Avatar: TLA Revision

[Dark649]

I have done the primary revision, also this render for Adult Aang is fine.


- After Kep suggestions we should check the others: Base Korra, Ty Lee, Amon, Asami, Sokka, Tokuga [Bad page], Mako, Ghazan, Zaheer, Base Unalaq, Bolin, Tenzin, Kuvira, Lin, Suyin, P-Li, Ming and Tonraq stats.

Note 1: Base Iroh and Roku should be checked if their current base ratings are ok.

Note 2: The Colossus base high 8-C ap and dura [I think it could be higher than 8-A] should be analyzed.

 

[Antvasima]

I am fine with if some experienced members are willing to perform this revision.

 

[Dark649]

I already applied some stuff, but i needed Kep to evaluate the other char. i listed.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, you can message him at fanfiction.net.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Isn't it also possible Aang's Air AP is 8-C just by scaling to Zuko?

Also, since this seems to be a general ATLA revision, I feel like the top tier firebenders should scale to Combustion Man. At least Base Ozai and Iroh, if not Azula and Zuko; especially since Zuko was able to fully block an attack from him, just before the episode where his firebending sucked.

Also, this is Korra, but I just realized P'Li is stated as comparable to Combustion Man, but she's rated at 9-A.

And I just have a question about Ozai's Comet key. did the calc that made him 8-B use regular fire or fire equivalent to Azula's? Because it makes sense for his fire to be equal if not superior to hers, especially if Zuko's is presumed to have the same as hers.

 

[Antvasima]

I am not sure. What do you think Dark649?

 

[Dark649]

Not sure either since the Combustion Man was noted and hired for his sheer power since his best feat has the + while the others is only High 8-C, it would be better to ask Kep.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will do so.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Not sure either since the Combustion Man was noted and hired for his sheer power since his best feat has the + while the others is only High 8-C, it would be better to ask Kep.

But Ozai and Iroh should logically be the strongest firebenders in the world. It's not like Combustion Man is famous for his power, so it's illogical to assume he's stronger than the firelord and a former general that almost defeated Ba Singe Se.

 

[Gunchar]

And I just have a question about Ozai's Comet key. did the calc that made him 8-B use regular fire or fire equivalent to Azula's? Because it makes sense for his fire to be equal if not superior to hers, especially if Zuko's is presumed to have the same as hers.

Ozai just uses regular fire, neither had he dragon training nor was he ever shown to be able to use hotter blue flames. And considering how much trouble he had with Aang's earth shield would it be not unreasonable to assume that he had a lot of scale but not necessarily as much potency with his fire.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Wasn't there a calc that put Aang at low 7-B in AS?

 

[Gunchar]

Not sure either since the Combustion Man was noted and hired for his sheer power since his best feat has the + while the others is only High 8-C, it would be better to ask Kep.

But Ozai and Iroh should logically be the strongest firebenders in the world. It's not like Combustion Man is famous for his power, so it's illogical to assume he's stronger than the firelord and a former general that almost defeated Ba Singe Se.

Aang was actually the strongest firebender and combustionbending isn't the same as firebending(so you can't just scale it like that), i would also actually put Kemurikage Azula above Ozai and Iroh(Firelord Zuko should be also much closer to them now).

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Combustion Man's scaling is kinda weird. He does have thought based explosion manipulation, but he's a bit of a glass cannon; a boomerang was all it took to kill him.

 

[Js250476]

Well IIRC the boomerang just disrupted his firebendeing and it was his own explosion that killed him but the point still stands

 

[MinatoSparkle]

And I just have a question about Ozai's Comet key. did the calc that made him 8-B use regular fire or fire equivalent to Azula's? Because it makes sense for his fire to be equal if not superior to hers, especially if Zuko's is presumed to have the same as hers.

Ozai just uses regular fire, neither had he dragon training nor was he ever shown to be able to use hotter blue flames. And considering how much trouble he had with Aang's earth shield would it be not unreasonable to assume that he had a lot of scale but not necessarily as much potency with his fire.

Or it was a really strong shield, cause all his other shields got one shot.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

@Gunchar

How is he the strongest? Even a calc done for his Sozin's comet firebending only put him at 8-C.

Yeah, but the point still stands that it would be really weird for a random mercenary to be stronger than the strongst firebender in the world. Not to mention the strongest earthbender, waterbender, and airbender.

Why is that?

 

[Hunterzillas]

This has nothing to do with this thread, but I just looked at the Avatar pages and I'm wondering, I thought they were all sub-sonic or supersonic and crap. Weren't the lightning dodges/deflections considered outliers?

 

[Cropfist]

That was overturned in a big thread a while ago.

 

[Hunterzillas]

That was overturned in a big thread a while ago.

Can you link it?

 

[Cropfist]

Thread:947442

 

[Ali_jr_bitch!!]

I mean tho, didn't ozai virtually destroy the entire forest while showing off before the fight with aang? It was stated or most of the forest before they're battle.

 

[Dark649]

It's easy to burn a forest for a firebender, especially for a very strong one.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

On a related note, I was rewatching some Korra scenes and I noticed some showings for Ghaza that might be worth calcing.

https://youtu.be/cOMC8Qo22l0

Here are all of his lavabending scenes.

 

[Ali_jr_bitch!!]

Nah i was just asking. Don't really know to much about all the feats of avatar. I just remembered that being ozais only one, other then than the lore of him being so strong. I guess the only thing he has going for him is the distance he covered with, burning an entire forest.

 

[Ali_jr_bitch!!]

i also found some author statements. If that helps at all, from interviews.

 

[Dziga]

On a related note, I was rewatching some Korra scenes and I noticed some showings for Ghaza that might be worth calcing.

https://youtu.be/cOMC8Qo22l0

Here are all of his lavabending scenes.

I'm kinda surprised Ghazan Lava casting the Trump Copyright Infringement and the Air Temple were never calculated, I'm really skeptical about it being Building Level only. That would scale to Bolin and the Avatars capable of Lavabending

 

[Gunchar]

Uhm wait who has put these parts into Ozai's profile:

(Far superior to Zuko, Azula and standard Fire Nation soldiers)

He should be faster than both Zuko and Azula.

Based on what is non-comet Ozai far superior(superior yeah, but not far) to Zuko and Azula, hell with Kemurikage Azula(there is no key for that version though) would i even argue that she possibly already surpassed him at that point(the statement about Ozai just counts for the series after all)?

But more importantly did Ozai nothing to make him faster than Zuko let alone Azula, he showed pretty nice fire jet speed but overall was he pretty much on Zuko's lvl in terms of speed.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Zuko was able to repel a lightning bolt from Base Ozai, but Ozai is still officially the strongest living Firebender in The Last Airbender, Comet or not. But Iroh is pretty comparable, and Zuko and Azula aren't that much weaker.

And yeah, the Korra profiles need a lot of updating. Much of those characters should be comparable if not superior to even some of the strongest Last Airbender characters. Amon's father was a threat to Adult Toph, Katara, and a number of others, and Amon was stated to be stronger than he ever was iirc. Then there's also many others who should scale.

 

[Antvasima]

@Medeus

Can you give a summary of which characters that should be rescaled, to what, and why?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looking at their profiles, the Last Airbender profiles actually pretty good where they're at as far as ratings are. Though, Dark649 would probably be a better person to ask IMO. The Korra profiles might take a while to summarize.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the help.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

For starters, there's these videos. Yakone as seen in the 2nd one especially, was able to prove more than a match for even the council of Republic City at the time thanks to his Blood bending. This includes, Adult versions of Toph Beifong, Katara, and even gave Aang some trouble. Aang even needed to go into Avatar State in order to defeat him. After losing his bending and escaping his prison, he trains his sons Noatak/Amo and Tarrlok to become bloodbenders. Amon was also thought to be stronger than his father ever was. But both Amon and his brother are both able to use Bloodbending without the need for a full moon, something Katara has never done. I'm unsure about comparing him to Sozen's comet Ozai, but At least High 8-C seems reasonable for Amon. Tarrlok should be comparable if not superior to Katara, and there's also Tenzi and Lin Beifong who should be pretty comparable to Tarrlok and Base Korra.

After the first Season of Korra is where it might get complicated. Unalaq for sure should be stronger, his Avatar State form is legit where it's at, but his Base form should definitely be upgraded as he's superior to Amon and base Korra for sure. The third Season also introduced Zaheer, Ghaza, Ming-Hua, and P'Li. P'Li is quite similar to Combustion Ma, so he could scale to her, being comparable to her allies and a threat to Base Korra sounds like a better justification. There was also the video Cal linked above, if someone's willing to calc some of the lava bending feats, that might lead to some potential upgrades for Season 3 Korra characters and beyond, but for now, At least High 8-C is good for them all. Boli did pretty good against Ghazan, and Mako shouldn't be too much weaker. Suyin Beifong might also be comparable if not stronger than her sister Lin, so she could be High 8-C as well.

Last but not the least is Kuvira. She's probably the strongest Metal Bender in the series, and might be on the level of Zaheer and the others. She's definitely At least High 8-C at bare minimum. And with the Colossus, she should be even higher. The cannon is 7-B for sure, but I'm unsure about the durability or striking strength.

I'll wait for Dark649 to come back and see if there's anything I missed.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, bloodbending seems more like a durability negation hax than raw power.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well, it is, but some characters have legit shown to resist bloodbending through raw power or having stronger Chi. For example, Katara resisted Hama's Bloodbending back in Last Airbender, and Aang was immune Yakone's Bloodbending when he went Avatar state, but I'll let Dark respond. He may have other reasons.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Dark649]

What Dragon said seems to be reasonable.

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks. I suppose that most of the changes can be applied then, although I am still not sure about scaling raw power from bloodbending.

 

[Dark649]

I think bloodbending ignores dura, but the char. like Korra are superior to most part 1 child benders.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. Agreed.

 

[Gunchar]

Uhm i actually disagree for bigger parts, Korra without Avatar state seems to be around the prodigy ATLA childbenders at best and not even in all elements(which is still pretty damn good to be honest, considering her huge versatilty due to all 4 elements) and many others like Mako(he has more lightning versatility than anyone except Kemurikage Azula though) and Bolin(in erarthbending, lavabending is a different story) even outright inferior, P'Li's blasts were pretty obviously weaker than CMs and bloodbending is rly just durability negation and shouldn't get used for power-scaling(the TLOK bloodbenders are indeed more powerful than Hama and Katara in that regard though).

Some of the High-End TLOK benders deserve indeed a High-8-C(but not at least or as minimum and Kuvira is debatable but kind of problematic, cause her biggest strength wasn't AP but pretty quick small attacks instead) imho and the Colossus is of course a completely different beast, but many others were actually not that impressive in terms of raw power(even someone like Zaheer is not too great in that regard, true flight is what makes him rly impressive).