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ANOTHER Dragon Ball Super speed upgrade

Ednaxel2

Ednaxel2

3,278
2,096
It's currently accepted in this thread that the resultant fusion scales above the two fusers due to guide books stating so, with Base Vegito in the Buu Saga scaling above SSJ3 supporting said statements. We see a few other examples supporting this too, such as:
  • Base Gogeta handling SSJ Broly who an hour before overpowered SSB Goku and Vegeta with a combined Kamehameha/Galick Gun
  • Base Kefla overpowering the SSG Goku who was handling SSJ2 Caulifla and controlled FPSSJ Kale
  • And (while it is part of a separate sort of timeline/continuation) base DBS Manga Vegito obliterating half of Fused Zamasu's body who could no diff imperfected blue Goku and Vegeta
This means in the anime that base Vegito is above SSB Goku & SSB Vegeta in base alone, this would also account for the Kaio-ken x10 Goku used against Hit in their first fight, and Merged Zamasu is comparable SSB Vegito. During the tournament of power when the suppressed Jiren was halting back the spirit bomb, Supreme Kai stated his energy was stronger than anything they faced before, including Merged Zamasu. A common counterpoint to this is that Supreme Kai can sense Jiren's full power even when he's only demonstrated his power in a supressed state like Whis and other characters supposedly can, however the Buu Saga contradicts this having Supreme Kai believe that base Goku, Vegeta and Gohan would have to team up against Pui Pui and Yakon (with the knowledge they can go SSJ) yet was shocked to see Vegeta easily kill Pui Pui and Goku overpower Yakon in base, he even thought Goku was at a massive disadvantage using SSJ against Yakon but was shocked to see Goku using too much energy for Yakon to absorb. So he would have to refer to Jiren in his suppressed state, which UI Omen Goku scales to, so in short:

SSB Kaio-ken x10 Goku < Base Vegito < 125,000x (SSB's multiplier) < SSB Vegito ~ Merged Zamasu < Suppressed Jiren ~ UI Omen Goku (First Awakening) < SSB Goku (Post-UI Omen 2nd Awaking) "and so on and so forth"

Also some issues with the blog itself but it's just typos and spelling mistakes, nonillion and decillion have two Ls yet the blog spells it as "nonilion" and "decilion", and SSJB Goku KKx20 (Post UIO2) should be "At least 59.125 Nonillion c, likely far higher" NOT "At least 59.125 Decilion c, likely far higher"

Agree: LuffyRuffy46307, DarkDragonMedeus, DonkeySlayer06, Shiraito983, UchihaSlayer96

Disagree: AguilaR202

Neutral:
 
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I disagree with Vegito scaling to Kaioken Goku or SSB in base, fusion is a A*B affair meaning that just because Gogeta in base during broly had surpassed blue levels, the same may not apply to Vegito as Goku and Vegeta were considerably weaker then, and unlike the manga Base Vegito doesn’t showcase his power vs Zamasu and Goes straight to Blue ( granted that the latter had already beefed himself up)
 
I mostly agree that in general, Fusion transformations are stronger than the two people who create the Fusion. As you said, this has been demonstrated with Gogeta paired with SSJ Broly, who defeated SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta, and the same is true for Kefla.
 
so following this revision, the scaling chain with the "Fusions base >> Fusés maximum" would be:

Suppressed Beerus/Base DBS Goku Post BoG - 118.25 sextillion c

SSJ Goku - 5.9125 Septillion c

SSJ2 and SSJ3 - At least 5.9125 Septillion c, likely far higher

SSJG Goku - At least 295.625 Septillion c, likely far higher

Pre-Goku Black Saga SSJB Goku - At least 14.78125 Octillion c, likely far higher

SSJB KKx10 (U6 Saga) Goku - At least 147.8125 Octillion c, likely far higher
Base Vegetto (Goku Black Saga) - At least 147.8125 Octillion c, likely far higher

SSJB Vegetto and Fusion Zamasu - At least 18.4765625 Decillion c, likely far higher

SSJB Goku from Hit rematch and onwards - At least 147.8125 Octilion c, likely far higher

SSJB KKx20 Goku (beginning of ToP) - At least 2.95625 Nonilion c, likely far higher

Restrained Jiren, UIO1 and UIO2 Goku - At least 18.4765625 Decillion c, likely far higher

SSJB Goku (Post UIO2) - At least 18.4765625 Decillion c, likely far higher

SSJB Goku KKx20 (Post UIO2) - At least 369.53125 Decillion, likely far higher

UIO3 Goku - At least 369.53125 Decillion c, likely far higher

MUI Goku and Limit Broken Jiren - At least 369.53125 Decillion c, likely far higher

Base Gogeta - At least 369.53125 Decillion c, likely far higher

SSJ Gogeta - At least 18.4765625 Undecillion c , likely far higher

SSJB Gogeta - At least 46.19140625 Duodecillion c, likely far higher

SSJ (Full Power) Broly - At least 46.19140625 Duodecillion c, likely far higher

Dunno if i commited any mistakes........so if i did, please point out for correction
 
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The issue is that Whis' speed feat is for flight speed. And the rule of thumb is that basically all DB fighters have far better combat/reaction speed than they do long term flight speed. And everyone should still be above the initial attack speed where the 2-C scaling starts is the even more obvious fact.
 
omegabronic said:
so following this revision, the scaling chain with the "Fusions base >> Fusés maximum" would be:

Suppressed Beerus/Base DBS Goku Post BoG - 118.25 sextillion c

SSJ Goku - 5.9125 Septillion c

SSJ2 and SSJ3 - At least 5.9125 Septillion c, likely far higher

SSJG Goku - At least 295.625 Septillion c, likely far higher

Pre-Goku Black Saga SSJB Goku - At least 14.78125 Octillion c, likely far higher

SSJB KKx10 (U6 Saga) Goku - At least 147.8125 Octillion c, likely far higher
Base Vegetto (Goku Black Saga) - At least 147.8125 Octillion c, likely far higher

SSJB Vegetto and Fusion Zamasu - At least 18.4765625 Decillion c, likely far higher

SSJB Goku from Hit rematch and onwards - At least 147.8125 Octilion c, likely far higher

SSJB KKx20 Goku (beginning of ToP) - At least 2.95625 Nonilion c, likely far higher

Restrained Jiren, UIO1 and UIO2 Goku - At least 18.4765625 Decillion c, likely far higher

SSJB Goku (Post UIO2) - At least 18.4765625 Decillion c, likely far higher

SSJB Goku KKx20 (Post UIO2) - At least 369.53125, likely far higher

UIO3 Goku - At least 369.53125 Decillion c, likely far higher

MUI Goku and Limit Broken Jiren - At least 369.53125 Decillion c, likely far higher

Base Gogeta - At least 369.53125 Decillion c, likely far higher

SSJ Gogeta - At least 18.4765625 Undecillion c , likely far higher

SSJB Gogeta - At least 46.19140625 Duodecillion c, likely far higher

SSJ (Full Power) Broly - At least 46.19140625 Duodecillion c, likely far higher

Dunno if i commited any mistakes........so if i did, please point out for correction
Click to expand...
Everything here is accurate, you just forgot to add decillion for SSJB KKx20 Goku (Post UIO2)

Should I just make this into a blog or wait until the guy who made the DBS speed blog update it?
 
AguilaR202 said:
I disagree with Vegito scaling to Kaioken Goku or SSB in base, fusion is a A*B affair meaning that just because Gogeta in base during broly had surpassed blue levels, the same may not apply to Vegito as Goku and Vegeta were considerably weaker then, and unlike the manga Base Vegito doesn’t showcase his power vs Zamasu and Goes straight to Blue ( granted that the latter had already beefed himself up)
Click to expand...
Fusion being A * B is made up. It's purely headcanon. Vados, for instance, says Kefla's power is Kale's plus Caulifla's, then multiplied by tens of times
 
Ednaxel2 said:
Everything here is accurate, you just forgot to add decillion for SSJB KKx20 Goku (Post UIO2)

Should I just make this into a blog or wait until the guy who made the DBS speed blog update it?
Click to expand...
i am the one who made the blog, i just need to have the values for the scaling chain aproved and i can edit it
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Fusion being A * B is made up. It's purely headcanon.
Click to expand...
It is not.
seg-potara.png

"On p.63 it describes the Potara fusion as being closer to multiplication rather than simple addition in the way it increases power. A graphical depiction of this infers that Vegetto’s battle power is equivalent to Goku’s battle power multiplied by Vegeta’s. Also according to the introduction of the Super Exciting Guide′s training section, all the information in it is based on data that was supervised by Toriyama, though we have no idea how extensive this supervision was."
 
AguilaR202 said:
I disagree with Vegito scaling to Kaioken Goku or SSB in base, fusion is a A*B affair meaning that just because Gogeta in base during broly had surpassed blue levels, the same may not apply to Vegito as Goku and Vegeta were considerably weaker then, and unlike the manga Base Vegito doesn’t showcase his power vs Zamasu and Goes straight to Blue ( granted that the latter had already beefed himself up)
Click to expand...
Kefla who is made up of Caulifla and Kale, both who are far weaker than Base Goku and Base Vegeta, is still stronger than God Goku in Base
 
The_Yellow_Topaz said:
It is not.
seg-potara.png

"On p.63 it describes the Potara fusion as being closer to multiplication rather than simple addition in the way it increases power. A graphical depiction of this infers that Vegetto’s battle power is equivalent to Goku’s battle power multiplied by Vegeta’s. Also according to the introduction of the Super Exciting Guide′s training section, all the information in it is based on data that was supervised by Toriyama, though we have no idea how extensive this supervision was."
Click to expand...
Compared to what Vados says about Kefla, though, this begs the question of what's more accurate. Though it's also worth noting that I believe it was said that Vegito is superior to a hypothetical Gokhan (despite Gohan being superior to Vegeta at the time) due to Goku and Vegeta's rivalry bringing out even greater power.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Compared to what Vados says about Kefla, though, this begs the question of what's more accurate. Though it's also worth noting that I believe it was said that Vegito is superior to a hypothetical Gokhan (despite Gohan being superior to Vegeta at the time) due to Goku and Vegeta's rivalry bringing out even greater power.
Click to expand...
A+B*(20-90x) is a terrible downgrade for the kind of boost the fusion seemingly gives.
 
I mean yeah, but I dunno which one is more accurate here

Regardless though, Base Vegito should be superior to SSB Goku and Vegeta, given the precedent for this sorta thing for fusions
 
The_Yellow_Topaz said:
Kefla who is made up of Caulifla and Kale, both who are far weaker than Base Goku and Base Vegeta, is still stronger than God Goku in Base
Click to expand...
Didn’t they AD to Gokus level overtime?
Whatever gap was there between Caulifla and Goku couldn’t be substantial because he was having to AD in response.
 
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