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Asta vs Kaidou

MonkeyOfLife said:
it's still a slash, it's not a big AOE

And it's not even in his profile that his range is that far
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You brought the scan of the damn feat and you’re still pulling the “not on his page card”

Said slash is bigger than Kaidou’s damn body how ever way you look at it. Common sense tells you that the slash is notably visible even after slashing clouds HORIZONTAL TO ASTA. Not vertical.. horizontal deep into the horizon. It’s big. It’s very ******* big. And it’s clear it gets bigger the further it dissipates cuz at closer range it still makes cuts kilometers wide since we know the dragons are many many kilometers long.

Kaidou is not even a kilometer in height unless you count the dragon form which just makes him a bigger target. At close range Kaidou is simply not dodging a speed blitz from an attack that size from a precog user who acts instinctively to whatever the other precog user does.
 
Asta has a pretty big BIQ advantage over Kaido, and unlike Luffy, he can do some serious damage compared to him with a much more spammable move that also pretty much one shots Kaido. Plus he also has the benefit of having his transformation lasting longer than Luffy's, so he won't need to restart Devil Union a million times, which also HUGELY amps his speed, on top of Zetten giving him that 20x amp. In short, Asta is smarter (in combat) and much more dangerous than Luffy when it comes to his damage output.
 
MonkeyOfLife said:
What?

Nah, luffy whos resistant to blunt force attacks get negated by Haki

The other is resistance to resistance negation which is haki overpowering other haki so that it can effect you
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Haki negates devil fruit specific abilities like logia. Why not rubber powers? Haki hard counters devil fruit.

All this is just Haki to haki interaction. It’s not going to somehow negate the resistance of water proof material the same way it ain’t negating protective energy resistance.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
You brought the scan of the damn feat and you’re still pulling the “not on his page card”
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how is that thousands of km?
Arnoldstone18 said:
At close range Kaidou is simply not dodging a speed blitz from an attack that size from a precog user who acts instinctively to whatever the other precog user does.
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Kaido's obs Haki acts subconsciously, so he's body will also be moving on it's own, plus with the perception Amp of a kid with initial obs haki being able to precieve lightning speed, he's not getting blitzed.

This is also someone who can counter the future sight of luffy who countered the future sight of katakuri who countered whole cake island luffy's precog
 
Nierre said:
zetten blitzes terribly

his obs has no feats of reacting to something 20x faster than himself
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The 20x faster thing has been nuked unfortunately. Rn it’s just a massive unquant speed amp.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Not only is Zetten spammable, Asta literally has multiple blitz worthy transformations from black mode blitzing Langris who was comparable to him to berserk mode matching Dante severely blitzing him to devil union speed blitzing Nacht who was already faster than him prior to unlocking it. Then you have freaking Zetten’s massive blitz stacked into these transformations.
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This is still less than Kaidou.

I mean we have Hybrid Kaidou who could dodge an attack that blitzed his Base form (Red Roc) with ease, and then Thunder Bagua being able to blitz people who are relative to his Hybrid form.
Then we have Shuron Hakke which allowed Base Kaidou to dodge an attack that blitzed his Hybrid form (Roc Gun)

Then after just one more sip, he was able to blitz an attack that prior to accelerating for an extended period of time could blitz him.

And then we have Thunder Bagua variants with each being a blitz over the rest.

Kaidou has more blitzes and speed amps, with Shuron Hakke allowing him to get blitz levels faster any time he wants.

Zetten is absolutely not an issue when Kaidou can also literally see into the future.
Arnoldstone18 said:
Not to mention Asta’s skill set at this point in the series in conjunction with precog+instinctive reactions enables him to defend against speed blitzes from Zetten users. Keeping in mind that before Asta was weaving through light speed attacks he could only react to them with precog now he has skill sets that range from (sense manipulation via movements to instinctive reactions).
Click to expand...
This isn't anything at all. Kaidou was able to completely blitz Luffy with a Thunder Bagua while he was using future sight. This is a Luffy 1000 chapters removed from the version of himself that through sheer instinctive reactions could defend against not just a normal speed blitz, but someone who at the time was 2596.8x faster than him. Kaidou is able to blitz this dude consistently over, and over, and over, and over again, just with his Baguas.
Arnoldstone18 said:
On top of everything you have accelerated development boosting his speed (and power) the longer he fights. So I really don’t want to hear allat tbvfh g.
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That's so funny how you say that considering Kaidou is quite literally getting stronger Haki, becoming physically stronger, more durable, and faster as the fight goes on too. Enough to be able to kill someone he was relative to in 2 hits.
Arnoldstone18 said:
It’s not analytical prediction. Asta simply knows their opponents moves through their life force and reacts to them instinctively faster.
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This is quite literally basic Kenbun. It's analytical prediction, not divination.

Kaidou's base Kenbun is already far above basic Kenbun. Future Sight is exponentially greater than even that.
Arnoldstone18 said:
I don’t care how good Kaido’s precog is he is no evading a speed blitzing slash thousands of kilometers in size and range.
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I don't know man, Franky dodged something similar pretty easily.
Arnoldstone18 said:
He does, he has like 3 profiles.

If you can’t find it I’ll send the crt I made 2 years ago.
Click to expand...
It's not on his profile. Send the CRT.
 
Anyways, voting Kaidou.

The fight would be close in the beginning staged of Kaidou's Shuron Hakke, but he'd eventually become too fast for Asta to be able to touch, and he's to tanky to go down from one or two good Zetten hits. His attacks are stronger than Asta's durability, and he can vaporize him with Kaen Daiko.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Haki negates devil fruit specific abilities like logia.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
No it does not, logia are completely natural elements anyway

Luffy uses haki with even his own fire attacks created by just acceleration
Arnoldstone18 said:
All this is just Haki to haki interaction. It’s not going to somehow negate the resistance of water proof material the same way it ain’t negating protective energy resistance.
Click to expand...
Because haki hasn't shown to even resist or negate that... Idk how that's even comparable
 
Haki has resistance negation. Asta's heat resistance is getting axed and he's getting vaporized by Kaen Daiko before he can even come close enough to attack it with Zetten.
 
I'll vote kaido as well based on kachon's reasoning, they seem valid
 
MonkeyOfLife said:
how is that thousands of km?
Click to expand...

Look at the calc associated with the feat. It slashes clouds all throughout a land the size of japan (less than 3000km). If you are standing in flat land at sea level the clouds in the edge of the horizon stretch out many hundreds of kilometers away. Now imagine you are Asta many miles above the ground looking into the same horizon.

MonkeyOfLife said:
Kaido's obs Haki acts subconsciously, so he's body will also be moving on it's own, plus with the perception Amp of a kid with initial obs haki being able to precieve lightning speed, he's not getting blitzed.

This is also someone who can counter the future sight of luffy who countered the future sight of katakuri who countered whole cake island luffy's precog
Click to expand...

BS logic. Just because they collect future info subconsciously doesn’t mean their actions are subconscious. He literally needs the ability to fight subconsciously.

And you are telling me that “kid” did not aim dodge said lightning? Lightning that can not change its trajectory or its mind like a human? Lightning that doesn’t also have precog and skill against other precog users? Be fr. Lmao. He is getting blitzed before he changes position when Asta spams it. Precog can only go so far without skill and IQ against other precog users.


Asta has stole skills that counter his precog and he has fought the most skilled warriors in the Land of the Sun like Ichika who is more skilled than members of her group as well as kijin assassins who were just one of the best military power tasked with guarding the shogun.
 
Kachon123 said:
This is still less than Kaidou.

I mean we have Hybrid Kaidou who could dodge an attack that blitzed his Base form (Red Roc) with ease, and then Thunder Bagua being able to blitz people who are relative to his Hybrid form.
Then we have Shuron Hakke which allowed Base Kaidou to dodge an attack that blitzed his Hybrid form (Roc Gun)

Then after just one more sip, he was able to blitz an attack that prior to accelerating for an extended period of time could blitz him.

And then we have Thunder Bagua variants with each being a blitz over the rest.

Kaidou has more blitzes and speed amps, with Shuron Hakke allowing him to get blitz levels faster any time he wants.

Zetten is absolutely not an issue when Kaidou can also literally see into the future.
Click to expand...

almost all of what you mentioned are attack speed not dodging speed.

He gets blitzed
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Look at the calc associated with the feat. It slashes clouds all throughout a land the size of japan (less than 3000km). If you are standing in flat land at sea level the clouds in the edge of the horizon stretch out many hundreds of kilometers away. Now imagine you are Asta many miles above the ground looking into the same horizon.
Click to expand...
Get it on his profile.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
BS logic. Just because they collect future info subconsciously doesn’t mean their actions are subconscious.
Click to expand...
They are and is accepted as such
Arnoldstone18 said:
And you are telling me that “kid” did not aim dodge said lightning? Lightning that can not change its trajectory or its mind like a human? Lightning that doesn’t also have precog and skill against other precog users? Be fr. Lmao. He is getting blitzed before he changes position. Precog can only go so far without skill and IQ against other precog users.
Click to expand...
No... Because she precieved it's movements, she didn't dodge anything. Which is also accepted.
 
so all these haki users are perceiving attacks thousands of times faster than themselves is what im hearing
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Look at the calc associated with the feat. It slashes clouds all throughout a land the size of japan (less than 3000km). If you are standing in flat land at sea level the clouds in the edge of the horizon stretch out many hundreds of kilometers away. Now imagine you are Asta many miles above the ground looking into the same horizon.
Click to expand...
this? Which Calc? There's no Calc on his page
 
I find it so funny how the arguments against Kaidou being able to negate Asta's resistances or Kaidou being able to dodge or react are "nuh uh" even though it's accepted as such on the profiles.
 
Nierre said:
so all these haki users are perceiving attacks thousands of times faster than themselves is what im hearing
Click to expand...
No, but Zetten or any of Asta's amps don't have feats to say that they can blitz a Kaidou who's movement, attack, and reaction speeds are already a blitz level above Asta's base.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Getting body blitzed is the issue here.
Click to expand...
No it's not.
Kachon123 said:
With Zetten, Kaidou's durability is around 6x lower than Asta's, but because he would see the slash coming before it happens, even if he can't dodge he would still be able to coat his body in Haki like Doflamingo did. Depending on the sword, Asta's attacks still cut (it shouldn't really matter due to Rebecca's blunt blade), and because Kaidou's Buso is far superior to Dressrosa Luffy he should be able to endure a Zetten attack or two (Luffy back in Dressrosa could endure Doflamingo's awakening attacks with Buso due to sheer slashing/piercing resistance), let alone Haoshoku Infusion which progressively gets stronger while in Shuron Hakke to the point where it can completely overpower someone whose Haki was relative to his own moments prior.
Click to expand...
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Getting body blitzed is the issue here.

And that just looks like Doffy reacting last second.
Click to expand...
He isn't... He's simply unable to do anything because of the difference in speed and can only keep up from afar with aoe and obs haki, same happened to sandersonia

Not sure how getting body blitzed is the issue when kachon gave more blitz amps then asta
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
it is. A 7 zettaton slash attack from a katana is cutting through.
Click to expand...
It's not enough to oneshot Kaidou. He could probably cut through, but it's not dealing nearly enough to put Kaidou down, especially considering how much of a tank he is.
 
MonkeyOfLife said:
Not sure how getting body blitzed is the issue when kachon gave more blitz amps then asta
Click to expand...

Spamming thunder bagua majority of the time is not dodging speed. It’s attack speeds. I gave many combat speed amps (dodging, reacting, attacking) + the massive Attack speed from Zetten. Kaido is not dodging.

Goodnight. Responding tomorrow.
 
Kachon123 said:
It's not enough to oneshot Kaidou. He could probably cut through, but it's not dealing nearly enough to put Kaidou down, especially considering how much of a tank he is.
Click to expand...

A cutting attack 6.4x stronger than him and cutting through him. He’s done.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
A cutting attack 6.4x stronger than him and cutting through him. He’s done.
Click to expand...
Based on what? Luffy's Buso was able to block a cutting/piercing attack that was 4x stronger than him with nothing more than coughing blood. Kaidou who has stronger Haki than him will not get cut through. He will be cut definitely, but not taken out.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Spamming thunder bagua majority of the time is not dodging speed. It’s attack speeds.
Click to expand...
it's still overall movement combined with attack speed still, so that doesn't matter

He has dodged something while using it
 
Kachon123 said:
Lmfao. Why are you ignoring my message.
Click to expand...

Just because I didn’t see it doesn’t mean I’m ignoring it. I am literally responding to 2-3 people on mobile in the middle of the night. So I’m sorry if I didn’t see a little message claiming I’m ignoring you saying what is clearly not the case.

Thunder bagua is an attack. You mentioned it many times in reference to its speed. That’s attack speed. Asta matches with his skill set against speed blitzes, speed amps, AD, to land the spammable Zetten.

Tomorrow. Bye.
 
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