Ayanokoji (Classroom Of The Elite) Downgrade

[Vzearr]

At first I thought his upgrade threads would be dismissed as wrong because they were absurd but I have recently come to find out they were accepted. I didn't care that much until I read his profile and found out he's won over 6 matchups in the last week ! And one was against Goku so I truly can't let this go under the radar because no one beats Goku.

Ayanokouji Kiyotaka's Profile

Ayanokouji's Abilities:​

Fear manipulation: Fear manipulation is defined as the ability in which a character can inflict a level of "fear" on a target using supernatural means. Ayanokouji has fear manipulation from this: "Hirata said that the reason he and Karuizawa had to spill their guts was because of Kiyotaka's eyes, which, in a metaphorical sense, carry abysmal darkness that consumes its prey"

There is no evidence behind this being supernatural. Simply staring at someone and making them tell you a secret isn't even close to fear manipulation, its a normal thing that even some humans can do.

Supernatural willpower: Supernatural willpower is the ability to exceed one's own limits through sheer willpower to a degree extremely far beyond real human standards. Ayanokouji has this because white room students (which is apparently a facility aimed at training kids to make them be artificial geniuses in combat and have inhuman strength) take beatings often and are mentally and physically exhausted from the harsh environment they're in.

This goes against the definition of supernatural willpower. Taking beatings and being mentally and physically exhausted doesn't mean you have willpower above the degree of real human standards. Peak human willpower is immense, humans like Jacques Roellinger survived getting shot, cut and stabbed numerous times, getting tortured by burning splinters of wood on his chest, having a fragment of an exploding shell embedded in his thigh, having his lungs damaged by a passing bullet, getting bayonetted through the liver and diaphragm, and finally being shot right through the jaw. His only lingering ill effect was a stiff knee. Human's like Andreas Mihavecz survived 18 days with no food and very minimal water, there are more examples here but again, this isn't supernatural willpower.

Analytical Prediction: Ayanokouji qualifies for Analytical Prediction through:

(Could easily read all of Nanase's and Ryuuen's attacks)

Now I have read both fights and there isn't any instance of Ayanokouji reading or predicting attacks). The only thing I saw that slightly reminds me of "predicting" or "reading" attacks is this scan where Ryuuen claimed that Ayanokouji predicted his attack and blocked it. This shouldn't get him Analytical Prediciton as Ayanokouji himself states that Ryuuen was attacking his abdomen several times already which made it easier for Ayanokouji to block the upcoming hit.
Resistance to Pain: Resistance is the power to withstand the effects of certain abilities through varying means.

The white room students don't actually seem to be resistant to any of the pain they are subject, they all seem to still be prone to it so why would this even be considered resistance.

Ayanokouji's Attack Potency, Striking Strength And Durability:​

Ayanokouji scales to wall level for these things:

1. Potentially being able to create an opening in an elevator door
2. Beating 6 pro fighters and breaking their bones
3. Taking beating that would have other kids with no air to breathe
4. This thread seems to have been accepted so I'll add this on. Scaling above a character who can maybe destroy a chair

Now to tear these down simply
1. I read the "feat" and Ayanokouji himself states that "breaking it open is impossible" but he may be able to "open up a small opening". Personally I believe this feat is easy to dictate, he can't punch or kick a hole through the door but he can open the elevator doors just enough to fit through. This is my personal bidding and if you don't agree with it that's fine, this feat still couldn't possibly be used to give him a set in stone wall level rating as he doesn't kick a hole through the door, is unsure if he even can ("I might be") and doesn't specify the amount of punches (kicks) it would take for him to do it, for all the reader knows Ayanokouji could be in there for an hour just kicking the door to create an opening.

2. Breaking bones scales from street-street+ and beating a set amount of men doesn't scale to durability nor AP, it scales to endurance and stamina.

3. Taking a beating that leaves children with no air to breathe likely wouldn't even scale to athlete levels of AP let alone wall level

4. For one, this should count as a "possibly" rating as Kiryuuin didn't even do the feat. Two, the calc uses the width of the chair as the thickness of the chair. Three, the calc assumes she fragments the entire chair with no evidence. Possibly "destroying" a chair doesn't necessarily mean fragmenting the entire chair, here are countless examples of what come up when you search up destroyed chairs on google, none of these point to the chairs being fragmented to the point where it doesn't even look like a chair anymore, the calc just assumes she is capable of fragmenting the entire chair when we don't know what Ayanokouji meant, if he meant breaking a leg or breaking an arm rest ect. I also found this video of a (likely) fan of the series who thinks that Ibuki and Fuuka are somewhat comparable, and looking at the Classroom of the elite verse page it seems Ibuki can only wobble and slightly dent an elevator door, now if Fuuka or Ayanokouji scales to 10 megajoules it would suggest they have an AP 2500x higher then Ibuki and most other characters in the verse which would mean that Fuuka should technically be able to kill most of the verse with a kick (which isn't true).

I'd also like to add this calc assumes the entire chair is made of steel (even the parts clearly made of leather) and mixes up multiple values like the width acts as the depth ect.

Ayanokouji's Lifting Strength:​

Ayanokouji scales to a character named Koenji who can grapple with a boar, this apparently gives him class 1 scaling.

To preface this I think boar scale to cattle, and boar's can wrestle cattle meaning they apparently scale to the weight of cattle ? This is pretty illogical, I've wrestled bigger people and trust me I could not lift them, scaling to something because you can wrestle it or even take it down is a stretch.

I'd also like to add that this man wrestled with a wild boar, and no human scales to class 1.

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Yeah, you're right in the case of fear manipulation to instill fear in someone is different from just glazing or threatening somebody the way we can presume or give a character fear manipulation is with sometimes we can say their presence or their aura or its a literal ability to induce fear into the target, the case of hirata and karuizawa was totally Not it so i agree with that ability removal

as for supernatural willpower, I also agree? But your reference was vague yes surviving a harsh environment in some cases looks like only adaptation, but it can also be supernatural will power, unless you really explain why he shouldn't then it's fine because most atimes
Characters often survives harsh environments with their strong will power to survive and all, unless you're saying the wording in this case is wrong

 

[Dinozxd]

Mostly agree with the thread but wanna add some moree things:

I also found this video of a (likely) fan of the series who thinks that Ibuki and Fuuka are somewhat comparable,

They are comparable (according to the supporters of the series in the wiki) but this is a bad justifiaction as this is just a goofy youtube shorts video without any evidence and a solid proof about why these two charactes are comparable.

now if Fuuka or Ayanokouji scales to 10 megajoules it would suggest they have an AP 2500x higher then Ibuki and most other characters in the verse which would mean that Fuuka should technically be able to kill most of the verse with a kick (which isn't true).

Well, only the 96 KJ end got accepted in the CRT and the difference in AP is 24 times, not 2500 but I still agree with this as 24 times AP difference should still be enough to permanently damage/possibly kill (if the hit is on a vital point) with one hit which is inconsistent in the series as even Housen (who is much stronger than low tiers) can only knock down Ryuuen (who is slightly stronger than Ibuki) with his attacks at best.

but he can open the elevator doors just enough to fit through.

I believe forcing open an elevator door requires around this much Lifting Strength.

 

[Arceus0x]

I'd also like to add that this man wrestled with a wild boar, and no human scales to class 1.

I know nothing of the verse but
"The greatest weight ever raised by a human being is 6,270 lbs. in a back lift (weight lifted off trestles) by 364- lb. Paul Anderson (U.S.) (b. 1932), the 1956 Olympic heavyweight champion, at Toccoa, Georgia, on June 12, 1957.”"

That's 2844,024 kg or 2.8 tons - Class 5. So strongest humans can definitely lift stuff in Class 1 and above.

As for the boar part not scaling it kinda makes sense that it should be downgraded since Class 1 is probably for the biggest boars. The average boar is like within 100kg weight but some go higher than that, some weighing well over 300kg.

 

[MarkGoldbridge]

I agree with the OP

 

[Vzearr]

Mostly agree with the thread but wanna add some moree things:

They are comparable (according to the supporters of the series in the wiki) but this is a bad justifiaction as this is just a goofy youtube shorts video without any evidence and a solid proof about why these two charactes are comparable.

Well, only the 96 KJ end got accepted in the CRT and the difference in AP is 24 times, not 2500 but I still agree with this as 24 times AP difference should still be enough to permanently damage/possibly kill (if the hit is on a vital point) with one hit which is inconsistent in the series as even Housen (who is much stronger than low tiers) can only knock down Ryuuen (who is slightly stronger than Ibuki) with his attacks at best.

I believe forcing open an elevator door requires around this much Lifting Strength.

Thanks for helping.

I know nothing of the verse but
"The greatest weight ever raised by a human being is 6,270 lbs. in a back lift (weight lifted off trestles) by 364- lb. Paul Anderson (U.S.) (b. 1932), the 1956 Olympic heavyweight champion, at Toccoa, Georgia, on June 12, 1957.”"

That's 2844,024 kg or 2.8 tons - Class 5. So strongest humans can definitely lift stuff in Class 1 and above.

Does this come from a reliable source ? I doubt there was a human capable of lifting large cars on his back.

 

[MarkGoldbridge]

Does this come from a reliable source ? I severely doubt there was a human capable of lifting large trucks on his back.

The Guinness Book of World Records (1985 edition) lists his feat of lifting 6,270 lb (2,840 kg) in a back lift as "the greatest weight ever raised by a human being".[11] Anderson turned professional after the 1956 Summer Olympics, and thus many of his feats of strength, while generally credible, were not done under rigorous enough conditions to be official. In fact, controversy surrounding the figure in the 1985 Guinness Book led to its withdrawal in subsequent editions;[13] the currently listed Guinness record is 5,340 lbs, set by Gregg Ernst in 1993.[14]

I watched Gregg's video, but they don't fully lift it up like you would lift up your phone or something else. They are just lifting them up about 1 centimers for 2-3 seconds.

Here's the video;

 

[MarkGoldbridge]

By doing this, you can lift things a few times higher than you normally can, if you call this lifting. IIRC the wiki doesn't too.

 

[Arceus0x]

well damn of course there's a vague sport controversy surrounding this, can't have sth without it in our world.

Anyways here is a 500kg dead lift


45 more kg and that would be Class 1.

 

[Arceus0x]

There's then the fact that we don't know every LS feat in the world, there's the issue with controversies like the one above cause of bureaucratic shit and more, there's finally the fact that humans have the whole Hysterical strength thing which could arguably make someone on Eddie Hall's level far far stronger in a critical situation.

 

[Dinozxd]

45 more kg and that would be Class 1.

Peak Human LS top limit is settled to be 545 kg in the wiki through this feat.

 

[Vzearr]

Well this topic isn't really something to focus on, my other points are good enough to rid this rating even if a human can lift near class 1.

 

[Dinozxd]

There's then the fact that we don't know every LS feat in the world, there's the issue with controversies like the one above cause of bureaucratic shit and more, there's finally the fact that humans have the whole Hysterical strength thing which could arguably make someone on Eddie Hall's level far far stronger in a critical situation.

This is true. That's why we are only using known feats with actual records to scale characters' LS.

 

[Dinozxd]

Well this topic isn't really something to focus on, my other points are good enough to rid this rating even if a human can lift near class 1.

Oh yeah sorry. Kinda got off topic there.

I also wanna point out the fact that Koenji gets this LS rating via this statement (just the second scan, the other ones are off topic) appearently. This is too much of a vauge statement to even give a "Possibly" rating to and it's pretty obvious.

 

[Amon.vl]

following

 

[RoggerReggor]

Fear manipulation: Fear manipulation is defined as the ability in which a character can inflict a level of "fear" on a target using supernatural means. Ayanokouji has fear manipulation from this: "Hirata said that the reason he and Karuizawa had to spill their guts was because of Kiyotaka's eyes, which, in a metaphorical sense, carry abysmal darkness that consumes its prey"

There is no evidence behind this being supernatural. Simply staring at someone and making them tell you a secret isn't even close to fear manipulation, its a normal thing that even some humans can do.

Sadly, the person who added this ability didn't make themselves clear and didn't even attach a scan to this. This thing, when done was completely supernatural, and I will tell you why. First of all, here's a scan for it.

Now, reasons why it is supernatural:

• It is said that fear was induced in both Karuizawa and Hirata.
• Both Karuizawa and Hirata shouldn't even be afraid of him. He had no class position by this time, and his class reputation was literally being "Suzune's shadow" and not being something by him (though it is still similar by now, but not the same).
• COTE tries to explain this though about how he gained this, and it is because he had experienced a past so dark that any person who he seriously gazed upon was induced with fear. It's actually done voluntarily by him.

Supernatural willpower: Supernatural willpower is the ability to exceed one's own limits through sheer willpower to a degree extremely far beyond real human standards. Ayanokouji has this because white room students (which is apparently a facility aimed at training kids to make them be artificial geniuses in combat and have inhuman strength) take beatings often and are mentally and physically exhausted from the harsh environment they're in.

This goes against the definition of supernatural willpower. Taking beatings and being mentally and physically exhausted doesn't mean you have willpower above the degree of real human standards. Peak human willpower is immense, humans like Jacques Roellinger survived getting shot, cut and stabbed numerous times, getting tortured by burning splinters of wood on his chest, having a fragment of an exploding shell embedded in his thigh, having his lungs damaged by a passing bullet, getting bayonetted through the liver and diaphragm, and finally being shot right through the jaw. His only lingering ill effect was a stiff knee. Human's like Andreas Mihavecz survived 18 days with no food and very minimal water, there are more examples here but again, this isn't supernatural willpower.

The reasoning for this is not very good, and again, the person who added this probably messed up a lot. Only WR kids who go up to level 10 have this, much like all those who go above level 5 or 6. Any generation which applies these is impossible for any human to survive in. This is because Suzukake was himself asked to make a generation which used high levels and so the human limit could actually be seen for the first time. Level 5 or 6 was considered the limit. Not only was this described, but Suzukake had himself designed the curriculum in such a way that a normal person could go far beyond what their own limits allowed them to go to.

The reason why we add this is because it's pretty self-evident. Not only are they tried to be given Accelerated Development, but their willpowers are also tried to be boosted, and it's fairly obvious that they would require a sense of supernaturality in it if they are reaching these levels. Much like they should as they were forced to do all this when they were kids under the age of 10, even Pokémon described a mature age as 10, you can only understand what would be seriously happening with these kids they were forced to do mature things by the age of 9, such as principles of world leading, studying so hard that they studied university level stuff at the age of 5 or like that.

Secondly, someone who reached to level 10, Yuki, was subjected to therapies for her mental well-being. Her mental state was deteriorated to the stage where she couldn't even go outside. She couldn't even talk about White Room, and even Ayanokouji was surprised that she was surviving even after the mental trauma White Room gave.

The case from Jacques Roellinger cannot be compared to this. Not only they did it as kids, but also it was completely different. Jacques wasn't subjected to something which was not even meant for humans (though it most isn't).

1. I read the "feat" and Ayanokouji himself states that "breaking it open is impossible" but he may be able to "open up a small opening". Personally I believe this feat is easy to dictate, he can't punch or kick a hole through the door but he can open the elevator doors just enough to fit through. This is my personal bidding and if you don't agree with it that's fine, this feat still couldn't possibly be used to give him a set in stone wall level rating as he doesn't kick a hole through the door, is unsure if he even can ("I might be") and doesn't specify the amount of punches (kicks) it would take for him to do it, for all the reader knows Ayanokouji could be in there for an hour just kicking the door to create an opening.

You may read the feat and understand that even he said "even if breaking it open is impossible". Secondly, we don't even know if Ayanokouji is saying this all for even himself or for people in general. And he talked about "crawl through", crawling through strictly refers to the motion for which you have to crouch down , so this isn't a debate. This was brought up off-side as well. Ayanokouji himself said that he would reconsider that kicking down the elevator may be necessary. It generally doesn't make sense if a character were to immediately contradict themselves in the next line, so no, he's talking about kicking it, and he's likely confident that he will break through the door. And yeah, I agree that it doesn't specify the amount of kicks it takes, otherwise it would have been calculated already lol.

But you know why he deserves wall level? He currently would scale to only Ibuki who has 4 kJ feat. Ibuki can be comparable to Nanase. Nanase in her Boku form is said to get twice as faster. If you get twice as faster, the energy your attacks possess through motion, that is KE, becomes 4x. So, his ideal AP should be massively above 4*4 = 16 kJ, which is wall level. There's more reason for him to be wall level.

2. Breaking bones scales from street-street+ and beating a set amount of men doesn't scale to durability nor AP, it scales to endurance and stamina.

Yes. Breaking bones alone doesn't scale you to wall level. But many times, wall level attacks are generally breaking bones, but I agree with this one, it cannot be decisive.

3. Taking a beating that leaves children with no air to breathe likely wouldn't even scale to athlete levels of AP let alone wall level

Who even put this reasoning? It's a Durability feat uh.

4. For one, this should count as a "possibly" rating as Kiryuuin didn't even do the feat. Two, the calc uses the width of the chair as the thickness of the chair. Three, the calc assumes she fragments the entire chair with no evidence. Possibly "destroying" a chair doesn't necessarily mean fragmenting the entire chair, here are countless examples of what come up when you search up destroyed chairs on google, none of these point to the chairs being fragmented to the point where it doesn't even look like a chair anymore, the calc just assumes she is capable of fragmenting the entire chair when we don't know what Ayanokouji meant, if he meant breaking a leg or breaking an arm rest ect. I also found this video of a (likely) fan of the series who thinks that Ibuki and Fuuka are somewhat comparable, and looking at the Classroom of the elite verse page it seems Ibuki can only wobble and slightly dent an elevator door, now if Fuuka or Ayanokouji scales to 10 megajoules it would suggest they have an AP 2500x higher then Ibuki and most other characters in the verse which would mean that Fuuka should technically be able to kill most of the verse with a kick (which isn't true).

For one, no one says that she will fragment the chair. We are going to use a baseline wall level AP found through the calc also accepted in the current thread. Please wait for changes to be applied. We said it to be kept At least Wall level to Wall level+, but soon changed it to At least Wall level, likely higher for high outscalers and At least Wall level, possibly higher for mild outscaling. The feat isn't going to be 10 MJ, it would be a bare 96 kJ which is baseline wall level. Also, Ibuki not only did wobble the elevator, but she had also succeeded in making a large dent on an elevator wall.

I have also discussed how this is completely a reliable statement and except for two people, almost everyone agreed that Fuuka could destroy a chair upon how decisive it was. It's high time we take reliable statements as feats, at least for the verse like COTE which makes it very reliable.

Ayanokouji's Lifting Strength:​

Ayanokouji scales to a character named Koenji who can grapple with a boar, this apparently gives him class 1 scaling.

To preface this I think boar scale to cattle, and boar's can wrestle cattle meaning they apparently scale to the weight of cattle ? This is pretty illogical, I've wrestled bigger people and trust me I could not lift them, scaling to something because you can wrestle it or even take it down is a stretch.

I'd also like to add that this man wrestled with a wild boar, and no human scales to class 1.

Humans can scale to high levels. We define peak human as what a human is able to dead lift via their arms, adding body forces to that makes your body way more potent.

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Sadly, the person who added this ability didn't make themselves clear and didn't even attach a scan to this. This thing, when done was completely supernatural, and I will tell you why. First of all, here's a scan for it.

Now, reasons why it is supernatural:

• It is said that fear was induced in both Karuizawa and Hirata.
• Both Karuizawa and Hirata shouldn't even be afraid of him. He had no class position by this time, and his class reputation was literally being "Suzune's shadow" and not being something by him (though it is still similar by now, but not the same).
• COTE tries to explain this though about how he gained this, and it is because he had experienced a past so dark that any person who he seriously gazed upon was induced with fear. It's actually done voluntarily by him.

The reasoning for this is not very good, and again, the person who added this probably messed up a lot. Only WR kids who go up to level 10 have this, much like all those who go above level 5 or 6. Any generation which applies these is impossible for any human to survive in. This is because Suzukake was himself asked to make a generation which used high levels and so the human limit could actually be seen for the first time. Level 5 or 6 was considered the limit. Not only was this described, but Suzukake had himself designed the curriculum in such a way that a normal person could go far beyond what their own limits allowed them to go to.

The reason why we add this is because it's pretty self-evident. Not only are they tried to be given Accelerated Development, but their willpowers are also tried to be boosted, and it's fairly obvious that they would require a sense of supernaturality in it if they are reaching these levels. Much like they should as they were forced to do all this when they were kids under the age of 10, even Pokémon described a mature age as 10, you can only understand what would be seriously happening with these kids they were forced to do mature things by the age of 9, such as principles of world leading, studying so hard that they studied university level stuff at the age of 5 or like that.

Secondly, someone who reached to level 10, Yuki, was subjected to therapies for her mental well-being. Her mental state was deteriorated to the stage where she couldn't even go outside. She couldn't even talk about White Room, and even Ayanokouji was surprised that she was surviving even after the mental trauma White Room gave.

The case from Jacques Roellinger cannot be compared to this. Not only they did it as kids, but also it was completely different. Jacques wasn't subjected to something which was not even meant for humans (though it most isn't).

You may read the feat and understand that even he said "even if breaking it open is impossible". Secondly, we don't even know if Ayanokouji is saying this all for even himself or for people in general. And he talked about "crawl through", crawling through strictly refers to the motion for which you have to crouch down , so this isn't a debate. This was brought up off-side as well. Ayanokouji himself said that he would reconsider that kicking down the elevator may be necessary. It generally doesn't make sense if a character were to immediately contradict themselves in the next line, so no, he's talking about kicking it, and he's likely confident that he will break through the door. And yeah, I agree that it doesn't specify the amount of kicks it takes, otherwise it would have been calculated already lol.

But you know why he deserves wall level? He currently would scale to only Ibuki who has 4 kJ feat. Ibuki can be comparable to Nanase. Nanase in her Boku form is said to get twice as faster. If you get twice as faster, the energy your attacks possess through motion, that is KE, becomes 4x. So, his ideal AP should be massively above 4*4 = 16 kJ, which is wall level. There's more reason for him to be wall level.

Yes. Breaking bones alone doesn't scale you to wall level. But many times, wall level attacks are generally breaking bones, but I agree with this one, it cannot be decisive.

Who even put this reasoning? It's a Durability feat uh.

For one, no one says that she will fragment the chair. We are going to use a baseline wall level AP found through the calc also accepted in the current thread. Please wait for changes to be applied. We said it to be kept At least Wall level to Wall level+, but soon changed it to At least Wall level, likely higher for high outscalers and At least Wall level, possibly higher for mild outscaling. The feat isn't going to be 10 MJ, it would be a bare 96 kJ which is baseline wall level. Also, Ibuki not only did wobble the elevator, but she had also succeeded in making a large dent on an elevator wall.

I have also discussed how this is completely a reliable statement and except for two people, almost everyone agreed that Fuuka could destroy a chair upon how decisive it was. It's high time we take reliable statements as feats, at least for the verse like COTE which makes it very reliable.

Humans can scale to high levels. We define peak human as what a human is able to dead lift via their arms, adding body forces to that makes your body way more potent.

I agree with this reasoning for the fear manip part
The supernatural willpower still need a bit explaining
So in other words COTE profiles need to be revamp, replace to old ones and add some new wording

 

[Vzearr]

Now, reasons why it is supernatural:

• It is said that fear was induced in both Karuizawa and Hirata.

This is not an evidence of it being supernatural.

• Both Karuizawa and Hirata shouldn't even be afraid of him. He had no class position by this time, and his class reputation was literally being "Suzune's shadow" and not being something by him (though it is still similar by now, but not the same).

This also is not evidence of it being supernatural. People can generally be scared of you even if you have no reputation.

• COTE tries to explain this though about how he gained this, and it is because he had experienced a past so dark that any person who he seriously gazed upon was induced with fear. It's actually done voluntarily by him.

Seriously gazing upon someone and scaring them isn't fear manipulation. It's social influencing. The things you name literally fall under none of the types of fear manipulation

The reason why we add this is because it's pretty self-evident. Not only are they tried to be given Accelerated Development, but their willpowers are also tried to be boosted, and it's fairly obvious that they would require a sense of supernaturality in it if they are reaching these levels. Much like they should as they were forced to do all this when they were kids under the age of 10, even Pokémon described a mature age as 10, you can only understand what would be seriously happening with these kids they were forced to do mature things by the age of 9, such as principles of world leading, studying so hard that they studied university level stuff at the age of 5 or like that.

but their willpowers are also tried to be boosted

You give no evidence behind this so Its a baseless claim to me.

and it's fairly obvious that they would require a sense of supernaturality in it if they are reaching these levels.

Not to me or other users who've agreed.

forced to do mature things by the age of 9, such as principles of world leading, studying so hard that they studied university level stuff at the age of 5 or like that.

This correlates more to intelligence, of course there is a sense of will power behind it but it's most certainly not inhuman levels of willpower

Secondly, someone who reached to level 10, Yuki, was subjected to therapies for her mental well-being. Her mental state was deteriorated to the stage where she couldn't even go outside. She couldn't even talk about White Room, and even Ayanokouji was surprised that she was surviving even after the mental trauma White Room gave.

I mean, again this isn't really supernatural willpower, alot of humans could take this and not k*ll themselves. Especially peak humans with good mental states and strong willpower.

You may read the feat and understand that even he said "even if breaking it open is impossible". Secondly, we don't even know if Ayanokouji is saying this all for even himself or for people in general. And he talked about "crawl through", crawling through strictly refers to the motion for which you have to crouch down, so this isn't a debate. This was brought up off-side as well. Ayanokouji himself said that he would reconsider that kicking down the elevator may be necessary. It generally doesn't make sense if a character were to immediately contradict themselves in the next line, so no, he's talking about kicking it, and he's likely confident that he will break through the door. And yeah, I agree that it doesn't specify the amount of kicks it takes, otherwise it would have been calculated already lol.

And he talked about "crawl through", crawling through strictly refers to the motion for which you have to crouch down, so this isn't a debate

It is a debate if I see it as a different meaning.

And yeah, I agree that it doesn't specify the amount of kicks it takes

Which is why I don't believe it can even contribute to his rating. This could scale to him kicking the door down for hours and we don't know it. At most its a "possibly" rating

But you know why he deserves wall level? He currently would scale to only Ibuki who has 4 kJ feat. Ibuki can be comparable to Nanase. Nanase in her Boku form is said to get twice as faster. If you get twice as faster, the energy your attacks possess through motion, that is KE, becomes 4x. So, his ideal AP should be massively above 4*4 = 16 kJ, which is wall level. There's more reason for him to be wall level.

This has nothing to do with what I'm talking about and needs to be discussed in its own thread.

it would be a bare 96 kJ which is baseline wall level.

You completely ignored my points of examples the author could mean by "broken".

I'd also like to add your calculation is completely and utterly wrong, you assume that the entire chair is made of stainless steel (like the entire chair, you literally assumed there is no cushioning or anything), you also get the chair seat thickness wrong.

Also, Ibuki not only did wobble the elevator, but she had also succeeded in making a large dent on an elevator wall.

Please do not do stuff like this, it clearly states she left dent not a large dent. Using flowery language like this is scummy.

Humans can scale to high levels. We define peak human as what a human is able to dead lift via their arms, adding body forces to that makes your body way more potent.

Again, I do not believe boars scale to class 1.

 

[Zefra3011]

This could scale to him kicking the door down for hours and we don't know it.

Ayano after kicking steel for hours:

 

[Dinozxd]

Ayano after kicking steel for hours:

another proof of him not being Wall Level????

 

[Vzearr]

Ayano after kicking steel for hours:

The image isn't loading for me but I swear if its a badly done photo shop image of Ayanokouji (I still don't know how to spell his name) in a hospital with a broken leg sticking out from under his blanket I'm going to be angry.

 

[Zefra3011]

ok, seriously, I can understand the "we don't know in how many kicks" but are we seriously assuming that would took him an astronomical amount of time?
Do you really think a peak human (street level) can actually making an hole in the elevator even with 100 kicks? His legs would get nuked before, at bare minimum that's baseline Wall which would somehow make him > steel, at least.

I guess a supportive evidence is that Ibuki scales to 4 Kj and an Ayanokouji's fart would probably nuke her existence.

 

[Vzearr]

ok, seriously, I can understand the "we don't know in how many kicks" but are we seriously assuming that would took him an astronomical amount of time?
Do you really think a peak human (street level) can actually making an hole in the elevator even with 100 kicks? His legs would get nuked before, at bare minimum that's baseline Wall which would somehow make him > steel, at least.

I guess a supportive evidence is that Ibuki scales to 4 Kj and an Ayanokouji's fart would probably nuke her existence.

Although I do think its an outlier and could possibly refer to him pushing the doors open. I don't understand why his legs would be nuked. Also, this should really only serve as a "possibly" rating, there's just to many scenarios that this feat fits into.

 

[Zefra3011]

Although I do think its an outlier and could possibly refer to him pushing the doors open.

I'm not contesting that part, I'm only contesting the "we don't know in how many kicks so it might still be street"

I don't understand why his legs would be nuked.

go ahead, kick a wall for hours with normal shoes (nothing to protect your foot) and full strength in each kick, let's see how long you can do it before getting hurt, between you and the wall your foot will be the thing receiving the damage given the wall is more durable.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Fear inducement - Hirata said that the reason he and Karuizawa had to spill their guts was because of Kiyotaka's eyes, which, in a metaphorical sense, carry abysmal darkness that consumes its prey, Stunned Nagumo with his killing intent)

Even Ryuuen affected Hosen with his glare which stunned Him

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Paralysis inducement

 

[XxZetsuxX]

As for Supernatural willpower it's also on the WR page right below it

Resistence to Pain - (The White Room is a hellish place where kids are regularly beaten to the point they have hard time to breath and have to get up despite being tired and full of injuries which also includes vomiting, Has been stated to give trauma, Depression and Physical paralysis, Has been showned kids having what seems to have a heart/Panic attack, And have been studying on a daily basis without breaks, Making all of the kids be tired mentally and physically, The White Room also implied that kids have died in the White Room)

 

[XxZetsuxX]

This should grant supernatural willpower easy

 

[Keeweed]

ok, seriously, I can understand the "we don't know in how many kicks" but are we seriously assuming that would took him an astronomical amount of time?
Do you really think a peak human (street level) can actually making an hole in the elevator even with 100 kicks? His legs would get nuked before, at bare minimum that's baseline Wall which would somehow make him > steel, at least.

I guess a supportive evidence is that Ibuki scales to 4 Kj and an Ayanokouji's fart would probably nuke her existence.

Steel isn’t wall level though. Last I checked completely shattering a steel sword isn’t even 9-C+ so a 9-C could absolutely just bash away at a wall until it would break. They would just need to be a bit into 9-C. Unless a character is stupidly close to the next tier this site doesn’t have the character jump a tier.
Edit: seems completely shattering a blade got upgraded, cool. Though you can still break small amounts of steel within 9-C and without a time frame he absolutely could be bashing at it for hours.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

As for the AP, See it like this;

Ibuki gets one shotted by Ayanokoji

Shiba was stated to have the same strenght as a supressed Ayanokoji, Which means he could one shot her too

However, Later in the fight, Ayanokoji himself says he can one shot Shiba

Ayanokoji also can create shockwaves capable of making people's hair fly upwards which by no means a street level person can do it and mind you Ayanokoji was dehydrated, hungry and tired while making this feat

 

[Zefra3011]

Steel isn’t wall level though

yeah, Mike Tyson can clearly constantly making dents in steel without getting hurt and can reach the point where he can break it, I agree with you

EDIT: you guys are legit saying a peak human IRL can open an hole in an elevator with enough time

 

[Keeweed]

Mike Tyson is only 1.6 KJ. He’s not all that high into 9-C at all. Plus a human can break a lock, and that’s steel.

 

[Keeweed]

I’m not saying he’s human, I’m saying he’s 9-C. Bears, lions, and tigers are all 9-C and they can instantly kill humans in a single hit. A high end 9-C can absolutely make a hole in steel.

 

[Zefra3011]

Plus a human can break a lock, and that’s steel.

yeah, let's compare a minimal part of the mechanism of the lock with an elevator door

Bears, lions, and tigers are all 9-C and they can instantly kill humans in a single hit.

yeah, piercing damage, a lion which run towards you won't kill you, is because they actually make you bleed and cut vital parts

 

[XxZetsuxX]

LS - Class 1 (Can tackle against animals at around their sizes)

Considering Koenji was fighting one, The Ussuri boar charged at him and Koenji blocked it, Hence Class 1

 

[Keeweed]

You are missing my point. The point is that steel doesn’t require 9-B energy to fragment. Thus the feat isn’t inherently 9-B and with no time frame there is no way to prove its a higher tier. Plus he doesn’t even need to fragment it to begin with. Bending it would require far less energy.

The tiger didn’t pierce, it pawed the person. Though ignoring that you are crazy if you think a tiger or bear specifically needs piecing damage to kill a person. Plus that misses the point. I was just saying a 9-C doesn’t = person. Animals above people massively are 9-C. Mike Tyson is at the bottom of 9-C and even then humans beneath him can bend and fragment small amounts of steel.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Anyway, I disagree for the reason i gave

 

[Dinozxd]

Fear inducement - Hirata said that the reason he and Karuizawa had to spill their guts was because of Kiyotaka's eyes, which, in a metaphorical sense, carry abysmal darkness that consumes its prey, Stunned Nagumo with his killing intent)

Both these and Ryuuen's feat are just basic intimidation which isn't anything supernatural.

As for Supernatural willpower it's also on the WR page right below it

Resistence to Pain - (The White Room is a hellish place where kids are regularly beaten to the point they have hard time to breath and have to get up despite being tired and full of injuries which also includes vomiting, Has been stated to give trauma, Depression and Physical paralysis, Has been showned kids having what seems to have a heart/Panic attack, And have been studying on a daily basis without breaks, Making all of the kids be tired mentally and physically, The White Room also implied that kids have died in the White Room)

These aren't supernatural at all as the instructors in the white room don't even use supernatural factors to induce depression or physical pain. This is just good willpower.

As for the AP, See it like this;

Ibuki gets one shotted by Ayanokoji

Shiba was stated to have the same strenght as a supressed Ayanokoji, Which means he could one shot her too

However, Later in the fight, Ayanokoji himself says he can one shot Shiba

You can't just skip tiers and to upgrade characters like that lol. A character who can oneshot a Street Lvl character should just have "At Least Street Level, Likely Higher" or something like that, not Wall Level.

Ayanokoji also can create shockwaves capable of making people's hair fly upwards which by no means a street level person can do it

Stop using stuff that was debunked a LONG time ago.

 

[Zefra3011]

You are missing my point. The point is that steel does require 9-B energy to fragment. Thus the feat isn’t inherently 9-B and with no time frame there is no way to prove its a higher tier. Plus he doesn’t even need to fragment it to begin with.

why do you assume the steel is the only thing taking damage?

go ahead, kick a wall for hours with normal shoes (nothing to protect your foot) and full strength in each kick, let's see how long you can do it before getting hurt, between you and the wall your foot will be the thing receiving the damage given the wall is more durable.

anything in your foot is far less durable than steel, a street level character would take several damage for doing it overtime

 

[Vzearr]

Anyway, I disagree for the reason i gave

Why on Earth did you think it was a good idea to spam the thread ?!!?! Is this some sort of derailing tactic to make the thread seem less appealing to staff ? Because from what I've seen in your past threads you don't usually reply to things in this sort of manner. It's incredibly annoying.