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Another OPM revision

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Nullflowerblush said:
This is the "textbook definition" of tanking, hell even no-selling.

Pri-Pri-Prisoner leaps over the heroes and then turns around to talk to them, only to get punched in the face by the Monster. While he was distracted and off-guard, he took the punch and did not budge and only reacted to it after the fact. He was obviously unaffected by the Monster's punch.

"And you can see that that monster was able to harm him, causing his nose to bleed with its punch."

Chip damage ≠ he harmed him. The nosebleed is also only visible for a single panel. In the pages following, his nose is no longer bleeding, so this is a moot counter, considering the other piece of evidence pointed out above.
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How does that help your point that Puri doesn't need a barrage of punches to finish that monster?
Do I really need to point out that Murata's arts are usually inconsistencies? When that monster punches him, you can see that there are small traces of blood coming from his face. Puri being caught off guard doesn't really make his durability decrease, those fellow prisoners of him could not even scratch his skin even when he was asleep.
Nullflowerblush said:
Everyone seems to be avoiding taking hits from Melzargard, so do we downgrade Bang to Small City level+ or upgrade Melzargard to City level? You also just can't ignore the fact that:
  1. The damage Pri-Pri-Prisoner did to Melzargard is greater than the damage that Bang did to Melzargard, most likely due to his larger physique, but still.
  2. Pri-Pri-Prisoner managed to pummel Melzargard, drawing blood from him and causing him to respond to the pain, with a barrage of punches, eventually leaving holes in his body. And remember, Melzargard isn't a glass cannon.
  3. We can see Pri-Pri-Prisoner countering Melzargard's attacks with his own before grabbing onto his arms mid-charge and restraining him, to the point Melzargard could not move, even after Pri-Pri-Prisoner began watching Bang.
Click to expand...
You are dodging someone's attacks doesn't mean those attacks can really harm you. What is this kind of argument?
 
Nullflowerblush said:
  1. The damage Pri-Pri-Prisoner did to Melzargard is greater than the damage that Bang did to Melzargard, most likely due to his larger physique, but still.
  2. Pri-Pri-Prisoner managed to pummel Melzargard, drawing blood from him and causing him to respond to the pain, with a barrage of punches, eventually leaving holes in his body. And remember, Melzargard isn't a glass cannon.
  3. We can see Pri-Pri-Prisoner countering Melzargard's attacks with his own before grabbing onto his arms mid-charge and restraining him, to the point Melzargard could not move, even after Pri-Pri-Prisoner began watching Bang.
Click to expand...
Even if he isn't entirely glass canon. His durability isn't anywhere close to his AP at all, considering Iaian could slice him with ease, and you know Melzalgard toyed with him and could obliterate his body. So you can't scale 3P to Bang for dealing more damage than him, it's just weird.
 
ImposingTiger said:
And? Garou being faster doesn't mean Metal Bat's attacks were not stronger than Garou's durability. They were. And him harming Metal Bat is the same case, it just means Metal Bat would damage himself too. I don't see a problem with my scaling.
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I took "avoid the attacks" as literally avoid the attacks.

Anyway, where did the statement of Metal Bat being able to kill Garou with one hit even come from? Murata? Because, unless Metal Bat is a glass cannon, which would make absolutely no sense, then Garou would have to be able to kill himself in one hit, too, making him a glass cannon. That obviously is not the case though.

Garou is superior to Metal Bat in terms of strength, or rather, is capable of beating him to the point he had to be hospitalized for the most of the saga.
So, Garou's AP > Pumped Up Metal Bat's Durability. So, if Pumped Up Metal Bat was capable of killing Garou in one swing, that would mean that Pumped Up Metal Bat's AP >>> Garou's AP > Pumped Up Metal Bat's Durability, but at that point, Metal Bat is tearing his body apart. There's also nothing to suggest the scaling works this way. All of his physical abilities are increased through Fighting Spirit, not just his strength.

And Murata himself has gone on to state that he is kind of an unreliable source and that ONE had virtually complete control over the story, which is why most Murata statements are no longer used by the Wiki.

Kin201 said:
How does that help your point that Puri doesn't need a barrage of punches to finish that monster?
Click to expand...
The Monster that Pri-Pri-Prisoner defeated is stated to be as powerful as the Deep Sea King. If that is the case, and Pri-Pri-Prisoner tanked its punch, not even flinching in response, that means this Pri-Pri-Prisoner >>> Deep Sea King, which means you cannot use the Deep Sea King as an anti-feat. Him using a barrage to defeat the Monster is irrelevant, as he is very obviously much more powerful than it. That is my point.

You claimed that Pri-Pri-Prisoner could not have scaled to Melzargard, because Melzargard defeated the Sky King in one hit, whereas Pri-Pri-Prisoner defeated a DSP-level Monster using a barrage, but Pri-Pri-Prisoner is portrayed as obviously superior to the Monster to begin with, so this is a moot comparison. That's like saying Pri-Pri-Prisoner can't be that much stronger in the Monster Association Arc than he was in the Sea Monster Arc, since he used a barrage to defeat Baquma.

Besides, using a barrage is in-character for Pri-Pri-Prisoner and is typically his starter. Murata also said "Puri Puri Prisoner is using the technique Deep Sea King used to defeat him against the monster", so Pri-Pri-Prisoner using a barrage is for thematic purposes.

Kin201 said:
Even if he isn't entirely glass canon. His durability isn't anywhere close to his AP at all, considering Iaian could slice him with ease, and you know Melzalgard toyed with him and could obliterate his body. So you can't scale 3P to Bang for dealing more damage than him, it's just weird.
Click to expand...
I was not planning on scaling Pri-Pri-Prisoner to Bang, or at least not Bang at full power. That'd be silly.

Even disregarding the barrage, Pri-Pri-Prisoner still restrained Melzargard, which would require him to have comparable power, or at least power in the same range, and Lifting Strength, but the plan is to downgrade Choze's Lifting Strength, soo but is only one piece of evidence, so a "possibly Small City level+ after training"?
 
And he damaged Psykojet, who is 7-B, so that wouldn’t really be inconsistent
 
Nullflowerblush said:
So, Garou's AP > Pumped Up Metal Bat's Durability. So, if Pumped Up Metal Bat was capable of killing Garou in one swing, that would mean that Pumped Up Metal Bat's AP >>> Garou's AP > Pumped Up Metal Bat's Durability, but at that point, Metal Bat is tearing his body apart. There's also nothing to suggest the scaling works this way. All of his physical abilities are increased through Fighting Spirit, not just his strength.
Click to expand...
It's exactly this. Metal Bat's AP is way higher than his own durability because he fights with a bat. You see this when Garou redirects MB's swings at him and MB gets finished (before getting the last amp), showing he can one shot himself. And there was a point where MB evolved to a degree that Garou couldn't harm him anymore and all he could do was dodge, reflect and attack without results.

It's the same case as AS, who gets damage from a single Black S but can cut through Psykorochi because his AP with the sword is higher than his own durability.

The scale would be: Garou's durability< Spiral Incineration Cannon <= Senior Centipede's durability< Pumped Up Metal Bat's AP
 
ImposingTiger said:
It's the same case as AS, who gets damage from a single Black S but can cut through Psykorochi because his AP with the sword is higher than his own durability.
Click to expand...
Uh, you do realize that Black Sperm is 7-B, possibly 7-A while Psykojet is just 7-B, right?
 
ImposingTiger said:
Metal Bat's AP is way higher than his own durability because he fights with a bat.
Click to expand...
Why would the bat increase his AP to such a level that he can one-shot himself? The only thing special about the bat is its indestructibility. This isn't like a sword with Atomic Samurai, where a bladed weapon pretty much negs everything, it's just a blunt weapon that Metal Bat is putting his strength into.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Why would the bat increase his AP to such a level that he can one-shot himself? The only thing special about the bat is its indestructibility. This isn't like a sword with Atomic Samurai, where a bladed weapon pretty much negs everything, it's just a blunt weapon that Metal Bat is putting his strength into.
Click to expand...
It widens the swing arc, and adds weight. Hardness is a nice bonus too.
If you had to destroy something, and you had the choice of either punching it or using a baseball bat, the choice would be obvious, and the difference would be major.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Why would the bat increase his AP to such a level that he can one-shot himself? The only thing special about the bat is its indestructibility. This isn't like a sword with Atomic Samurai, where a bladed weapon pretty much negs everything, it's just a blunt weapon that Metal Bat is putting his strength into.
Click to expand...
For the same reason you can one shot yourself with a metal bat, he can.

And we literally see Garou redirect MB's swings at him, and he gets one shoted, so it proves his AP>his durability.
 
USklaverei said:
Why ?
Click to expand...
Because there's no guarantee Giant Snowman is walking around at hypersonic speeds. Giants tend to move slow af relative to their size, like Giant Snowman does in the anime. If the anime depiction were accurate he'd be lucky to break mach 1. From what I know, assuming relative speed for giants is now considered a no-no unless we see them running like an ordinary person of that size would
 
Copying from the updated large size calculations page, "To confirm that they are that fast, it must be clear that they, for instance, take steps within the same timeframe or less than a normal human would."

As far as I'm aware we have no guarantee Giant Snowman moves "step" for step at the same rate an ordinary person would
 
@Nullflowerblush Try to scale 3P to Melzalgard if you wish. I disagree with this personally. You tried to fully scale him to Melzalgard based on a single very vague scan.
 
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I think the simple explanation is that Melzagald has shit durability. Even Iaian was able to cut his body. His body is made of a clay-like substance that can stretch, deform and regenerate. His AP doesn't have to scale to his Durability
 
Some people disagree with scaling for Human Garou and we need to change the LS for all those who scale to choze.

Psykorochi and Genos scaling can be moved to another CRT.
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
Do you think Garou should downscale from TTM to High 7-C+ or just be At most Low 7-B?
Click to expand...
Also which option is better to ya'll?

Also Imposing tiger brings up some good points.
ImposingTiger said:
WSRSF doesn't increase the user's strength but it can be used to damage characters who would tank your attacks if you hit them without the technique. That's because it is specifically designed to harm pressure points. If it gets a new tier (which I agree), it should be specified that :

1-It doesn't increase power but technique and presicion.
2- It works better against human-shaped bodies, as stated in the manga.

It would help us understand why he was able to deflect attacks from Metal Bat that would have killed him if they had connected. Metal Bat one shot Senior Centipede who is stated to be able to tank Spiral Incineration Cannon, which was intended to kill Garou. Then a more pumped up Metal Bat fought Garou and the latter had to use WSRSF to avoid the attacks.
Click to expand...
 
Kin201 said:
Maybe Gale Wind and Hellfire Flame can be 7-A for downscaling from Flash?
Click to expand...
He one-shot both of them at once. The only reason they lasted nearly as long as they did is because Flash was intentionally holding back waiting for an opportunity to kill both of them at the same time with a cool flashy attack.
 
I know but I'm not proposing for them to fully scale to him. They can be 7-A while Flash is 7-A+. The reason is because they could physically could harm him.
 
Kin201 said:
I know but I'm not proposing for them to fully scale to him. They can be 7-A while Flash is 7-A+. The reason is because they could physically could harm him.
Click to expand...
Yes but FF uses a sword so his AP is likely higher than his durability. We don't know if HF and GW can use the sword up to that level, where AP problably comes from speed.
 
You're not wrong. Atomic Samurai for example, I honestly don't think he can tank his own Atomic Slash. But we're currently still scaling the likes of them with their durability being on the same tier as their AP.
 
I explained why they don't scale. They are even noted as only being "Cadre Candidates" indicating that their strength is inferior to that of the accepted Cadres so they definitely can't be 7-A.
 
Back to Garou, I don't think WSRSF should have a tier since its a martial art not some ability that increases ap. The most it does is help the user block and redirect attacks and is based off the users skill in tandem with there strength. WSRSF can help even the gap in AP if the opponent has an advantage, but it is ultimately limited by the strength of the user. With HH Garou I think he should be at most low 7-B since he did so well against Genos while seriously injured and based off his performance against TTM and Metal Bat.
 
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