Arceus, and the Crown of Lies

[NeoZex6399]

****, first of all Yveltal is a part of Arceus since all pokemon are part of the original spirit.
So Yveltal > Arceus is a ******* nonsense.
Also considering what is said about Arceus in PMD:Sky, Arceus would be in part the creator of Dark Matter.

 

[NeoZex6399]

Although I could be wrong and maybe the Sun is the most powerful thing in Pokémon, considering Dark Matter can't destroy the tree of life personally.
2-A Sun confirmed bois

 

[Udlmaster]

Also the fact that you are implying that a physical construct that can be easily burned that only exists in that spin-off can be the foundation of all beings in this franchise, even the gods that exist long before creation or matter was even born says it all.

You're obviously just here to try and defend a defeated position and not here in good faith, because you'd know this argument doesn't work if you watched any of the clips I provided.

The Tree of Life was to be drained of its power before thrown into the Sun.

Also, regardless, that would just be Durability, not Power. Which is what we're talking about. Power.

A single statement of X embodying Y does not grant abstract existence, especially without proper context.

Not an argument.

proof?

Here's your proof. Also, don't default to "Just petrification" argument I debunked in my OP.

Palkia is stated to neither be dead nor alive since DP games

Citation and then once citation is provided, make a thread, get it approved and put it on the profiles.

Oh, but maybe Diancie is actually above God and everyone in existence, since even her incomplete realisation could fight Yveltal's power back in her movie.

Sure, why not?

You're falling into the same trap that Prof was. You're working backwards from your conclusion and falling into the Argument from Incredulity.

So what if Diancie scales above God? Plenty of verses scale above God, this isn't an argument, it just means we were wrong about the scaling chain.

Arceus and the other legendaries were petrified, and that's it

They had their souls erased dude. Read the OP before spouting debunked points that were debunked in the OP. You are clearly here not to have a debate but to zealously defend a point, you should change your mindset towards this debate because you're not convincing anyone and you're just wasting our time.

Arceus would be in part the creator of Dark Matter.

Sure, I don't deny that Dark Matter would be created by Arceus. I contest that Dark Matter now is superior to Arceus. Creations overcoming their Creator is a very common trope in fiction, and it's not a valid argument.

 

[Garchomp777]

Oh, but maybe Diancie is actually above God and everyone in existence, since even her incomplete realisation could fight Yveltal's power back in her movie.

It may be their very nature but that doesn't mean Yveltal can't use his death manipulation on them. It just means yveltal is just that haxed. Im not using assumptions, I'm literally using feats to back up my claims, while you're using random headcanon to say its an outlier because it goes against your beliefs

All pokemon being a part of arceus means nothing when arceus has weaknesses, limits and isn't even truly omniscient, and needs help from all pokemon to connect with everyone. And pokemon can just surpass him, like how PMD characters do stuff with power of friendship and hope

Also, yes I do believe diancie should be arceus level

 

[NeoZex6399]

You have skipped the exact part of the video where it is shown that their spirit has not been erased causing Dark Matter's surprise, wondering how it can be possible even though they have been petrified.

Also Dark Matter still needs to throw the Tree of Life into the sun despite being weakened.

 

[Udlmaster]

You have skipped the exact part of the video where it is shown that their spirit

You mean them communicating from the World of Nothingness?
There’s nothing wrong with that. This doesn’t prove what you’re saying.

Also Dark Matter still needs to throw the Tree of Life into the sun despite being weakened.

Whana show the part where it says he needs to do that? Not that he’s going to do that, that he needs to do it.

 

[NeoZex6399]

You mean them communicating from the World of Nothingness?
There’s nothing wrong with that. This doesn’t prove what you’re saying

There is nothing that implies what you say, in fact, Dark Matter being so surprised for what is happening is more a proof of the opposite.

Whana show the part where it says he needs to do that? Not that he’s going to do that, that he needs to do it.

Common sense, if DM is so strong it could simply destroy the tree of life by itself when the tree is weakened enough, however it has to resort to the sun to finish the job.

 

[Garchomp777]

There is nothing that implies what you say, in fact, Dark Matter being so surprised for what is happening is more a proof of the opposite.

They got sent into nothingness

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Despite all this talk of Pokémon being stronger then Arceus for this or that, does any Pokémon besides Arceus and the Creation Trio have any feats of Universal level besides scaling?

Lanturn ovo

 

[NeoZex6399]

They got sent into nothingness

Again, there is no reason for Dark Matter to be surprised if that was the case.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Also, yes I do believe diancie should be arceus level

Then you have to make those who scales to Diancie above Arceus, which includes Carbink.
But wait! Sableye eat Carbinks, therefore scaling above Arceus.
But even better! Dusknoir defeated Sableyes!
And Dialga scales above him!
And Arceus scales above him!

Arceus>>>>>Arceus gg

 

[QuasiYuri]

Citation and then once citation is provided, make a thread, get it approved and put it on the profiles.

It's a known feat which was like already accepted.

Sure, why not?

You're falling into the same trap that Prof was. You're working backwards from your conclusion and falling into the Argument from Incredulity.

So what if Diancie scales above God? Plenty of verses scale above God, this isn't an argument, it just means we were wrong about the scaling chain.

Not when it means every single legendary scales above Arceus despite the actual canon works saying otherwise.

 

[Garchomp777]

Again, there is no reason for Dark Matter to be surprised if that was the case.

It just happened

Then you have to make those who scales to Diancie above Arceus, which includes Carbink.
But wait! Sableye eat Carbinks, therefore scaling above Arceus.
But even better! Dusknoir defeated Sableyes!
And Dialga scales above him!
And Arceus scales above him!

Arceus>>>>>Arceus gg

An average carbink doesn't scale to diancie, and diancie was depowered and didn't know how to control its power but learnt very quickly after that, when it fought yveltal it grew in strength. If you think the carbink stuff is valid then sure upgrade carbink and sableye to yveltal level

 

[QuasiYuri]

An average carbink doesn't scale to diancie, and diancie was depowered and didn't know how to control its power but learnt very quickly after that, when it fought yveltal it grew in strength. If you think the carbink stuff is valid then sure upgrade carbink and sableye to yveltal level

Diancie who didn't know how to use her power litteraly blocked his attack.

Also you're litteraly throwing away all logic across several works for the sake of a non canon game.

 

[Garchomp777]

"Non canon game"

Prove its not canon

 

[Garchomp777]

And diancie blocked the attack, but it was still far stronger than before

 

[NeoZex6399]

That's just a reference, nothing more.
Also SMD is not all of PMD

 

[Garchomp777]

Where's the evidence its not canon

 

[QuasiYuri]

"Non canon game"

Prove its not canon

A vague reference proves canonicity now? Guess Mario is canon to Pokemon now.

You have to prove canonicity, not the opposite.

 

[Udlmaster]

It's a known feat which was like already accepted.

Not when it means every single legendary scales above Arceus despite the actual canon works saying otherwise.

It’s not on their profiles, doesn’t seem to be accepted, also you didn’t give citations.

also, no, there just wrong. I doubt all legendaries scale to Arceus, but yeah, some Legendaries are stronger than Arceus, it’s just a fact.

Then you have to make those who scales to Diancie above Arceus, which includes Carbink.
But wait! Sableye eat Carbinks, therefore scaling above Arceus.

Does that Carbink scale to Diance at the time they scale

Then does that Carbink get eaten by a Sabeleye.

That Carbink could just be a exceptionally strong one.

Also you're litteraly throwing away all logic across several works for the sake of a non canon game.

You’ve yet to prove that it’s non-canon.

A vague reference proves canonicity now? Guess Mario is canon to Pokemon now.

The argument that Mario is canon is stronger than the argument PMD is non-canon.

You have to prove canonicity, not the opposite.

No, that’s not how that works. You made the positive claim, you have to fulfil your burden of proof.

 

[QuasiYuri]

No, that’s not how that works. You made the positive claim, you have to fulfil your burden of proof.

Your thread goes from the idea that it is canon. Which isn't accepted. So you are the one making the claim.

Also it's litteraly how it works for every proof of canonicity.

Not satisfied? Do some CRTs and change the standards.

 

[Garchomp777]

A vague reference proves canonicity now? Guess Mario is canon to Pokemon now.

You have to prove canonicity, not the opposite.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/572160928510902287/797132202655088680/MD_1.png

Its literally just another universe and like I said its referenced in masters. The profiles like arceus does use PMD as canon

 

[QuasiYuri]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/572160928510902287/797132202655088680/MD_1.png

Its literally just another universe and like I said its referenced in masters. The profiles like arceus does use PMD as canon

The removal of non-canon stuff isn't done yet.
Also we litteraly have a blog about what's canon.

Your scan just prove that inside MD's own lore, the trainers are in another universe.
You need proof from the canon itself.

 

[Garchomp777]

The removal of non-canon stuff isn't done yet.
Also we litteraly have a blog about what's canon.

Your scan just prove that inside MD's own lore, the trainers are in another universe.
You need proof from the canon itself.

Exactly, its in another universe. Most of the games take place in different universes. Its still canon

 

[QuasiYuri]

Exactly, its in another universe. Most of the games take place in different universes. Its still canon

I'm asking for proof of canonicity. Not how MD's lore treats it.

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

I'm asking for proof of canonicity. Not how MD's lore treats it.

We're already arguing this on another thread. Stop trying to move a discussion that's best suited for that thread onto here.

 

[QuasiYuri]

We're already arguing this on another thread. Stop trying to move a discussion that's best suited for that thread onto here.

Fine.