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Archie Sonic revisions that should have gone through a year ago.

Wait a minute, how we supposed to go about this thread? If Foney thinks he is "Near certainty he is in the right", does that mean he's not open to counter discussion?

Which then, I'd be pretty pissed because I've been spending a lot of energy here.
 
Foneybone1 said:
Why would I make this thread if I didn't think I was right?
Click to expand...
Just found it interesting, but thinking you are right means that you are not going to be open to anyone against it, just said it was bold, didn't think we could find you complaining about the people you are debating behind them?
 
Or maybe Foney is certain that the evidence that he has presented is enough justification and any attempt to refute his claims have been met with a rebuttal. I'm not choosing sides but this seems like a proper debate and honestly you both make good points.
 
Did you both just completely miss the point of that post? I asked for others to critique this thread. I literally say I wasn't trying to reafirm my opinion. I was opening it up to discussion. I literally say the comunity's adamance made me question. It's probably the least bold post I could have made.
 
Yeah I mean literally the link of the reddit post is titled "Am I crazy about Archie Sonic or " in other words "Am I wrong or am I right."
 
No need to be defensive, never attacked him, just found it interesting, not everything is a attack that you must defend, especialy since you all would never defender him normally If your interests didn't align
 
I just came to that conclusion. Foney and I have been Discussing this on various threads. Mostly because a power is being brought up, Foney express that it's not right, I counter, he disagrees and we go back and forth.

I'm potentially getting mad because I'm starting get frustrated with repeating myself when it comes to the resistance to EE.
 
But what's keeping someone from coming to the same conclusion about you? Assumedly, you also think you're right, and I feel like I've mostly been repeating what I said in the OP.
 
Is the poisoning the well done? Everyone knows what side I'm for, but let's remain civil and not hold any grudges no matter how this winds up.

Personally I feel like the sheer fact that a Sonic struggles at all means that there's no fatehax in play, and at the very very best, Sonic's immortality only extends to EE, as many many characters have nearly beaten him to death. Like, my guess is that even in the best case scenario, the super hax on the profiles takes so full at instances and applies them throughout the series despite if it's inconsistent or ruins the setting. Main character being functionally immortal and unbeatable even without the CEs raises those red flags.
 
There is the problem of having such a large CRT, as new people to the conversation can basically agreed with everything the OP has stated, which covers a lot, with having no issue with any counter arguments that was made against the OP.

If we are to move forward, we need to make an agreement that we can't move on from the topic until it's finished being discussed and unified agreement of that particular topic is done. However long it takes.
 
I mean I spent quite a bit of time reading and to be honest I agree with most if not all of what Foney and others said. I don't believe you guys will ever agree on this.

But I agree with you it could've been better organised.
 
Perhaps we should make a new thread for each of the topics and then link it back to this thread as the main. That would be easier to organize.
 
Well, it's hard for anyone to argue against it considering there doesn't seem to be a good place to start the counter arguements. Currently, I am jumping around from topic to topic right now. Even if I did win an argument 1 of the many, many points, I have it on good belief that people will probably ignored/miss it among the sea of texts and I would essentially be wasting my time.
 
My intention was to request staff to evaluate after discusion had either been settled (or potentially reatched a standstill) Do you think I should do that now, or we continue for the time being?

On that note, I wanted to make sure I contacted all relevant staff, are Executor, Dark649, Medeus, and Sera the only ones or am I missing any?
 
Yes, making a format where people can have an easier time creating counter arguments.
 
Foneybone1 said:
My intention was to request staff to evaluate after discusion had either been settled (or potentially reatched a standstill) Do you think I should do that now, or we continue for the time being?

On that note, I wanted to make sure I contacted all relevant staff, are Executor, Dark649, Medeus, and Sera the only ones or am I missing any?
Click to expand...
I kinda just dropped all hax from my initial post and focused on Tiering after it, so I haven't had a chance ti debate on any of that yet apart from the initial post.

Executor is fine, Dark649 is inactive, Medeus has no knowledge or context on Archie, and Sera wants nothing to do with Sonic.
 
The real cal howard said:
Personally I feel like the sheer fact that a Sonic struggles at all means that there's no fatehax in play, and at the very very best, Sonic's immortality only extends to EE, as many many characters have nearly beaten him to death. Like, my guess is that even in the best case scenario, the super hax on the profiles takes so full at instances and applies them throughout the series despite if it's inconsistent or ruins the setting. Main character being functionally immortal and unbeatable even without the CEs raises those red flags.
Click to expand...
Can you not remain consistent on how you talk about Fatehax? You complain about it ruining the tension, but since there is tension that means no Fatehax? Stop shifting stances on why there isn't Fatehax. Either because you don't like it, or because there isn't. Pick one.
 
Theuser789 said:
Oh look, that's exactaly what I said in the start about the multiple topics, look at that
Click to expand...
Why do you insist on complaining how long the OP is when I got approval for it to be this long?

You do know splitting it up won't reduce the amount you'll have to read and respond to right?
 
Not the amount but how we tackle the topics.

Whoever approved of the lengthy OP wasn't taking into consideration for the counter arguments.
 
I know who approved, and I know he didn't care about people responding because he also wants this to go through, the long OP only helps the people who want the downgrade so their characters can win better, don't kid yourself, they see big words and agree while the people who know have to reply to multiple topics, which they complained
 
Executor is fine, Dark649 is inactive, Medeus has no knowledge or context on Archie, and Sera wants nothing to do with Sonic.

Is that all? Would Elizhaa and TISSG7Redgrave be worth contacting since they're listed as supporters? (l just thought to check that) Would I need to contact just other staff later, considering Celestial Pegasus approved the Low 2C upgrade and, from what I can tell, isn't a supporter.
 
I didn't want staff involved until we reached a conclusion amongst ourselves, because the it comes down to "I agree/disagree for *user here*'s reasons". I apologize that I've been taking so long if that's the main reason, I know it's likely annoying. College, amirite? I'll try to respond to AP soon. Then, after we're done with that, we can go back to everything else we left behind. Sorry once again lol

That said, there aren't many people knowledgeable on Archie. I'd say Executor is the best bet, but someone like Celestial Pegasus and Redgrave would be fine too.
 
I wasn't planning on contacting staff directly until more of a consensus was reached, I wanted to make sure I contacted the right people.

Mephelis non canon? kek
 
The events of Sonic 06 in Archie is non canon but I'll get to it with proof after we clear up the misconception of Silver's future having a "Sonic death" even happened in the thread above.
 
ElixirBlue said:
The events of Sonic 06 in Archie is non canon but I'll get to it with proof after we clear up the misconception of Silver's future having a "Sonic death" even happened in the thread above.
Click to expand...
In that case remove immeasurable because Solaris is the only reason they're that speed.
 
I thought immeasurable speed came from SonicMan casually speeding through the Time Stopper's abilities.
 
In that case remove immeasurable because Solaris is the only reason they're that speed.

How many times am I gonna have to teach you this lesson, old man?
 
I'll just make a quick response.

Naugus

Sonic needs to match Naugus' hax to match his tier? Basic VSBW rules completely tear those thoughts apart, that doesn't even make much sense. Hax generally doesn't scale to AP, so I'm not sure what you're really arguing for. Am I misunderstanding what you're trying to say? Also, this doesn't change the fact that Bunnie literally knocked out Naugus with a punch. Who Sonic is comparable to.

Why would he need to create another environment that empowers him when he already has one in the Zone of Silence? The fact that he created the Zone of Silence in the first place makes him Low 2-C.

Feist

It doesn't really matter. Being taken by surprise doesn't automatically make a fly able to hurt you and make you stagger back from weaponry. Omega blasts him once and they make their escape. There was no fight showing Feist stomping them, and no confrontation after.

Mogul

I've already done my best to explain why it's an inconsistency for that to happen.

You still have failed to mention how Mogul being weaker would make him literally infinitely weaker. He'd be Low 2-C regardless, and Sonic and co. would downscale from him even if it was legitimate. Additionally, if Mogul is stronger than Naugus, that solidifies the rating due to the ZoS business.

Al and Cal

Are you arguing that because it inhibits Scourge's speed, it inhibits physicality? Because I'm sure that Sonic's speed is treated as an innate ability rather than just him moving really fast because he physically can, and Scourge is nigh-identical to him. And many characters we see are either unknown to determine if they have hax or not or because they do have hax despite how minor it is. Correct me if you can find an example.

What? Assuming their robotic forms are stronger than their regular forms is an unfounded assumption. Why, because they look different or are fighting each other while in them? That doesn't prove anything, amd they've already been shown to have control over their zone as their normal selves.

There's what the story dictates and what the feats show. If the feats consistently display them at that level, but the story says they're far weaker, the feats take precedence over what the story wants it to be taken as. Lemme play devil's advocate and ask what you mean by the characters being difficult to kill. What, we bring them back to Tier 4 and give them Tier 2 stonewall durability? I'm genuinely curious as to what you're suggesting.
 
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