Asta vs Kaidou

[Kachon123]

And where exactly did I ignore that? I am saying, from the very very start, that Kenbu's amp is unquantifiable, it doesn't scale to thousands of times because of Aisa, or because of Luffy, or whatever.

Drag, absolutely no one is trying to quantify Kenbun's amp. We're giving these examples of where it has been shown to bridge insane gaps so simply say that it's a huge amp, in the say way folks are saying for Ki or Zetten.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

And where exactly did I ignore that? I am saying, from the very very start, that Kenbu's amp is unquantifiable, it doesn't scale to thousands of times because of Aisa, or because of Luffy, or whatever.

Asia's kenbu's amp scales unquantifiable above lightning speed with initial observation haki and Kaido is < with adv observation haki

Bro who cares about what you're talking about? My first posts were for Kachon, then you started to bring a lot of related shit to what I was talking about alongside missing or just straight up ignoring the entire explanation I provided about the point I was making before you even replied to me.

With kachon you were spreading misinformation about observation haki and named feats where they got "blitzed" even tho they still was able to react and precieve

Luffy and other Kenbu users in the series have without a doubt been blitzed by things not even close to being 2000x faster than them

You literally said this with no proof at all unless your talking about their movement speed and not about observation haki

Am I being accused of gas lighting now? Like, for real?

Also no... stop, simply wondering why you're behaving that way by saying that only my view was the problem

I have serious doubts if the problem is coming from my English or the reading comprehension of the other side

 

[XDragnoir]

Drag, absolutely no one is trying to quantify Kenbun's amp. We're giving these examples of where it has been shown to bridge insane gaps so simply say that it's a huge amp, in the say way folks are saying for Ki or Zetten.

With Kenbu? Maybe that was the case and I misunderstood you, but you straight up claimed that Luffy had 4x durability with Buso, and therefore the same 4x would apply to Kaido:

"Based on what? Luffy's Buso was able to block a cutting/piercing attack that was 4x stronger than him with nothing more than coughing blood. Kaidou who has stronger Haki than him will not get cut through"

(The above was in response to a 6,4x gap from Asta, btw) The kind of logic used in the bolded part is what I've been explaining isn't valid (in case there's still some doubt about it).

As for the Kenbu part:

"This is a Luffy 1000 chapters removed from the version of himself that through sheer instinctive reactions could defend against not just a normal speed blitz, but someone who at the time was 2596.8x faster than him. Kaidou is able to blitz this dude consistently over, and over, and over, and over again, just with his Baguas."

Like, call me crazy if you want, but this screams "Luffy can react to 2596x faster opponents but can't react to Kaido!" to me, in case I really got this part wrong I apologize, but I hope you can see where my concern was coming from.

Asia's kenbu's amp scales unquantifiable above lightning speed with initial observation haki and Kaido is < with adv observation haki

Yeah bro, Kaido is FTL+, we know he scales above lightning speed with Kenbu, this much didn't add anything.

With kachon you were spreading misinformation about observation haki and named feats where they got "blitzed" even tho they still was able to react and precieve

Okay, let me ask this simple question, do you know what "react" means? I am not asking you about the dictionary definition, I am asking if you know what "react" or in other words what a "reaction" is in the context of this forum, to quote our speed page:

"Reaction speed is the speed at which a character can react to an event or action. This usually only grants a short movement upon reaction, whereas several movements at the same speed switch it to combat speed. For example, let's say that character A shoots at character B with a gun and character B dodges. That is reaction speed."

If a character didn't dodge, block or do anything at all against an incoming attack they were in fact unable to react and therefore blitzed.

The funniest part is that you're accusing me of spreading misinformation, so can you explain why the feats I named (Sanji blitzing Oven, Kaido blitzing Kinemon with TB, G4 Luffy blitzing Doflamingo and Zoro blitzing Apoo) are indexed as being blitzes in the profiles? Literally the 4 feats are indexed as "blitzed" or "speedblitzed", how am I spreading misinformation if I am using what the damn profiles themselves say?

You literally said this with no proof at all unless your talking about their movement speed and not about observation haki

Bro who cares if their Kenbu gets blitzed if their body can't keep up to even try defending? And if you want a Kenbu-blitz, Sanji blitzed Queen's Kenbu as did Kaido vs Luffy in Udon (although in this case there's a speed gap of 20x).

Also no... stop, simply wondering why you're behaving that way by saying that only my view was the problem

Sure, my bad on that end.

 

[Kachon123]

With Kenbu? Maybe that was the case and I misunderstood you, but you straight up claimed that Luffy had 4x durability with Buso, and therefore the same 4x would apply to Kaido:

"Based on what? Luffy's Buso was able to block a cutting/piercing attack that was 4x stronger than him with nothing more than coughing blood. Kaidou who has stronger Haki than him will not get cut through"

(The above was in response to a 6,4x gap from Asta, btw) The kind of logic used in the bolded part is what I've been explaining isn't valid (in case there's still some doubt about it).

Lmao no. I said that because Luffy's Buso showed piercing resistance enough to withstand piercing attacks far above his AP (4x), Kaidou should be able to withstand some of Asta's attacks. I never once tried to apply a multiplier.

As for the Kenbu part:

"This is a Luffy 1000 chapters removed from the version of himself that through sheer instinctive reactions could defend against not just a normal speed blitz, but someone who at the time was 2596.8x faster than him. Kaidou is able to blitz this dude consistently over, and over, and over, and over again, just with his Baguas."

Like, call me crazy if you want, but this screams "Luffy can react to 2596x faster opponents but can't react to Kaido!" to me, in case I really got this part wrong I apologize, but I hope you can see where my concern was coming from.

I don't see where your concern is coming from because if anything this just proves that you weren't even looking at the context of where I said that. Arnold said that Asta's raw instinct allow him to dodge attacks far faster than himself, and I cited Luffy who was able to do similar things with Kaidou still being able to easily blitz him.

You looking at the numbers and not the actual arguments seem like a common trend. If you want to be taken seriously, at least make the effort of actually reading what people are saying. That's why I didn't even respond at first.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Okay, let me ask this simple question, do you know what "react" means? I am not asking you about the dictionary definition, I am asking if you know what "react" or in other words what a "reaction" is in the context of this forum, to quote our speed page:

"Reaction speed is the speed at which a character can react to an event or action. This usually only grants a short movement upon reaction, whereas several movements at the same speed switch it to combat speed. For example, let's say that character A shoots at character B with a gun and character B dodges. That is reaction speed."

If a character didn't dodge, block or do anything at all against an incoming attack they were in fact unable to react and therefore blitzed.

That's Reaction Speed which I wasn't talking about... Characters can still react to something and be movement blitzed

Bro who cares if their Kenbu gets blitzed if their body can't keep up to even try defending? And if you want a Kenbu-blitz, Sanji blitzed Queen's Kenbu as did Kaido vs Luffy in Udon (although in this case there's a speed gap of 20x).

Sanji's blitzed queen not his obs haki... making sanji basically invisible while also being out of his sight, we don't even see queen use observation

Also you talking about this vs kaido? That's a movement speed blitz, luffy even reacts bottom left before he does it

Sure, my bad on that end.

Yeah bro, Kaido is FTL+, we know he scales above lightning speed with Kenbu, this much didn't add anything.

A normal kid by just using obs Haki is able to react to lightning speed... I'm talking about it's Amp, not the speed of what it has reacted to

強力な〝心綱〟の持ち主で、その優れた察知力はシャンディアの戦士達も頼りにするほど。サバイバルでは、共に行動したルフィを的確にエネルの居場所へと導いた。
She possesses a powerful “heart rope,” and even the warriors of Chandia rely on her excellent sensory perception. In the survival battle, she guided Luffy, who was working with her, to the exact location of Enel.

 

[Kircdaaa]

didnt realize how broken shuron hakke kaido was untill now i wonder how the g5 fight would've went if he was still in that mode

 

[Kachon123]

didnt realize how broken shuron hakke kaido was untill now i wonder how the g5 fight would've went if he was still in that mode

Shuron Hakke is an amp as well as a fighting style. The stat boosts granted from Shuron Hakke remains even after he sobers up, but since he isn't drunk anymore he can't access specific fighting styles like "Homicidal Drunk" or "Thieving Drunk"

 

[Kircdaaa]

Shuron Hakke is an amp as well as a fighting style. The stat boosts granted from Shuron Hakke remains even after he sobers up, but since he isn't drunk anymore he can't access specific fighting styles like "Homicidal Drunk" or "Thieving Drunk"

what i mean is that he would just keep on getting stronger in dura,speed,haki,strength in that mode wondering how the fght g5 would've went if he was goin into that mode multiple times over

 

[Idkwhyimhere3]

Kaido cant do anything to Zetten, Asta takes it FRA.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

 

[Xinsignia1]

Asta has resistance to precog since his future can't be read (and that resistance in independent of anti-magic).

He also has resistance to information analysis due to assimilating Kiato's technique. So they should both counter future sight.

Asta however would still be able to predict Kaido's movements with ki. He would also have the advantage of foresight, the resistance to the enemy's foresight and the boost from zetten.

 

[Robo432343]

Asta has a 6.6x AP advantage for Low 5-B and a 5.3x for 5-C

 

[Robo432343]

bump

 

[Xinsignia1]

Future Sight

Future sight wouldn't work on Asta based on his resistance to it. It was also stated Asta's future can't be read, and that resistance originated from Asta, not anti-magic since Lucius couldn't even foresee his birth like he did Yuno's.

Asta's future couldn't be seen by Lucius’s precog, or the witch queens divination.

and Shuron Hakke.

Asta's mastery of ki has drastically improved. Moreover his resistance to precog is further layered since he has resistance to information analysis due to he assimilating Kiato's technique which makes his movements unpredictable.

 

[Kidkinsey]

Could his future being unable to be read be more of a fate manip thing?

 

[Robo432343]

it can be both icl