Sorry this is so long, I'm combining my response to both comments into one.
Reply to the comment with several scans:
1. A. Sonic is trying to break free of her grip the entire time. Regardless, you're missing the point, he fails to save his girlfriend and gets kicked off the Death Egg against his will, and you're trying to say he didn't lose because he didn't fight back.
B. Sonic eventually winning is not established, it's an excuse to dismiss counterevidence. Nothing in Mogul or Eggman's dialogue implies they can defeat Sonic at all, even temporarily. Sonic also doesn't eventually win in this instance, he never saves Sally, and in at least one of Silver's pasts, Sally ends up killing him. (it's actually implied to be all of them, but that detail is neither here nor there)
2. What did I say that made you think I think Sonic can control his fate hax? I'm not saying Sonic is actively using fate hax to do what he wants, I'm saying, if the fate hax is real, it should make things he wants to happen happen, there's no reason for it to be restricted to combat.
You arguing that Sonic has to actively want to win in order for the fate hax to work comes closer to saying Sonic controls it than anything I said. It also comes back around to: if Sonic will win a fight no matter what because he wants to, then why can't he save people even if he actively tries to save them just because they "want" to die?
3. The way Sonic and Eggman use beat, defeat, victory, and so on is not problematic for me. It's perfectly consitant with what I say in the OP: Sonic doesn't have fate hax and can lose, and Eggman, in his madness, creates a meta excuse for why he can't beat Sonic, even contradicting himself like you showed. He's crazy and is making excuses, but stops once he gets the win he needed.
Reply to the comment with two scans:
How is it nitpicking for me to directly respond to your point with relevant counterexamples? Like Cal said, fate hax don't have a sense of dramatic writing, either it works or it doesn't. If Sonic has a power to always win and he doesn't always win, that's not the power letting tension happen, that's evidence that maybe Sonic doesn't actually have that power. Especially when the two statements about that power are full of holes.
He didn't lose Sally? Did we read the same comic? Sally was turned into a weapon for Eggman, you can't downplay that to just being seperated.
The fate hax are cited as rewriting reality (actually the ring aura, but whatever) to help Sonic, and based on Eggman's dialogue, there's no reason the fate hax would only help in combat.
What makes you think Sonic's holding back when he says himself he can't pull his punches?
Listing events doesn't mean Sonic wasn't trying to get Sally back, you're kidding yourself if you think he wasn't. Silver incapacitating Sally is not the same as Sonic saving her, especially given that couldn't have happened in the timelines before Silver came.
If the fate hax doesn't work when someone chooses to do something else, how does it work at all? Sonic's enemies don't choose to lose. Others helping Sonic achieve unlikely victory is the cornerstone of the plot convenience that fuels his fate hax. How many times has Sonic only won due to help from others? The fate hax needs to be able to affect others for it to function the way it's claimed to. It makes no sense for it to work against Sonic's enemies but not help his allies. Characters sacrificing themself shouldn't matter any more than Sonic's opponents not wanting to lose.
I don't know what those scans are supposed to prove. Everyone tries to fight Scourge at first, but Sonic doesn't fight to defeat him, and he doesn't fight back or plan anything against Mogul, he's knocked out.
I'm "harping" on his loss in 231 because you're pretending he didn't lose. It doesn't matter if you think Eggman won anything, it doesn't even matter if I think Eggman won anything, what matters is Eggman thinks he won one over Sonic, which he rightfully does. From Eggman's perspective, he has only gained in 225-231's events (he does literally
lose the Chaos Emerald, but he
doesn't consider that a
loss) and you're trying to say he lost just because his original plan didn't work the way he planned. Eggman failed his original plan but still got something in the form of Mecha Sally, hence her being a consolation prize, but he's still the only one who gained anything from the ordeal. He took Sally away from the Freedom Fighters, from Sonic; I don't know what to tell you if you don't consider that a loss.
In your first Smash analogy, someone SDs all their stocks, that doesn't mean they didn't lose, they're still the loser on the result screen. According to your second, Sonic and Eggman have never lost nor won before because "the game" is still going, and like I've said, Sonic has lost "the game" 3 times, hence Silver.
