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Another OPM revision

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Axxtentacle said:
Wouldn't them being candidates mean they're strong enough to get that role?? I don't feel that argument works.
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If it's not it's own classification, AKA a real defined class as opposed to just saying "these guys are under consideration", it's probably a statement of potential. The ninja bros were still working on their own reaction speeds and had more training to do according to Flashy Flash. If they improved in both those areas, I think they would have been cadres, but as of yet they weren't quite on that level
 
Gale Wind and Hellfire Flame DOES EVERY NINJA HAVE STUPID ASS NAMES didn't really do anything to Flashy Flash, unless you count Human Hellfire Flame blocking a casual attack from Flashy Flash as a feat. The two could never land a hit on him and in the end, Flashy Flash beat them simultaneously with one attack.
 
Well that derailed quickly. Come on guys let get back on track and finish this CRT. Enough talking about Flashy and Jack O' Lantern Panic
 
Dual_Binoculars said:
Back to Garou, I don't think WSRSF should have a tier since its a martial art not some ability that increases ap. The most it does is help the user block and redirect attacks and is based off the users skill in tandem with there strength. WSRSF can help even the gap in AP if the opponent has an advantage, but it is ultimately limited by the strength of the user. With HH Garou I think he should be at most low 7-B since he did so well against Genos while seriously injured and based off his performance against TTM and Metal Bat.
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You don't have to be physically stronger in terms of AP in order to get another tier. There are also hax abilities that have their own tier but they do not increase AP at all. The difference is that they are a tool that helps them beat the opponent, something they wouldn't be able to do normally.

Do I care if he gets a higher rating with WSRSF? Tbh no, but it would help A LOT with the scaling. Not only it makes it more consistent, but it also removes some misconceptions and "upgrades" some characters. I already pointed it out but I'll say it again:

1- Tank Top Master was surprised when Garou showed WSRSF, acknowledging he had been holding back.

2- He can redirect attacks with a power at least comparable (or twice as strong iirc), making his attacks much stronger than his normal AP and even durability.

3- Metal Bat while pumped up could one shot Senior Centipede. This monster is implied by Murata to be able to take Spiral Incineration Cannon, which was intended to kill Forest Garou. Garou stated it would have been bad if he had taken a single strike from Metal Bat. Yet he could deflect and redirect all his attacks thanks to WSRSF. The reason why he was able to beat him was because he returned MB's attacks back at him, given that he couldn't do anything to damage him with normal attacks.

4-If this gets discussed and accepted, it would be important to specify that WSRSF is only more effective because it targets weak spots and pressure points, but it doesn't increase AP. It should also be said that it works a lot better against human shaped bodies, as stated in the hospital conversation with TTM and Mumen Rider.
 
ImposingTiger said:
You don't have to be physically stronger in terms of AP in order to get another tier. There are also hax abilities that have their own tier but they do not increase AP at all. The difference is that they are a tool that helps them beat the opponent, something they wouldn't be able to do normally.

Do I care if he gets a higher rating with WSRSF? Tbh no, but it would help A LOT with the scaling. Not only it makes it more consistent, but it also removes some misconceptions and "upgrades" some characters. I already pointed it out but I'll say it again:

1- Tank Top Master was surprised when Garou showed WSRSF, acknowledging he had been holding back.

2- He can redirect attacks with a power at least comparable (or twice as strong iirc), making his attacks much stronger than his normal AP and even durability.

3- Metal Bat while pumped up could one shot Senior Centipede. This monster is implied by Murata to be able to take Spiral Incineration Cannon, which was intended to kill Forest Garou. Garou stated it would have been bad if he had taken a single strike from Metal Bat. Yet he could deflect and redirect all his attacks thanks to WSRSF. The reason why he was able to beat him was because he returned MB's attacks back at him, given that he couldn't do anything to damage him with normal attacks.

4-If this gets discussed and accepted, it would be important to specify that WSRSF is only more effective because it targets weak spots and pressure points, but it doesn't increase AP. It should also be said that it works a lot better against human shaped bodies, as stated in the hospital conversation with TTM and Mumen Rider.
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Agreed, but the attack reflection can pseudo boost AP, since he could reflect a low 7-B strike that transcends his regular AP back at the target
 
I do support Higher with WSRSF, but it having its own tier just seems weird to me tbh. If someone provides more evidence for it I could change my mind. But I think HH Garou should be Low 7-B, Higher with WSRSF and give that to everyone else who uses WSRSF.
 
I disagree with H garou being straight up Low 7-B+ as it contradicts the scaling as stated above, I'd take"At most", but at the end of the day, Garou is still weaker than TTM physically
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
I disagree with H garou being straight up Low 7-B+ as it contradicts the scaling as stated above, I'd take"At most", but at the end of the day, Garou is still weaker than TTM physically
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No one said HH Garou should be Low 7-B+, at least from what I've read. I'm advocating for At Most Low 7-B scaling from Genos and TTM so Garou would basically be baseline.
 
I don't know why Garou being superior to Tank Top Master in terms of physical strength is so hard to believe.
  • Argument #1: Garou literally beat Tank Top Master
Upon getting serious and actually deciding to fight back, Garou, instinctively, I mind you, punches Tank Top Master and caves his nose in before pummeling him with strikes, punching him into a wall, and then ultimately knocks him out with one blow.
  • Argument #1.5: Maybe it isn't Attack Reflection
When recalling the events of the fight, Tanktop Master states that "... his techniques returned my own strength twofold", with the image used being a reference to Garou punching Tanktop Master. Now, unless Garou can return a opponent's power onto them through being punched alone, which just seems nonsensical, coupled with the fact that Garou beat Tanktop Master up, bare-fisted, there is a possibility that Tanktop Master was saying that Garou struck him twice as powerful as he could (i.e., Garou is twice as powerful as Tanktop Master). But this is pure speculation.
  • Argument #2: On his deathbed, Garou fought someone as powerful as Tanktop Master
I feel like this point has been done to death, but "Despite having lost most of his strength as a result of exhaustion, blood loss, and poison, he managed to hold his own against Post-Superfight Genos and implied he would perform better against him in peak condition".

On that note, why is Tanktop Master rated as Large Town level+ instead of Small City level? Why is he being downscaled from Genos, if they're stated to be as powerful as each other?
 
Dual_Binoculars said:
No one said HH Garou should be Low 7-B+, at least from what I've read. I'm advocating for At Most Low 7-B scaling from Genos and TTM so Garou would basically be baseline.
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I mean Low 7-B, sorry my bad. But the thing is that post superfight Geno's is already very slightly above baseline
 
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Nullflowerblush said:
I don't know why Garou being superior to Tank Top Master in terms of physical strength is so hard to believe.
  • Argument #1: Garou literally beat Tank Top Master
Upon getting serious and actually deciding to fight back, Garou, instinctively, I mind you, punches Tank Top Master and caves his nose in before pummeling him with strikes, punching him into a wall, and then ultimately knocks him out with one blow.
  • Argument #1.5: Maybe it isn't Attack Reflection
When recalling the events of the fight, Tanktop Master states that "... his techniques returned my own strength twofold", with the image used being a reference to Garou punching Tanktop Master. Now, unless Garou can return a opponent's power onto them through being punched alone, which just seems nonsensical, coupled with the fact that Garou beat Tanktop Master up, bare-fisted, there is a possibility that Tanktop Master was saying that Garou struck him twice as powerful as he could (i.e., Garou is twice as powerful as Tanktop Master). But this is pure speculation.
  • Argument #2: On his deathbed, Garou fought someone as powerful as Tanktop Master
I feel like this point has been done to death, but "Despite having lost most of his strength as a result of exhaustion, blood loss, and poison, he managed to hold his own against Post-Superfight Genos and implied he would perform better against him in peak condition".

On that note, why is Tanktop Master rated as Large Town level+ instead of Small City level? Why is he being downscaled from Genos, if they're stated to be as powerful as each other?
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Hero Hunter Garou being physically stronger than Tanktop Master goes against the narrative. TTM says what makes Garou's strength different is his technique and implies himself to be physically stronger than Garou, as he says no matter how strong his attacks are, they are utterly useless if they don't hit Garou.

Also. Did Human Garou show the ability to pick up a building and throw it away with... like hypersonic speeds?
 
TTM was amped by Fubuki when that happened, so you might wanna pick a better example.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
I was not referring to Lifting Strength, I was referring to Attack Potency.
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Without using techniques, skills, etc.. If Garou tries to beat Tanktop Master with brute strength, he never wins, is it really so hard to understand? If he can beat him with brute strength, why would he bother using WSRSF?
 
Garou was getting his arse handed to him up until he started using WSRSF. If he could just brute force TTM, he would've done so like what he did to other heroes.
 
Garou takes a lot of damage by a single punch from TTM. Garou needs a barrage of punches to beat him and hits his vital spots. When your vital spots are damaged, you will quickly lose consciousness.

Garou is still standing despite taking a beat down from TTM? Because his stamina is likely superior to TTM, that's all. Not that he is more durable than TTM. And his vital spots aren't damaged either.

Your reasonings of Garou being superior to TTM in terms of physical strength are biased.

Again. Garou at that point held a grudge against Bang and would never want to use his martial arts at all. He was forced to use it, that was the context.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Garou bounced back from one of Tanktop Master's punch, laughed off the Tanktop Tackle, and quickly recovered from the Tanktop Punch, albeit with some severe internal damage. This was before he got serious and actually began fighting back, by the way. And again, he beat Tanktop Master's ass.

Also, apparently, Garou broke Tanktop Master's arm during their fight. It was also noted by the news that Tanktop Master was the one with the most injuries.
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Garou is the type to laugh off internal damage and lasting injuries as long as he sees a path to victory, he was still clearly hurt and affected but he's a cocky guy.

If TTM was no big deal for Garou, why did he use WSRSF to beat him? TTM hurt Garou enough to force him to use his best tools and we have to remember that TTM might have been holding back on Garou up until that point (he was ambiguous if Garou was human or not). Without WSRSF, I say TTM beats Garou 9.5/10
 
"He was forced to use it"
"force him to use his best tools"

"Oops!"
Also, the databook states that Garou's body used the technique on its own.

Why are we neglecting to mention the fact that Garou caved Tanktop Master's nose in, causing severe bleeding, with a single strike, struck Tanktop Master into a wall and nearly shattered it, and ultimately knocked Tanktop Master out with a casual punch, leaving him with the most injuries out of everyone there, which included a broken arm? At worst, Garou is comparable to Tanktop Master in power, unless you want to argue Tanktop Master is a glass cannon.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Why are we neglecting to mention the fact that Garou caved Tanktop Master's nose in, causing severe bleeding, with a single strike, struck Tanktop Master into a wall and nearly shattered it, and ultimately knocked Tanktop Master out with a casual punch, leaving him with the most injuries out of everyone there, which included a broken arm? At worst, Garou is comparable to Tanktop Master in power, unless you want to argue Tanktop Master is a glass cannon.
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Because those are all AFTER he used WSRSF?
 
Nullflowerblush said:
"He was forced to use it"
"force him to use his best tools"

"Oops!"
Also, the databook states that Garou's body used the technique on its own.

Why are we neglecting to mention the fact that Garou caved Tanktop Master's nose in, causing severe bleeding, with a single strike, struck Tanktop Master into a wall and nearly shattered it, and ultimately knocked Tanktop Master out with a casual punch, leaving him with the most injuries out of everyone there, which included a broken arm? At worst, Garou is comparable to Tanktop Master in power, unless you want to argue Tanktop Master is a glass cannon.
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Why did his body use the technique on its own then? We're still interpreting the why, because the what "his body used it independently" doesn't clarify for us. It sounds like an instinct to me, and I assume that the body would only act autonomously like that when threatened. Garou was getting beat hard at that point, so that interpretation makes sense.

If it wasn't damage forcing an instinctual defensive reaction, what alternate are you proposing?
 
It should be noted that Garou was getting nosebleeds when TTM was holding back.

If TTM wasn't holding back, how much damage could those attacks have done? The fact that TTM seems to go all in when he decides Garou isn't worth considering a human and then (not before) Garou's body instinctively uses the strongest tool available, makes me think that every hit from TTM (when not holding back) is a threat to Garou's well-being.
 
Okay so ive been informed that Garou for some reason scales to Rover. Why is this? Rover stomped the hell out of Garou, theres no reason why he should scale in durability to something that stomped him
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
Because he survived attacks from a bloodlusted Rover.
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Survivability is not the same thing as durability. We justhad this exact conversation on the TF2 revision thread, if an attack does significant damage to a person to the point that they are outright stomped by it it does not count as a durability feat
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Survivability is not the same thing as durability. We justhad this exact conversation on the TF2 revision thread, if an attack does significant damage to a person to the point that they are outright stomped by it it does not count as a durability feat
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It actually does not do an extreme amount of damage to him, it doesn't wound him much more than he was already wounded, and he recovers fairly quickly afterwards.
 
Axxtentacle said:
It actually does not do an extreme amount of damage to him, it doesn't wound him much more than he was already wounded, and he recovers fairly quickly afterwards.
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Again im not sure if youre confusing the webcomic with the manga but in th manga Garou got godstomped by Rover. Just becaus he did not immediately die does not automatially mean its a durability feat
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Again im not sure if youre confusing the webcomic with the manga but in th manga Garou got godstomped by Rover. Just becaus he did not immediately die does not automatially mean its a durability feat
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You said significantly damage, which isn't what happens. He just thinks it could potentially kill him, but it doesn't end up damaging him that much. It's a solid dura feat.
 
Axxtentacle said:
You said significantly damage, which isn't what happens. He just thinks it could potentially kill him, but it doesn't end up damaging him that much. It's a solid dura feat.
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It did in fact deal significant damage to him

At this point i think a thread about what constitutes as a durability feat in general is in order because feats like this keep getting accepted when thyre not durability feats
 
WeeklyBattles said:
It did in fact deal significant damage to him

At this point i think a thread about what constitutes as a durability feat in general is in order because feats like this keep getting accepted when thyre not durability feats
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It doesn't. He recovers quickly and he's not much more wounded than he was beforehand.
 
If you're seriously telling me that it significantly damaged him when he was this beforehand and this afterwards, then you must not know what a durability feat is. The only thing different about him is that his clothing got torn up some.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
It did in fact deal significant damage to him

At this point i think a thread about what constitutes as a durability feat in general is in order because feats like this keep getting accepted when thyre not durability feats
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The last (and biggest attack) that Rover blasts Garou with, doesn't damage him that much, as he was able to fight Orochi and Gyoro Gyoro right after.
 
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