- 4,187
- 1,484
Bullshit
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Arceus, and the Crown of Lies
- Thread starter Udlmaster
- Start date
- Status
- 1,626
- 148
Wait hol up.... Does that mean we can make a Mystery Dungeon Yveltal profile and have a reason to not count the feat as an outlier?!
- 6,605
- 4,155
- 1,626
- 148
Goddammit
- 6,605
- 4,155
That's just a flat out lie.
The current CRT on canon isn't yet accepted, and even then MD being canon is on the "no" side. Except if you're talking of the thread with "lol link cables", which would actually be a proof of the opposite + never got resolved.
Also we litteraly separate Primal Dialga from his canon self.
Udlmaster
They/Them- 6,909
- 2,114
- Thread starter
- #49
By the way, for the "Not AP thou" arguments.
Like stated above, Dark Matter themselves was stated that he would have thrown Creation into the Void.
And the End-game of it shows Xerneas, the counterpart and Equal to Yveltol who is the Tree of Life.
What's the Tree of Life? Well, the Tree of Life the source of Vitality and the Foundation all Living Things.
The destruction of the Tree of Life and Dark Matter possessing it, is what enables him to threaten all of Creation and Yeet Arceus.
And finally, prior to his ascension after the death of the Tree of Life, Dark Matter by himself was able to contest every Pokemon in existence (Barring a few who were stone or Mind Controlled) from Flinging the Tree of Life into the Sun, including Mega Mewtwo X, Arceus, Deoxys, Mega Rayquaza, The Legendary Bird Trio, and likely many more not shown.
Like stated above, Dark Matter themselves was stated that he would have thrown Creation into the Void.
And the End-game of it shows Xerneas, the counterpart and Equal to Yveltol who is the Tree of Life.
What's the Tree of Life? Well, the Tree of Life the source of Vitality and the Foundation all Living Things.
The destruction of the Tree of Life and Dark Matter possessing it, is what enables him to threaten all of Creation and Yeet Arceus.
And finally, prior to his ascension after the death of the Tree of Life, Dark Matter by himself was able to contest every Pokemon in existence (Barring a few who were stone or Mind Controlled) from Flinging the Tree of Life into the Sun, including Mega Mewtwo X, Arceus, Deoxys, Mega Rayquaza, The Legendary Bird Trio, and likely many more not shown.
- 1,626
- 148
wym
- 4,187
- 1,484
This Dark Matter stuff is dumb, DM says he wants to "turn the world back to the void" or something like that, however the only way he can achieve its goal is to destabilize the planet so it is absorbed by the sun, and if I remember correctly he needed weeks or months to make progress (And he needed energy from the Tree of Life to even accomplish something that is not even comparable to erasing a universe, something that Dialga or Palkia can do without a problem.)
Same with "The Tree of Life", not only is it something that blatantly contradicts the main games but also contradicts the previous PMD games, where it is stated that Arceus is the creator of EVERYTHING.
Also Arceus' feat (without even being present) in PMD: Sky is far more impressive than anything that happens in SMD.
Same with "The Tree of Life", not only is it something that blatantly contradicts the main games but also contradicts the previous PMD games, where it is stated that Arceus is the creator of EVERYTHING.
Also Arceus' feat (without even being present) in PMD: Sky is far more impressive than anything that happens in SMD.
- 1,626
- 148
He just wanted to kill everyone, that's why he absorbed the power from the Original Spirit, and all of Creation
- 4,187
- 1,484
He didn't absorb a shit, especially since the original spirit is not a literal spirit and the game at no point mentions that concept, plus there are pokemon that exist in outer space and other dimensions.
- 1,626
- 148
Those would still be part of creation, and the original spirit is a spirit and he was absorbing life, like yveltal
- 4,187
- 1,484
It is not, original spirit is just a title, like the Original One, it is not a spirit because it literally precedes the concepts of matter and spirit.
Also the creation trio are not even alive in a conventional way to begin with.
Also the creation trio are not even alive in a conventional way to begin with.
- 4,187
- 1,484
Also, you can't say that DM can destroy the canon Pokémon cosmology when elements of his own game prove that it doesn't even belong to the same cosmology/canon.
Basically, you can't say that DM > Canon/2-A/B Arceus, when elements of SMD prove that SMD Arceus ≠ Canon/2-A/B Arceus.
Basically, you can't say that DM > Canon/2-A/B Arceus, when elements of SMD prove that SMD Arceus ≠ Canon/2-A/B Arceus.
Last edited:
- 1,626
- 148
Because Yveltal is a conceptual being, like dark matter. Its because they destroy your spirit on a conceptual level. Arceus has a spirit that predated spirit, he created spirit but he doesn't transcend the concepts he created to Yveltals extent. They just have good resistance negation
There is no proof of PMD being non canon. Its just another universe, that's all. We literally use darkrai, yveltal, and even Arceus stuff from PMD on their page.
- 4,187
- 1,484
Do you have proof of that? Yveltal has good death manipulation/petrification and that's it, maybe it's a force of nature but at no point is it implied that Yveltal is death itself.
That's unnecessarily convoluted, the spirit was born by the hands of the lake trio, which clearly denotes that the creation trio and Arceus have no soul and that's it, just as there are pokémon like Porygon that blatantly have no soul or Magearna that have an artificial soul.
Also the real Giratina is a dimension that does not even exist in a conventional way, which already makes it obvious that this entity has no soul.
The tree of life bullshit is already a massive red flag as big as Portugal.
Last edited:
- 4,187
- 1,484
Also you are taking Dark Matter's claims too literally, when his feats don't even come close to what he claims, the mere fact that he already has a hard time throwing the planet into the sun says enough on its own.
- 1,626
- 148
He was stated to embody destruction
And yveltal can kill stuff like ghosts which is evidence he can negate immortality
What tree of life stuff?
- 1,626
- 148
Deoxys and Rayquaza were preventing it from happening and he literally made a dimension with stars
Udlmaster
They/Them- 6,909
- 2,114
- Thread starter
- #63
Actually, that wasn't how he was doing it.
He was going to throw the Tree of Life into the Sun. When that happens, natural functions like the Planet spinning will fail and will destroy the planet.
But that's not how he's going to return All Creation to the Void. He doesn't say how he's going to return All Creation to the Void, and he doesn't say that throwing the Planet into the Sun is how he's gonna do it either.
What do you mean?
Moving the Tree of Life is massively above Low 2-C. The Tree of Life is the Foundation for Life itself, which would include many Pokemon who are above Low 2-C like the Creation Trio, Lake Trio and Arceus themselves.
They are still alive though, even the profiles only give them Type 1 and 9 Immortality.
Even Arceus. So no there is no "But unbound from Life and Death, Type 5 Immortality" argument.
Yveltal is the counterpart to Xerneas, who is the embodiment of the Tree of Life and is the Tree of Life itself.
It follows as it's dual opposite it too is a conceptual being. In the game itself, it states that it is the True Destroyer and the End of Pokemon.
So he could just be that.
Not really, the Tree of Life existing doesn't contradict a single thing. It just means that Arceus made something else that binds him, just like his plates, just like the Jewel of Life.
But we can, and I've already explained how we can, SMD's elements don't contradict, you're just trying to nitpick the argument now and are trying to default to it not being canon entirely, which isn't very convincing.
- 4,187
- 1,484
The Tree of Life (which is where Dark Matter absorbs the power) being the foundation of all living things, something that contradicts the main games and also the previous PMD games.
- 1,626
- 148
What's the contradiction?
- 4,187
- 1,484
I haven't played SMD in a long, long time so it's normal to have gaps, however:
Also the fact that you are implying that a physical construct that can be easily burned that only exists in that spin-off can be the foundation of all beings in this franchise, even the gods that exist long before creation or matter was even born says it all.
But hey, you can always try to force 2-A Xerneas/Yveltal with all the problems and the scaling that goes with it, good luck.
Yep, this isn't going anywhere, I'm out.
Man, it is not even stated in the pokédex that Yveltal controls or created death or destruction, unlike Kyogre/Groudon and the ocean/continents.
I can say that Kyogre or Groudon even have a better chance.
Also the fact that you are implying that a physical construct that can be easily burned that only exists in that spin-off can be the foundation of all beings in this franchise, even the gods that exist long before creation or matter was even born says it all.
But hey, you can always try to force 2-A Xerneas/Yveltal with all the problems and the scaling that goes with it, good luck.
Déjà vu.
Yep, this isn't going anywhere, I'm out.
A single statement of X embodying Y does not grant abstract existence, especially without proper context.
Man, it is not even stated in the pokédex that Yveltal controls or created death or destruction, unlike Kyogre/Groudon and the ocean/continents.
I can say that Kyogre or Groudon even have a better chance.
- 1,626
- 148
You can exist before something and be bound by it. And yveltal can kill abstracts which is proof its not hyperbole. Prove yveltal isn't abstract
- 4,187
- 1,484
proof?
- 1,626
- 148
Can kill all pokemon including arceus
- 4,187
- 1,484
proof?
- 1,626
- 148
Scroll up
- 6,605
- 4,155
God, these MD threads are going worse over time.
Palkia is stated to neither be dead nor alive since DP games. Which also applies to the rest of the CT + Arceus.
Yveltal can't kill all Pokemon, you litteraly just need to take Xerneas as proof.
Being called "embobidment of destruction" isn't a proof of being abstract.
Tree of Life being the foundation of life makes it above CT? Yeah no. Let's say Mew is the ancestor of Arceus while we're at it.
Palkia is stated to neither be dead nor alive since DP games. Which also applies to the rest of the CT + Arceus.
Yveltal can't kill all Pokemon, you litteraly just need to take Xerneas as proof.
Being called "embobidment of destruction" isn't a proof of being abstract.
Tree of Life being the foundation of life makes it above CT? Yeah no. Let's say Mew is the ancestor of Arceus while we're at it.
- 1,626
- 148
Arceus was literally killed proving he is bound by the tree of life. They are not alive or dead, but that just means yveltal can negate resistances.
- 4,187
- 1,484
There is nothing above that proves that Yveltal is or can do what you say, and being the counterpart of Xerneas proves nothing, because being the " embodiment" (only in this game) of a "tree of life" (which only exists in this game), a tree that can be easily destroyed by throwing it into the ******* sun has nothing of conceptual or abstract.
No, that never happened, Arceus and the other legendaries were petrified, and that's it, they can even use telepathy in that state if I remember correctly.
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
