’t even help him in cases where he uses extremely powerful ice attacks like when he stopped that Chimera monster with a large ice attack and it practically incapped him.
  3. Shoto isn’t going to run away from CQC. We have seen him engage in close quarters combat and keep fighting many times. In practically all his fights even with characters more skilled than he is. So you can’t just basically claim he’s gonna run with his ice sled and keep putting distance to spam more useless ice attacks. Absurd of you to think that.
Click to expand...
1. You need to rewatch My Hero, bro. He did it against Sero, Bakugo, Mr. Compress. Everyone knows that Todoroki starts off with giant ice walls and plays range like he did in the Tournament. Also, they explained it to you multiple times already, you need to be 7-B to break the ice, plus this Ice can freeze and break the limbs of All Might level characters.

2. If Zuko is frozen solid, he will be dead he has no resistant to cold and cold is a literal weakness for fire benders. Sure, if Todoroki uses a lesser version like he did against Deku then Zuko could break out, but he can't do anything against Heaven-Piercing Ice Wall no matter how you put it. If Todoroki starts off with it, Zuko is done for. If Todoroki doesn't start off with it and Zuko breaks out of a lesser version, then Todoroki would just use the ice wall and the fight is over.

3. I've already explained why close quarters doesn't work in Zuko's favor, either.

Arnoldstone18 said:
So no Todoroki is not going keep spamming useless attempts to freeze Zuko in “kilometers of ice” as a starting move. It’s not a move he starts with and it’s not a move he spams with. Neither is Todoroki going to run like a little bitch to avoid an approaching enemy. Zuko can easily work his way around his ice attacks without having to melt them all with “city levels of energy” like @Therefir said and he is smart enough to do that and has done that before. Once Zuko engages Todoroki in CQC, Zuko skill ***** him as I’ve explained briefly here.
Click to expand...
He does it against Sero, Bakugo, Aizawa, and Mr. Compress. If Todoroki uses Heaven Ice Wall, the fight is over, simple.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
And as you saw Sero wasn't even submerged in the ice anyway.
Click to expand...
YOvezT3.png

😭
 
Mazdoesstuff said:
Only happened because Deku kept rushing him. Once again, watch the fight brother
Click to expand...

Do you want me to bring up Todoroki rushing Deku first?

You want me to show you Todoroki and Deku moving in simultaneously for a clash?

Do you want me to show which one of us actually needs to watch the fight?

Its a simple yes or no answer brother...

Mazdoesstuff said:
This is because Tetsutetsu broke through his ice to get close. Todoroki is not typically a close combat fighter
Click to expand...

Arnoldstone18 said:
Despite the fact that he uses ranged attacks as a "zoner", he is not going to shy away from a CQC.
Click to expand...


^^^

Did Todoroki run? Did Todoroki try his best to put distance? And Was it because he realized that such a tactic was useless?

Mazdoesstuff said:
This is because Todoroki in that key learned Flashfire, which isn’t really ranged attacks (it’s similar to how Endeavor fights). This Todoroki doesn’t have Flashfire
Click to expand...

So you admit he wasn't afraid to engage in cqc with a new move.

Thanks
 
Mazdoesstuff said:
Dude wtf ☠️ WATCH THE FIGHT. Todoroki instantly started off the match with an ice wall if you used the eyeballs in your head and processed the fight
Click to expand...

Arnoldstone18 said:
Despite the fact that he uses ranged attacks as a "zoner", he is not going to shy away from a CQC.
Click to expand...


For **** Sakes. READ. I never said he doesn't start out without ranged attacks. So stop misinterpreting my claims and getting mad about it.

Mazdoesstuff said:
Literally like im explaining to a wall
Click to expand...

Todoroki is literally seen engaging in CQC after he sees the range game is not ******* working, HE IS NOT AFRAID TO DO SO. You claimed Deku was rushing Todoroki as though Deku was the one forcing him to do so. NO. Todoroki literally rushes Deku first before Deku retaliates him ARE YOU BLIND? WATCH THE CLIP YOU SENT AND SEE FOR YOURSELF (1:33) Here Todoroki is not shying away from a ******* clash (2:59). So as I have said before

he is not going to shy away from a CQC.
Click to expand...

This is really pissing me off. Telling me Todoroki doesn't engage in CQC as if he didnt instigate it himself, Show me a time stamp where Deku rushes him more than once?


You can not even respond to my other posts anymore. Do the right thing.
 
Fine.

Ive addressed arguments that a close range combat won't happen. I'll move on to the new points.
 
I swear u BC fans cant read or something, it must be genetic

U outright said Todoroki rushed Deku first, which was a lie. Don’t misinterpret my words u buffoon. It doesn’t matter if Todoroki “will not shy away from a CQC”, he’ll always start with ranged attacks and Zuko cannot do anything about them. He did the same thing against Bakugou, where he spammed ice attacks and kept a distance, not engaging in CQC even once

I don’t understand why u keep saying “he will not shy from CQC”. As long as his opponent is not constantly charging him and giving him no space to work with, Todoroki will never fight in close quarters as the first option
 
Mazdoesstuff said:
I swear u BC fans cant read or something, it must be genetic

U outright said Todoroki rushed Deku first, which was a lie. Don’t misinterpret my words u buffoon. It doesn’t matter if Todoroki “will not shy away from a CQC”, he’ll always start with ranged attacks and Zuko cannot do anything about them. He did the same thing against Bakugou, where he spammed ice attacks and kept a distance, not engaging in CQC even once

I don’t understand why u keep saying “he will not shy from CQC”. As long as his opponent is not constantly charging him and giving him no space to work with, Todoroki will never fight in close quarters as the first option
Click to expand...
🗿
 
Whatever moving on from the CQC stuff.

Todoroki absolutely dominates Zuko at long range via far superior AoE, firepower, etc. Todoroki can easily tank every hit Zuko throws at him due to his immense fire resistance, and Todoroki can also spam as many icebergs as he wants by cooling down using fire.

Cannot see a scenario where Zuko wins
 
Todoroki FRA. I don’t think there’s a lot of ATLA characters that can deal with getting a gigantic glacier thrown at them lmao

Though ATLA Firebenders should definitely have Fire Resistance imo. There’s a lot of instances of them withstanding each other’s flames and only suffering knockback.
 
yes, Zuko is not Stain, but with that, I meant that Shoto already has experience in facing very skilled opponents, he certainly won't make the same mistakes he made in that fight, let's not forget that Shoto was very limited in that battle due to the closed environment and the fact that your friends are nearby, but here such limitation will not occur
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
Todoroki FRA. I don’t think there’s a lot of ATLA characters that can deal with getting a gigantic glacier thrown at them lmao

Though ATLA Firebenders should definitely have Fire Resistance imo. There’s a lot of instances of them withstanding each other’s flames and only suffering knockback.
Click to expand...
Hi, Mavy!
 
Mazdoesstuff said:
As long as his opponent is not constantly charging him and giving him no space to work with, Todoroki will never fight in close quarters as the first option
Click to expand...

Uh.. Everything said here has been reiterated by me before.

Don't forget to add that as long as he sees the range game isn't working he will attempt cqc*
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
Todoroki FRA. I don’t think there’s a lot of ATLA characters that can deal with getting a gigantic glacier thrown at them lmao
Click to expand...

Todoroki freezes the distance between himself and the target; making large ice structures in the process. He doesn't throw glaciers and certainly not at that size.

Once Zuko is frozen similar to Sero's case, He can simply melt the area around him to escape.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Uh.. Everything said here has been reiterated by me before.

Don't forget to add that as long as he sees the range game isn't working he will attempt cqc*
Click to expand...
Why would the range game not work against Zuko?? Zuko can’t fly like Azula can, so he can’t close the distance effectively.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Me: makes claim... sends time stamp.

Mazdoesstuff: "That's a lie"
Click to expand...
This antagonization's gotta stop man, on both sides (especially when it's an antagonizing comment without anything else in it, meaning it's really just clogging up the thread). Really not gonna get us anywhere.

Do we have an updated tally of the votes?
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
“Todoroki is more versatile”, Zuko can make several weapons in all shapes and sizes with his fire bending. Zuko can breathe fire and use it to enhance his skills and mobility. Create fire based forcefeilds, etc.
Click to expand...
Arnoldstone18 when Zuko creates a sword out of fire: 😨😨😨 (it will definitely be more powerful than Todoroki’s kilometer long iceberg)
 
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