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Avatar: TLA Revision

Bloodbending in itself is more so hax rather than AP yes, but you got to consider the fact Katara and Hana required a full moon to Bloodbend, because their Chi wasn't strong enough naturally to do so without it. Yakone and his two sons on the other hand had Chi that was strong enough to do the same in broad daylight, so they did have stronger chi than young Katara. Also, characters have been shown to resist water bending through raw power as mentioned above; or by bending their own blood with greater force/kinetic energy.

Amon also rarely uses bloodbending till he actually touches his opponents physically at least. Before using Chi sealing, taking away bending powers, he basically just uses sheer physical strength and martial arts. Even without power scaling, Mako's Lightning bending would still be Building level+ given 5 Gigajoules being the baseline AP for Lightning bolts. But there's more. The Season 3 villains are definitely quite strong, Zaheer was originally a nonbender long ago, but even then, the 4 of them were single handedly considered threats to entire armies. Ming-Hua and Tenzan are also legit considered the among strongest benders of their time; that puts them on the level of Katara and Toph for sure, if not superior.

Kuvira making small quick attacks can still be translated as AP; even if it's not destructive capacity, it's still precision strikes, and high velocity can still translate to high AP. (Won't calc stack, but being twice as fast inherently makes an object 4x stronger.) And stomping Base Korra isn't her only feat, there's also the fact that she did better against the Season 3 villains than just about everyone else; including both Beifong sisters.
 
Okay. I suppose that makes sense.
 
I highly doubt it works like that with Chi, they were probably simply better trained in bloodbending(or had maybe even a genetical component for it, considering that only Yakone's ever showed that ability without full moon) and the only non-waterbender i remember that arguably shortly resisted due to physicals was Mako.

Uhm not sure what's even your point with Amon using a lot of martial arts while pretending to be a non-bender? And we can't just use baseline AP for lightningbending in general, skilled lightningbenders can even explicitly control the power of their attacks(so there exist obviously big differences in terms of AP)

RCO041 1468895226
This little zap for example:


is obviously not comparable

with this huge lighning sphere/ball:
RCO072 1468895226


I don't think we should take these hyperbolic statements too seriously, what we actually saw from them wasn't remotely impressive enough to back that up(hell Zaheer got even with bending his ass kicked by Tenzin and couldn't even land just a single hit on him). Don't get me wrong they are quite strong and someone like Tenzin should be indeed on Katara's and Tophs lvl but Zaheer without bending a threat to entire armies, come on now that makes no sense at all.

That's true but i find them hard to calc, cause they are not as clear-cut as Aang's machine gun rocks in the finale and probably more comparable with Azula's relatively small fireball that pretty much KOed the walking tank Zuko. But Kuvira is indeed pretty impressive.
 
I agree that Zaheer did not seem impressive in terms of raw power. He got by through skill and guile.
 
Anyway, can somebody remind me what needs to be done here?
 
@Gunchar, Avatar's power scaling is actually pretty similar to Dragon Ball power scaling. It's actually quite linear; at least when comparing two or more ofto the same element. Still, there's also the fact that Katara was still unable to bend her own blood to resist Yakone's bloodbending, despite being more than capable of doing the same against Hana.

It means Amon overpowers foes without use of Bloodbending very consistently. Anyway, Tarrlok should also be fairly comparable to Tenzin; they're considered rivals and that's despite him hiding his ancestral background or bloodbending skills. Was agreed that Tenzin should be on the level of his parents. It requires 5 Gigajoules to even summon a lightning bolt in the first place; and it was agreed and discussed multiple times that it is real lightning. Small lightning bolts can still be precision strikes.

Zaheer comment is a good point, and I didn't mean he single handedly a threat to entire armies as a non bender, but he was still the leader, and the four of them were legit that dangerous. Ming-Hua and Ghazan are for sure far more powerful than regular benders. And same could be said about P'Li, but she still shouldn't be that much weaker than Combustion Man. Zaheer is also listed as being fairly equal to Tenzin. Airbenders in general aren't always considered damage dealers, though are more agile than other benders yes. The Kuvira stuff and Azula's small fireballs are still precision strikes.

@Antvasima, since Dark seems to agree with me, I think all the main villains of Korra are High 8-C; this includes Amo, Base Unalaq, Ghaza, Ming-Hua, P'Li, likely Zaheer, and Kuvira. The adult descendants should also be on the level of their child parents, so Tenzi, Lin Beifong, and Suyin Beifong. Who I'm not sure are Mako, Boli, and Korra. They shouldn't be that much weaker than the villains, especially in the later seasons, but there are some notable inconsistencies in the earlier seasons. But more keys might be a possible option, but want to hear Dark's thoughts on that.
 
Well, somebody experienced with editing profiles needs to carry out the accepted changes.

You should remind Kepekley23 about this via his message wall.
 
Yeah, Kepekley's back, he was still blocked last time the thread was bumped , so he's the best person to ask. I'll remind him via message wall.
 
What here still needs evaluation? I thought it'd been implemented in my absence?
 
I don't think that this was ever implemented, but I may be wrong.

Would you be willing to handle it?
 
The Legend of Korra profiles are heavily outdated as mentioned above, and people are saying Katara should be High 8-C with or without the Full Moon by book 3.

I mentioned quite a few characters in Korra who should be High 8-C scaling from characters like Tenzin and Lin; who should be no weaker than their child parents.
 
Sadly my Korra knowledge has waned out quite a bit since 2017 or so...what are the summarized problems?
 
Comes from multiple connections/sources; but I'll re-summarize. For one, there's no reason for one Tenzin should be any weaker than kid Base Aang and Kid Katara. Same with Lin and Suyin Beifong compared to Kid Toph, who are High 8-C as well. Tarlokk, even without bloodbending is fairly evenly matched with Tenzin and other council members. Yakone is also superior to Hana as he's able to bloodbend without the full moon, which Katara and Hana didn't have strong enough chi to do so naturally. And he single handedly was more than a match for Adult Katara, Zuko, Toph, and base Aang, and many others; only able to be defeated by Avatar state. The controversial part is that bloodbending is hax rather than AP, but Avatar is a bit like Dragon Ball where the tiering is somewhat linear and people have a tendency to resist hax through raw power. And there's other back ups mentioned above and below

Naotak/Amon is was stated to be superior to Yakone ever was, and was a threatening antagonist of Season 1 even without Bloodbending; as he's always actively trying to hide is identity in every fight. So rather than using hax, he typically uses sheer raw power, speed, and martial arts to best his foes; not using hax until after he touches the skull with his finger tips. Korra was only able to defeat him through Avatar State.

Unalaq is pretty self explanatory; he already has his 7-B key, but his base from should be superior to Tenzin and the others if anything. Then the season 3 antagonists; all except for Zaheer were widely regarded ad being the strongest benders of the era, where even the united nations entire armies feared them. Zaheer was more so through wits, and even with airbending, he was more agile rather than strong, but should still be on Tenzin's level. Ghazan and Ming-Hua on the other hand were both absurdly powerful; Ghazan especially was easily superior to the Beifong sisters. Additionally, his lava bending feats could potentially be calc'd, but he should still be High 8-C via power scaling.

And last is Kuvira. In season 3, she was the best metal bender and did better against the season 3 villains than anyone else. And she was a highly intimidating foe in Season 4; where she curb stomped base Korra, and just about every enemy she fights. So pretty much, the entire Legend of Korra cast should be High 8-C due to being comparable if not superior to kid Katara and Toph. Only ones I'm skeptical about are Korra, Mako, and Bolin, but they could have multiple keys, and even season one should scale to Mako's lightning; which is at least Building level+.
 
I think that Medeus seems to make sense.
 
So are some experienced members willing to apply the changes?
 
Dark649 has updated some of the profiles, and I've updated the rest. I believe the thread is concluded now.
 
Wait, i think i have to adress little things before:

- Some profiles needs a little cleaunup but nothing notable.

- Korra Base rating is towards EoS while i don't recall Mako and Bolin getting stronger maybe because the focus of the series was later aimed at Korra and little for them.

- I think Tokuga profile needs to remade.
 
Oh yeah, some of the lifting strength ratings are inconsistent I noticed. Korra's base stats profile is a good point yes. As for Mako or Bolin, I don't notice too much regarding Mako, but Bolin basically became a one man army towards the end of Season 2. And he did learn lava bending in season 3.

And oh yeah, forgot about Tokuga. His profile is a big mess.
 
A High 8-C key for EoS Bolin is fine, we need to find a physically lifting strength from a fodder and scale them, for Tokuga i don't know his feat.
 
Thank you for updating the profiles.
 
Dark649 said:
A High 8-C key for EoS Bolin is fine, we need to find a physically lifting strength from a fodder and scale them, for Tokuga i don't know his feat.
Click to expand...
Someone should implement that. He's still 8-C.
 
Also, this isn't guaranteed, but maybe Katara should get an At Least 8-C, possibly High 8-C for Season 2 for performing well against Azula.
 
Is somebody willing to update the remaining characters?
 
@GokuSparkle, Katara is good where she's at IMO. And "Water Statue" isn't really different then what the keys she already has is capable of. As for Bolin and Korra, there could be other things to discuss, but Dark and I will take care of them.

Tokuga, I actually don't remember him. I think he only appeared in one of the comics, which I'm not really familiar with. But judging based on his description, he basically sounds like Legend of Korra's version of Ty Lee. Probably not a tier character, but rather a heavy speed pressure point user. Our strongest Non-Benders appear to be 9-B scaling from Sokka.
 
Have these revisions been carried out?
 
I think I heard it was mostly just minor stuff left. Korra might need a early series key separated from her later on tier similar to what Boli. Other than that, there was something inconsistent regarding the lifting strength of fodder characters.

But I think the main concern is Tokuga. His profile looks rather messy, and I think it was undecided what to do with him. His speed looks fine, but I think it was said he should preferably scale from other Non-Benders/Chi Blockers such as Sokka and Ty Lee.
 
Okay. Thank you for the replies. Can any of these changes be performed now, or should we discuss about them a bit first?
 
Hmmm i have still a pretty big problem with this(Ozai seems to get pretty damn overrated and Azula and Zuko pretty damn underrated in his profile):

Attack Potency: At least Large Building level (Far superior to Zuko, Azula and standard Fire Nation soldiers)

Speed: Massively Hypersonic | At least Massively Hypersonic combat speed and reactions (He should be faster than both Zuko and Azula. Somewhat kept up with Aang in his Avatar state)

Zuko and Azula themselves are obviously far superior to standard Fire Nation soldiers and Ozai has nothing to indicate he was far superior to them, hell his fire-potency is most likely even weaker if anything(he makes up for that with scale though).

In terms of speed makes it even less sense, barring flight speed(which makes especially as comparison to Zuko no sense at all) were his feats not more impressive than Zuko's and even straight up less impressive than Azula's.

He was indeed the most powerful Firebender during the time of the series that got confirmed but such a vague statement just means he was somewhat superior to Zuko and Azula(and the fact that Kemurikage Azula completely outclasses him with lightning after just three years of very limited training speaks for itself to be frank, just besides Zuko explicitly showing multi-colored dragon fire for example), not far superior and by no means is there any indication that he was faster in terms of combat speed and reactions.
 
@Gunchar

The High 8-C calc was how strong fodder firebenders were during Sozen's comet; which Zuko and Azula are 8-B at this point in time scaling from their own feats. So don't really see a problem in that. Also, everyone's Massively Hypersonic in combat speed via dodging lightning. Ozai also was able to somewhat keep up with Mastered Avatar State Aang; who's consistently shown to outpace Zuko and Azula even in base form. Word of God and everyone else outright confirm Ozai being the strongest Firebender in TLAB arc.
 
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