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AP Gap Needed to Oneshot

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I'm going to "unfollow" the thread (but still watch it unfold) now because I've already said what I think. Just monitoring it for derail and all now.
 
Here's a good, simple compromise:

Put this on the One-Shot page (Minus the bold):

"For example, an Attack Potency to Durability gap of ten times could mean that a single attack from a stronger character could cripple or seriously injure the other."

Satisfies both parties. It's flexible, doesn't set anything in stone, and has a number in it so the people who want to suck the fun out of the debate can stare at it or something or cry wolf when they see stuff above that number.

I still stand by Sera, Matt, and many others who think this is unreasonable and unnecessary, but I'll try throwing this bone.
 
I don't even remember what was the conversation about... Like, do people like to put a limit of how much is needed to oneshot (x10 I believe), or just what was the other option? Do nothing? Cuz is no different than the previous one cuz Weekly people will stay complain that a gap of x5 will led to oneshotting the opponent.
 
No one's an "Idiot", we're just sharing our own opinions. Sera does have a good point that we shouldn't say things like numbers multiplier means everything. VS debating in generally isn't a linear concept; scientific complexity is a vital factor. There's everything to consider, not just one simple math equation.
 
Strongly agree with DDM.

None of this is personal. In fact, I can agree with much of the reasoning Kep and Kal put forward, I just disagree about the practicality of it all and especially the end-result.
 
You can't go "science is on my side" and then say it's an opinion. When you use science and physics in your agument you are claiming you are factual (the opposite of opinionated). That pisses me off when people bring that up because it's literally saying "hey! we're the smartest guys in the vs debating community because we equalize speed! And we acknowledge the fact that if someone is 10x stronger than someone they'd one shot them!" That's the implication when you use science as justification for an argument when it isn't needed.
 
@Sera

Look, I'm not going to say our community is without flaws, but this isn't the best place to rant about how we work in general.

In my point of view, issues like this are solved piece by piece, over time, given the general girth of our userbase.
 
"Science" isn't limited to physics, chemistry, math, biology, astronomy, and all those other stuff. Philosophy was the original science in fact. In fact, characters who naturally break the laws of physics are also things to consider; fiction in general does that all the time.
 
And do you realize I've defended this place and how it operates for years? Now that I'm pointing out something I don't like, it's an issue? That seems to be a recurring theme this year...
 
Sera Loveheart said:
You can't go "science is on my side" and then say it's an opinion. When you use science and physics in your agument you are claiming you are factual (the opposite of opinionated). That pisses me off when people bring that up because it's literally saying "hey! we're the smartest guys in the vs debating community because we equalize speed! And we acknowledge the fact that if someone is 10x stronger than someone they'd one shot them!" That's the implication when you use science as justification for an argument when it isn't needed.
Click to expand...
You can form an opinion based on facts though.
 
I didn't say otherwise, Shadow.

I'm very open minded you see, so clearly I wouldn't have such a problem with this if it didn't strike me the wrong way.
 
Why have we even having such a big debate about it ?

The only thing that is getting added is a clarification

NOTHING WILL CHANGE WHEN THIS GETS ADDED
 
In Dragon Ball, according to Word of God the necessary AP Gap for either one-shotting, or for tanking attacks with no damage whatsoever, is two times. That has been stated in multiple guidebooks.

That is why when Gohan went Super Saiyan 2 against Cell and his power doubled, Cell became completely unable to even put a scratch on him until he himself powered up further from a Zenkai boost. Gohan's power at that point was JUST ABOUT two times Perfect Cell's (actually probably something more like 1.9 times since before SSJ2, Gohan was SLIGHTLY weaker than Cell), and Gohan very clearly demonstrated the ability to one-shot Cell at that point (only reason he didn't is because he was holding back in order to make Cell suffer more).


As others have said, the necessary AP gap for one-shotting depends on the mechanics of the particular Verse in question.
 
Kepekley23 said:
Seems like this thread is getting hard-derailed and going way off its tracks, and people are losing their chill.

A new thread should be made.
Click to expand...
I can make if you wish
 
Kepekley23 said:
The entire system is built on real world physics. The only topic where physics can't be used as an argument here is the AoE Fallacy. Everything else is, and should, be subject to them with rare exceptions.
Unless you want to install a CharacterRant anarchy where calcs don't matter, only what people eyeball the feat at, and physics are only valid if they boost your favorite character. How about that?
Click to expand...
Legit!^^
 
No. And I'm tired of people assuming that. When have I ever been biased? Ever? Refresh my memory. I have always been neutral and never shown severe bias for any verse. I have never even made a single content revision thread about Godzilla, one of my favorite verses.
 
I mean Kep literally went over what I was trying to say and made a statement implying I would prefer a system where people ignore physics only when it affects characters I like, which is total bullshit for reasons I've just said. If it seems like I'm angry, comments like that are why. It's a false assumption that never applied to me, yet seems to be used in discussions between us often.
 
He could have worded it better, however from what I can see, he was trying to say that there are certain users who may show bias if there was a disregard for physics on here. I don't think he meant you in particular (at least I hope he didn't).
 
That's obvious, but is also a slippery slope argument which, while we've all made them before, no one is really fond of.
 
Malicious intent or not, doesn't matter. The implication came from nowhere. I was the one that made the rebuttle about physics and our system, and I didn't say anything implying we should ignore it to fit our personal agendas, I said what the general vs debating community at large agrees with, I said "everything in fiction works as it does in reality until proven otherwise."
 
Actually, thinking on it more, I feel like it should be a more unofficial guideline then an actual one, like what many other people feel.

Just, in general, just feels like the best course of action is to keep it as it is, it's not a solid thing at all, it's just, if one has 10x more AP then someone's dura, then people are gonna kinda agree it's a bit lopsided. Just, as a general idea that the community itself kinda passes around.
 
Looks like people are getting pretty hostile and defensive here. I don't see why, though. Can't we all just have a rational and calm discussion about this topic?
 
Who's getting hostile? Hostility is far more volatile than this.
 
Sera Loveheart said:
I said "everything in fiction works as it does in reality until proven otherwise."
Click to expand...
Could've sworn that's how we already do things on here.

As for having physics in our system, it's the most viable way to gouge out how strong a character is. Otherwise a lot of characters would have their stats misrepresented.

I just don't want you to let this stuff get into your head. It isn't good for you.
 
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