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it's man, like, Shoto doesn't use fire for a long time and when he goes back to using flames he's already able to evaporate/disintegrate/incinerate tons and tons of ice almost instantly, imagine how strong his flames are in the arc JT?
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Zuko Vs Shoto Todoroki
- Thread starter Doggo
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Everyone has read them. They just disagree.
Zuko would start to melt it and Shoto would just do it again. And again. Because he’s not fighting Deku, or Stain, or anyone else you’re trying to compare Zuko to. He’s fighting Zuko, a fire user. So he will freeze him so he cannot use his fire. Very simple.
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In the JT he almost melted the steel guy and the was without the use of Flash Fire.
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Almost melted him despite him literally training his steel to be tough enough to NOT melt from fire.
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Again I say: please chill out with these sorts of comments that don't contribute anything and only exist to make fun of the opposing sideArnoldstone18 when Zuko creates a sword out of fire:(it will definitely be more powerful than Todoroki’s kilometer long iceberg)
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Okay, this will take forever to respond to everyone so I wlll just summarize.
Todoroki uses the great Ice walls to freeze a large are in its path which will freeze his opponents in place. Similar to Sero's case. Zuko can get out of that by raising his body temperature to melt a fraction of the ice needed for his escape. Thanks to Iroh's teaching he doesn't lose his bending while frozen in ice. And it won't even take long to melt the ice around his body, so I don't understand those who say "Todoroki won't just stand there". Zuko has done it in a second before, while weakened. So why is it an issue for him now that he is amped with Sozin's comet?
Similar to how Bakugo dealt with the Heaven Piercing Ice wall. Zuko can use his inferior range (still very sizeable) to melt and break chunks of the ice. You only need 7-C to completely destroy the ice. Zuko doesn't need to do so. He just needs to create a path by letting large flames constantly flow out.
These are the reasons why Zuko survives Heaven Piercing Ice Wall
Todoroki uses the great Ice walls to freeze a large are in its path which will freeze his opponents in place. Similar to Sero's case. Zuko can get out of that by raising his body temperature to melt a fraction of the ice needed for his escape. Thanks to Iroh's teaching he doesn't lose his bending while frozen in ice. And it won't even take long to melt the ice around his body, so I don't understand those who say "Todoroki won't just stand there". Zuko has done it in a second before, while weakened. So why is it an issue for him now that he is amped with Sozin's comet?
Similar to how Bakugo dealt with the Heaven Piercing Ice wall. Zuko can use his inferior range (still very sizeable) to melt and break chunks of the ice. You only need 7-C to completely destroy the ice. Zuko doesn't need to do so. He just needs to create a path by letting large flames constantly flow out.
These are the reasons why Zuko survives Heaven Piercing Ice Wall
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Ok, let’s say he’s strong enough that his flames melt the ice before it just hits him first and freezes him by overpowering it. I disagree since he has no scaling that puts him on Bakugo’s level for the force or heat of his bending to even remotely do that, but let’s play this game.
Now what does he do. Cause now Shoto’s going to think “freeze his legs” or “freeze his arms.” So now he’s gonna go for ice attacks that freeze critical parts for bending, and if Zuko is frozen even slightly, his whole body will be encased including his head. Near instantly. He can’t even hit Todoroki without risking being frozen.
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“He has an answer to Shoto’s first move that he can spam and isn’t his best option and that he can do again in better circumstances and that might not actually work because Zuko is way weaker than Bakugo and might just get frozen anyway.”
ftfy. Zuko can maybe get past the ice wall. He still gets shit on and never hits Shoto to win, especially if he just does it again. Idk how that convinced you he wins past that but more power to ya bro.
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Zuko is weaker than Bakugo? All he did was blow up a path for himself and prevented Shoto from freezing him.
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Yes. Why is this a question?
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How? What's his AP value in U.A beginnings and Join Training?
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His explosions have higher force than Zuko shooting out a fire blast, and they’re explosions, not just fire. So naturally they’re not melting ice, like you’re assuming Zuko can do to a kilometer long glacier. He’s breaking pieces of it off and then quickly breaking more. Something Zuko has never shown the ability to do in rapid succession like Bakugo did.
26 tons in UA, 41 tons in Joint Training. Same as Shoto. So his weakest key is 2x stronger than Zuko under the comet.
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Firebenders in ATLA produce force tho... Zuko's fire is sends people flying and destroys structures like ice.
Also I never said Zuko can melt a kilometer long glacier, why do you people insist on misintepreting my points. I said Zuko can create a path for himself withing the structure.
Uh.. Zuko scales to Base Aang's 35.2 tons rn.
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Bakugou also oneshots with Howitzer Impact but back to the topic of discussion
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So are wall level force attacks supposed to be enough for him to blast apart the glacier coming his way and encasing him similar to Bakugo or what.
Why would Zuko’s firebending be equal to Aang’s earthbending, when he’s only scaling to his firebending. Which is also his weakest element at the time due to minimal training.
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Its not going to nullify or stop the attack. It is a way for Zuko to survive.
Bakugo spammed attacks to destroy bits and chunks of ice till he emerged from the other side of the wall. He didn't need to destroy the 1km structure entirely. he would be 7-C by now if he did.
Zuko melts a path within the wall of ice with large fire outputs. He doesn't have to destroy everything to escape, only a fraction that's a few meters around him. It's not like Zuko gets one shot by the attack, only frozen. And he can just get out of it by raising his body temperature or preventing himself from being frozen by covering his surrounding with flames or shooting a continuous blast/melting through the wall as its forming so that a path can be made.
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The issue with this is that the glacier isn’t static. It is moving. Shoto is shooting waves of Ice, so he has to fully melt the first wave in order to melt the next wave. But the entire time he’s doing that, Shoto is making more, and is constantly lowering the temperature. So he’s battling not just ice that is already made, but is still being created.
Also, even for Bakugo, it took him several seconds to tunnel out of the ice wall, which is actually what he did. By using force to break the ice into the shape of a hole for him. Zuko doing it through melting it needs far more concrete evidence beyond “he melted ice before,” since the level of ice he needs to melt here, in a short timeframe, while it is being shove at him with higher force than Aang’s own earth bending, is a bit more of a problem than literally any water or ice he has ever dealt with before.
Also, I’m assuming you recognize that he does not scale to Aang’s earthbending since you didn’t comment on it.
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Shoto can also send his opponents through the air and destroy several pieces of cement with his FFHW and Shoto's ice has strength, yes, in the movie 2 heroes he uses his ice to prevent a metal door from closing
Mapl3Sy4up
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The **** did I just come back to
But as someone who has done matches for both verses I’ll try and answer things for one side given how aggressive the argument is getting.
But as someone who has done matches for both verses I’ll try and answer things for one side given how aggressive the argument is getting.
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Also, wait a second. Zuko’s fire shouldn’t do shit to Todoroki’s ice when shot seriously.
Chimera, a villain with 8-A Force and hotter fire than Zuko, couldn’t break one of Todoroki’s ice walls instantly. And that wall wasn’t moving at him, it was just a shield.
If Chimera needs a couple seconds to break through an unmoving wall from Todoroki, Zuko doesn’t have a shot in hell of melting it as it’s moving towards him before it touches and freezes his body completely.
Chimera, a villain with 8-A Force and hotter fire than Zuko, couldn’t break one of Todoroki’s ice walls instantly. And that wall wasn’t moving at him, it was just a shield.
If Chimera needs a couple seconds to break through an unmoving wall from Todoroki, Zuko doesn’t have a shot in hell of melting it as it’s moving towards him before it touches and freezes his body completely.
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Zuko is simply comparable to base aang and can produce that much force. Aang's firebending is fine lol. prove it's his weakest element due to minimal training. Zuko literally re-learned fire bending with Aang from the dragons.
If he sees Ice growing from the ground towards him he will obviously have to defend himself with fire bending.
Thanks to destroying pieces and chunks of ice Bakugo was safe. Zuko simply does the same thing with firebending. This is not a hard thing to grasp. Its common sense to assume Zuko simply breaks the ice keep himself going or raises his body temperature to prevent himself from being frozen.
Has Todoroki ever frozen anyone higher than normal body temperatures with the attack?
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Uh, no. Aang produces that much force with his earthbending only because that feat relies on the mass of the rock he was bending. There is no reason at all Zuko would scale to that with his own firebending force, it doesn’t matter who he learned it from. And yes, Fire is Aang’s worst element, he literally didn’t complete his training with it.
Zuko does not have any feats similar to Bakugo’s that imply he could do that fast enough to not get frozen. So no, he can’t. Also you said he would melt it, now it’s break?
Yes. Chimera. Who literally shoots fire out of his mouth that is stronger than Todoroki’s fire, and then gets stronger to shoot flame beams. Shoto just lowered his ice’s temperature until he overpowered his fire beam and froze him.
Almost like Shoto’s quirk isn’t “half fire half ice” but “half cold half hot” so he’s manipulating temperature and not just throwing normal ice at people. Hence why an 8-A force fire attack couldn’t break an ice wall instantly.
Yet Zuko is supposed to do it fast enough to not get frozen despite having far more disadvantages. Hmm.
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What?
You mean the wall that got completely destroyed in like 2 seconds?
This is the type of exaggeration i hate ngl. Now I wonder what made you think Chimera's fire is hotter than Zuko.
Mapl3Sy4up
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He doesn’t. Zuko and Aang’s firebending are what’s comparable, this key being around 11.4 tons iirc
Lol
Yes, while king did give an answer, depending on scaling you prefer UA Beginnings is 26.69 (hehe 69) and Joint Training arc is 41.11
Range game is todoroki’s preferred combat style, against combatants like Leviathan when he has the option he actively chose to keep playing zoner until Leviathan was forcing him into CQC. Keep in mind that is Endeavour Agency Arc Shouto, who is far more comfortable in melee than Joint Training Arc Shouto
All of Aang’s bending stats have different scaling, it’s why his stats specify different bending feats, something even mentioned in series as Aang has different strengths and weaknesses when it comes to learning different bendings.
Also as king said above, rock mass needed
Bakugou destroyed it through physical force, not melting. Something shown in Avatar is fire that typically behav like we think fire does, it engulfs and only when it makes an explosion does it send flying. Only in super close range or from particularly powerful fire benders does it send flying, and that’s because fire does have density.
Chojuro Kon (Aka Chimera) is able to shoot a beam of highly condensed thermal energy from his mouth, naturally leading to a higher body tempature. Similar to firebenders in Avatar, only proof of their higher body temperatures is them utilizing fire
Also @Therefir don’t you need to remove the MHS calc the avatar verse has? Nobody accepted it
The point is not that it stood with no damage it was that it took 8-A force actual time to burrow through it, Kon scaling to atleast >113 tons, a force far superior to even the best we can give to Zuko by a factor of 3x
Just like how we hate the exaggeration of other things. Drop any remarks, this isn’t the time for that, you can spit at each other after this is done
Chimera’s fire breath multiple times ignited objects by being near it, completely melted ice made by shouto, Who’s ice in season 1 caused near instant necrosis. I won’t get into the math of that (because it’s ******* long) but just know it’s a lot colder than any ice zuko has faced, which has not caused similar effects
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**** “has he froze someone with a higher body temperature,” Todoroki grabbed a fire beam and smothered it by lowering his temperature. So no, Zuko increasing his body’s heat by like 20 degrees or something isn’t saving him if he gets touched.
Chimera’s fire burned Kirishima despite him being in Unbreakable which gives him fire resistance beyond 2000 degrees Celsius for running through Dabi’s fire. He easily overpowered Shoto’s fire, which can melt ice better than Zuko can. Like near instantly melt his own ice glaciers. You talk up Zuko’s fire for making a small hole for him to survive it, Shoto’s fire destroys the whole thing when he lets it out for the first time. Chimera eclipsed those flames and that wasn’t even his full power fire blasts.
So yes, Chimera has better and stronger flames than Zuko. Give me a single feat for Zuko that puts him even close. I’ll wait.
It took about 5 seconds for Chimera’s attack to break that wall. His attack has 8-A level force behind it, stronger than Zuko. If he can’t break the wall in 3 seconds, how the living **** is Zuko supposed to break an even bigger attack moving at him before it touches his body.
Chimera’s fire burned Kirishima despite him being in Unbreakable which gives him fire resistance beyond 2000 degrees Celsius for running through Dabi’s fire. He easily overpowered Shoto’s fire, which can melt ice better than Zuko can. Like near instantly melt his own ice glaciers. You talk up Zuko’s fire for making a small hole for him to survive it, Shoto’s fire destroys the whole thing when he lets it out for the first time. Chimera eclipsed those flames and that wasn’t even his full power fire blasts.
So yes, Chimera has better and stronger flames than Zuko. Give me a single feat for Zuko that puts him even close. I’ll wait.
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Also Grace has been up for a while now.
current vote is 10 to 3, and the 3rd vote for Zuko was late af.
Add this to the profiles and we can see how long the debate keep up, I’m lowkey entertained by the frantic arguing.
current vote is 10 to 3, and the 3rd vote for Zuko was late af.
Add this to the profiles and we can see how long the debate keep up, I’m lowkey entertained by the frantic arguing.
Mapl3Sy4up
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Aight I can do that for you
Mapl3Sy4up
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this match has already extended longer than it should have and man, Arnold only accepts defeat at once man (or woman, I don't know if you're a man or a woman lol), no one here will judge you, I admire your persistence 
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Not gonna lie, I really don't see how Zuko takes this. Voting Todoroki (though the grace period has already ended so...)
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Also, it'd be best if the OP updated their first post to include all the votes so people that click the thread can see who voted for which character
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Alright then. I concede.
Mapl3Sy4up
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Well then, guess we can all go on our way =)
RandomGuy2345
He/Him- 24,075
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RandomGuy2345
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Doesn't Fire Force have 7-C keys?
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I don't know about you but I can make a nice parallel here, after all this reform from high 8-C to 8-B, Shoto was the first to win a battle, just like in the war, in the current arc, Shoto was the first to win a battle....or almost right lol
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