Ash Ketchum vs Lucy Heartfilia

[Mickey1940]

There's so many 9B Ash fights, so why not add a High 7A one for him?

Rules:

Gen 8 Ash vs 100 Years Quest Lucy

Lucy has access to all of her spirits as of 100 Years Quest

Ash has Pikachu, Charizard, Greninja, Sceptile, Infernape, and Gengar

4B Pokemon and Z-Moves are restricted

Gigantamax Pikachu is restricted

Ash-Greninja is not restricted

Dynamax is not restricted (except for Ash-Greninja)

Star Dress Mix is restricted

Standard Pokemon battling rules don't apply, meaning Ash and Lucy can both fight and be attacked. However, Ash can only use 2 Pokemon at a time

Win only when the entire opposing team is knocked out or killed

Speed equalized

1 Day Prep

Who wins?


Ash's Pokemon's AP: At least double of 790 ish megatons: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:M3X/Pokémon:_Charizard_melting_mountains, Higher with Ash-Greninja

Lucy's AP: Far stronger than 2.02 Gigatons: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Captain_Torch/Ikusatsunagi's_Slash_REVISION


Ash:

Lucy:

Incon:

 

[Mickey1940]

bump

 

[Arceus0x]

ash's pokemon are hella powerful, pikachu approaching island level by himself. I think ash takes this via the large amount of powerful pokemon at his disposal. The only thing lucy could arguably have that can help her is time manip which idek how it works and it doesn't seem applicble to combat. I think the sheer power of his pokemon would simply overwhelm lucy, especially ash-greninja and pikachu. He should also have haxxy pokemon on his team but idk which ones could we use.

 

[Mickey1940]

ash's pokemon are hella powerful, pikachu approaching island level by himself. I think ash takes this via the large amount of powerful pokemon at his disposal. The only thing lucy could arguably have that can help her is time manip which idek how it works and it doesn't seem applicble to combat. I think the sheer power of his pokemon would simply overwhelm lucy, especially ash-greninja and pikachu. He should also have haxxy pokemon on his team but idk which ones could we use.

Both are borderline 6C, so I thought this was fair

 

[Zackra1799]

What's stopping Lucy from KOing Ash, then Making a copy of Ash with Gemini to convince the Pokemon to surrender?

Edit: Or she could just force them back into their pokeballs.

 

[Mickey1940]

also Gemini exists

 

[Arceus0x]

What's stopping Lucy from KOing Ash, then Making a copy of Ash with Gemini to convince the Pokemon to surrender?
Edit: Or she could just force them back into their pokeballs.

Ash has a very close bond with his pokemon and despite it sounding weird, his pokemon would easily realize that that is not their ash, similarily to how ash realized it ain't his pikachu despite ditto turning into a perfect copy of him. They would be confused at first but pikachu would most likely see through a trick like that and proceed to tell the rest of the team.

 

[Mickey1940]

What's stopping Lucy from KOing Ash, then Making a copy of Ash with Gemini to convince the Pokemon to surrender?
Edit: Or she could just force them back into their pokeballs.

that won't work fra

 

[Mickey1940]

Can someone help me make a list of Ash's strongest pokemon that fit the fight rules?

 

[Arceus0x]

Can someone help me make a list of Ash's strongest pokemon that fit the fight rules?

i want to give ash an advantage so ill give him a good team by the vsbattles standarts.

Pikachu, greninja, charizard, sceptile, Gengar and...infernape?

i added gengar cause he should have good hax.

 

[Zackra1799]

But gemini would also create a perfect copy of the pokeballs so they could be easily returned to them and incapacitated that way.

Edit: I also doubt that friendship would work to resist commands to the Pokemon from gemini as lucy's Celestial spirts were forced into doing what copy Lucy said even tho it was against their and original Lucy's will.

 

[Mickey1940]

Can someone help me make a list of Ash's strongest pokemon that fit the fight rules?

i want to give ash an advantage so ill give him a good team by the vsbattles standarts.
Pikachu, greninja, charizard, sceptile, Gengar and...infernape?

i added gengar cause he should have good hax.

I was thinking the same thing but I had Incineroar instead of Gengar

I didn't watch Gen 8, but Gengar is one of his newer Pokemon, so I doubt it is as strong as his others. Incineroar, on the other hand, is as strong as fully evolved Pokemon even as a Torracat

 

[Arceus0x]

Can someone help me make a list of Ash's strongest pokemon that fit the fight rules?

i want to give ash an advantage so ill give him a good team by the vsbattles standarts.
Pikachu, greninja, charizard, sceptile, Gengar and...infernape?

i added gengar cause he should have good hax.

I was thinking the same thing but I had Incineroar instead of Gengar
I didn't watch Gen 8, but Gengar is one of his newer Pokemon, so I doubt it is as strong as his others. Incineroar, on the other hand, is as strong as fully evolved Pokemon even as a Torracat

gengar overpowered two duskclopses with one attack which were giving notable trouble to pikachu. the other reason i wanna give him gengar is the sheer amount of hax he has. By VSbattles standarts he is a very useful combatant.

 

[Mickey1940]

ah ok

 

[Arceus0x]

But gemini would also create a perfect copy of the pokeballs so they could be easily returned to them and incapacitated that way.
Edit: I also doubt that friendship would work to resist commands to the Pokemon from gemini as lucy's Celestial spirts were forced into doing what copy Lucy said even tho it was against their and original Lucy's will.

pokemon are not celestial spirits. they are not bound to ash in any way except emotional. Ash proved himself a worthy trainer to them and so they let him catch them. There are LOADS of instances where the pokemon didn't do what the trainer told them, that literally the reason ash lost the indigo league. And also, pokemon ain't dumb. Most have pretty much at the very least child-like intelligence, they would notice sth wrong right away. turning into a pokeball is... questionable. They are far more likely to turn into a copy of one of the pokemon and get stomped by pikachu or sth. Also, turning into a pokeball doesn't exactly help.

1. A captured pokemon cannot get caught again

2. If i remember correctly you can actually dodge getting returned to a pokeball (that is why if a pokemon gets lost in any episode they always end up having to search for them instead of clicking the pokeball. There is also an episode where meowth was trying to catch pikachu but kept failing. the only time a captured pokemon could get caught was when mewtwo made special pokeballs that could even capture the pokemon while inside their pokeball)

3. There is nothing preventing from let's say, gengar from sneaking up (via intangibility and invicibility) on lucy and haxxing her

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

What's stopping Lucy from KOing Ash, then Making a copy of Ash with Gemini to convince the Pokemon to surrender?

Edit: Or she could just force them back into their pokeballs.

Ash has the durability to take Lucy's stuff. Dude very much scales to his mons in dura.

Ash wins. His Pokémon are much more versatile than Lucy's, even though she has more. Ash isn't limited to magic power, so he can interchange between his Pokémon at will. Finally, he has aura on his side. Lucy's biggest advantage is that she's a better fighter than Ash, but he's far more experienced than her, and is smarter, despite the fact that nobody gives him credit for his intellect. The biggest threat is Aquarius, but ironically, that's the one she lost access to. Zard's flight and Pika's paralysis should be enough on their own.

 

[Mickey1940]

1. Ash has 8C durability what are you talking about

2. Lucy still has Aquarious's Star Dress

3. Since prep exists, Lucy can abuse Pokemon weaknesses (except maybe agianst Sceptile). Lucy's Aquarius form alone can deal with Ash's whole team except for Sceptile and Greninja due to Water and Earth Manipulation. Capricorn or Tauros can deal with Greninja due to being "Fighting types". Tauros negs Charizard due to being a "Rock type" (this can be debated but he seems to be a rock type due to massive strength and Earth Wave looking like a Rock Type move"). Maybe Cancer could help Lucy against Sceptile cause air slashes, but that's also up for debate.

 

[Arceus0x]

What's stopping Lucy from KOing Ash, then Making a copy of Ash with Gemini to convince the Pokemon to surrender?

Edit: Or she could just force them back into their pokeballs.

Ash has the durability to take Lucy's stuff. Dude very much scales to his mons in dura.

Ash wins. His Pokémon are much more versatile than Lucy's, even though she has more. Ash isn't limited to magic power, so he can interchange between his Pokémon at will. Finally, he has aura on his side. Lucy's biggest advantage is that she's a better fighter than Ash, but he's far more experienced than her, and is smarter, despite the fact that nobody gives him credit for his intellect. The biggest threat is Aquarius, but ironically, that's the one she lost access to. Zard's flight and Pika's paralysis should be enough on their own.

aquarius would get whooped by pikachu and sceptile anyways

 

[Davidsteel1]

I don't think applying Pokémon rules to a verse that doesn't function under Pokémon rules makes much sense

 

[Zackra1799]

@Arceus0x

No, by turning into Ash, Gemini creates a perfect copy of the individual including their stats, knowledge, and any Equipment that includes even 1 of a kind things such as celestial spirit keys. So she would have perfect copies of all the pokeballs that already caught the pokemon (and possibly the pokemon too as they reside in the pokeballs which would be very bad for Ash) so returning them to their balls is a perfectly viable option.

They get sent to the pokeball via a beam of energy, so it logically makes sense that you need line of sight to return them. And Pikachu isn't a valid example because he actively avoids being put into his pokeball and would be a feat for pikachu and not every pokemon ever.

 

[Mickey1940]

I don't think applying Pokémon rules to a verse that doesn't function under Pokémon rules makes much sense

Verse equalization says otherwise

Besides, their weaknesses are elemental based. That's not restricted by Pokemon rules

 

[Mickey1940]

@Arceus0x
No, by turning into Ash, Gemini creates a perfect copy of the individual including their stats, knowledge, and any Equipment that includes even 1 of a kind things such as celestial spirit keys. So she would have perfect copies of all the pokeballs that already caught the pokemon (and possibly the pokemon too as they reside in the pokeballs which would be very bad for Ash) so returning them to their balls is a perfectly viable option.

They get sent to the pokeball via a beam of energy, so it logically makes sense that you need line of sight to return them. And Pikachu isn't a valid example because he actively avoids being put into his pokeball and would be a feat for pikachu and not every pokemon ever.

also once she copies Ash she'll have everything she needs to know about his Pokemon due to Info manip

 

[Pepper14832]

Lucy has her spirts fight the pokemon while she beats up Ash

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

In which Lucy has a hard time doing due to Ash's stone wall status and aura. Pokémon trainers, specifically the anime and manga ones, were supposed to have their durability scaled from their mons aeons ago.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Arceus0x

No, by turning into Ash, Gemini creates a perfect copy of the individual including their stats, knowledge, and any Equipment that includes even 1 of a kind things such as celestial spirit keys. So she would have perfect copies of all the pokeballs that already caught the pokemon (and possibly the pokemon too as they reside in the pokeballs which would be very bad for Ash) so returning them to their balls is a perfectly viable option.

They get sent to the pokeball via a beam of energy, so it logically makes sense that you need line of sight to return them. And Pikachu isn't a valid example because he actively avoids being put into his pokeball and would be a feat for pikachu and not every pokemon ever.

Ash has dealt with clones from a vastly more powerful threat, with a weaker and more disobedient team at that. Given Gemini can't clone themselves, there's no threat of a whole 6 on 6. Pokémon don't have to stay in their balls, as seen by Misty's Psyduck and Jessie's Wobbuffet, and the time Ash's entire team left their Pokeballs to keep him from freezing to death, so if Gemini turns into Ash, Gemini just becomes a liability, as it's a waste of a summon. If she turns into a Pokémon, you'd have to take into account that Pika has fought a champion level Ditto before and won, and Zard has been fighting other Charizards since Johto. And again, Lucy has to worry about stamina. Ash doesn't. Even Ash-Greninja's drawback only knocks him back when Greninja faints now. While Lucy can only use 3 before she's winded, unless they summon themselves. Loke is the only offensive threat, as Zard manhandles the rest as their weapons are made out of metal (which means no Taurus or Cancer), or are earth based (which means no Virgo or Scorpio). Their versatility also sucks compared to the mons. And while Urano Metria is on the table, that leave a wide opening for Pika to OHKO with a Gigavolt Havoc.

Oh and Sceptile and Infernape are there too. They'd probably take down Loke if Zard doesn't, given again, Loke is easily the biggest threat.

Btw I'd take Lycanroc over Gengar. Gengar solos due to innate Gengar hax.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Verse equalization says otherwise

Besides, their weaknesses are elemental based. That's not restricted by Pokemon rules

Verse equalization would not make Aquarius weak to Electric or Grass abilities which is what David is talking about.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

My boi Dragon's right. However Sceptile would still be able to no-sell getting swamped. If Aquarius wasn't banned b/c canon.

 

[Mickey1940]

@the real cat howard

1. Read the rules. Ash can only have 2 pokemon fighting at a time. Obviously if Ash let loose all 6 he would stomp, so I made it a little more fair

2. Ash's durability shouldn't scale to his Pokemon cause he's been hurt by far weaker blows (like Riolu's Aura Sphere)

3. Gengar gets negged by Aquarius or Scorpio due to Earth Manipulation. Although Gengar has Levitate, he can still be hurt if hit by a ground type move (as shown when Ring Target or Smack Down grounds levitating pokemon, plus Lucy has MASSIVE AOE attacks like Aqua Metria). Plus idk if intangibility works cause Pokemon on this wiki don't have Non-Physical Interaction yet many can still kill Gengar with Ground-type moves (if it lands)

4. As seen in the Alvarez arc, she can use multiple star dresses consecutively (Tauros, Scorpio, Cancer, and Aquarius respectively), and the only reason why she was tired was cause of previous injuries and the fact that Brandish was whupping her ass the entire fight, and over a year has passed since then. So stamina isn't much of an issue anymore

5. The reason why Gemini transforming into Ash is a viable strategy is because despite prep, there's only so much someone can know about someone else in just 1 day. With Gemini, she can learn a helluva lot of stuff about his Pokemon. I agree that re-capturing Ash's Pokemon back into Pokeballs is fishy, but turning into Ash is sill smart, plus they can always drop the transformation afterwards. Plus with Star Dress Lucy herself could probably turn into Ash, drop the transformation, and still retain all of Ash's knowledge and strategies

 

[Mickey1940]

Verse equalization says otherwise
Besides, their weaknesses are elemental based. That's not restricted by Pokemon rules

Verse equalization would not make Aquarius weak to Electric or Grass abilities which is what David is talking about.
I know

But I'm pretty sure it DOES make the Spirit's elemental attacks strong against the Pokemon's

 

[Arceus0x]

@the real cat howard
1. Read the rules. Ash can only have 2 pokemon fighting at a time. Obviously if Ash let loose all 6 he would stomp, so I made it a little more fair

2. Ash's durability shouldn't scale to his Pokemon cause he's been hurt by far weaker blows (like Riolu's Aura Sphere)

not sure if that kind of equalization without any cannonical reasoning is allowed chief. It's either all out or nothing.

Riolu's aura sphere didn't even leave a scartch on him, he literally just got pushed back (not to mention that was a vaccume wave)

 

[ShiverPointGaming_101]

Im pretty sure team lucy takes this

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

You can limit the amount of summons a summoner can use. This is true for all Tamers or Trainers.

 

[Mickey1940]

bump

 

[Mickey1940]

bump

 

[Mickey1940]

I forgot this existed
welp bump

 

[Mickey1940]

bump