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Another DBZ upgrade, this time for Yajirobe
- Thread starter Vizer04
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Regardless of if you wanted to call it stronger or not:
A) Your arguments against just earlier were how Vegeta stomped Yajirobe, so that's not viable, even though the weaponry had nothing to do with Yajirobe's own physical prowess + skill against Vegeta's
B) Yajirobe cut the armour and slightly sliced Vegeta. If you look at the slash mark, you can see he didn't cut all the way. Its the same with cutting anything. If you don't cut where you need to in order to slice something in half, of course it'll still be in tact
A) Your arguments against just earlier were how Vegeta stomped Yajirobe, so that's not viable, even though the weaponry had nothing to do with Yajirobe's own physical prowess + skill against Vegeta's
B) Yajirobe cut the armour and slightly sliced Vegeta. If you look at the slash mark, you can see he didn't cut all the way. Its the same with cutting anything. If you don't cut where you need to in order to slice something in half, of course it'll still be in tact
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It's basically Yajirobe's sword scales, not Yajirobe himself
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No. A crippled vegeta destroyed yajirobi. Only his katana scales.
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To clarify; not that the sword itself is Planet Level; more like, he is able to damage stronger opponents by using his sword. In this case, Planet Level is his demonstrable limit.
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He got one slice in and called it a day? Why did he just let himself get his ass beat, I think he knows there's no way he could actually damage Vegeta while he's not off guard. My argument is that tail doesn't scale to durability and the armor thing is an inconsistency. You have also never explained why Vegeta called himself a fool for not going for the tail initially when he wasn't doing any damage. You say because he could have ended the fight early, but its clearly because he had no way of damaging him. He repeats to himself a lot that he has to go for the tail when he could not do anything to Gohan. This is also supported by the fact that Puar was able to cut off Goku's tail instead of calling it PIS. Say what you want about the armor thing, you could still scale Yajirobe to planetary off of that even though I think its an inconsistency that wasn't accounted for, but there's no way Yajirobe scales to oozaru Vegeta with katana
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With Katana is reasonable.
Either that, or the armour is more vulnerable to slicing attacks, but I don't think there's any evidence to suggest it's specifically more vulnerable. That being said, I do think there's some element of elasticity involved and Vegeta is a little more durable than his armour. I'm not saying it isn't 5-B, though.
Also, tails have consistently been removed quite easily, and Great Ape Vegeta is an order of magnitude above normal Vegeta (even though he was a little weakened), so I don't buy the tail logic.
Either that, or the armour is more vulnerable to slicing attacks, but I don't think there's any evidence to suggest it's specifically more vulnerable. That being said, I do think there's some element of elasticity involved and Vegeta is a little more durable than his armour. I'm not saying it isn't 5-B, though.
Also, tails have consistently been removed quite easily, and Great Ape Vegeta is an order of magnitude above normal Vegeta (even though he was a little weakened), so I don't buy the tail logic.
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Yajirobe immediately panicked after that, likely because he thought the cut would've done him in along with the fact that he knew Vegeta was well above his level. Yajirobe's durability is not 5-B.
Except I did explain it....again, I have to keep repeating myself. No tail means no Oozaru transformation. Simple as that. The series has made it very clear that it's the key to becoming an Oozaru, along with a Moon. Vegeta was not only physically tired, but as we've seen from Krillin against Frieza, the Kienzan can be used to harm opponents greater than the user themselves
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Yeah but why would Vegeta want to go for the tail if it has the same durability as Gohan? He wasn't able to damage Gohan in anyway. It's not like Vegeta said he's a fool because he didn't use the kienzan, We even see when Vegeta gets the idea to use the kienzan against Gohan when he says one last attack. All context clues point to Vegeta thinking and knowing that the tail is a weaker part
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That isn't really the implication of the context, and again, you're totally disregarding both of my points.
1. Why would Vegeta go in for rapid physical against an Oozaru when he knows he can cut off the connection to one with a ranged attack? This isn't about weak points. It's about simple strategy.
2. You aren't addressing the the Kienzan is capable of harming greater opponents.
1. Why would Vegeta go in for rapid physical against an Oozaru when he knows he can cut off the connection to one with a ranged attack? This isn't about weak points. It's about simple strategy.
2. You aren't addressing the the Kienzan is capable of harming greater opponents.
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Yes, but Vegeta did not know to use the kienzan at first, that was my point in saying that we see when he gets the idea. If he had the idea all along, with its ability to harm greater opponents he should have tried it against an immobile transforming gohan unless he sees that Gohan as stronger than the tail. With vegeta not being able to do damage to Gohan and having no idea of the kienzan, there would be no reason for him to start calling himself an idiot because he didn't go for the tail because he can not harm Gohan anyway. If you use the argument that he knew he could have used the kienzan against the tail at first, why didn't he simply slice Gohan while he was transforming?
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1. Vegeta was able to tell that if Nappa didn't dodge the Kienzan, he would've been cut in half. I'm casting doubt on Vegeta not at least assuming it's potency can become greater than it's user's power
2. Why would Vegeta use a Kienzan up close to an immobile transforming Gohan? That's a good way to leave himself open long enough
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Come on did you see how fast he charged it he would have easily killed Gohan
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I don't think it's all that simple. You have to consider the transformation was something Vegeta had only a brief moment to react to, meaning his response of several punches could be viewed as a spur of the moment action. Plus, I don't think charging that attack right next to the guy who's about to grow to a kaiju level size will ultimately be all that much of a good idea
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It would definitely be a good idea seeing as it could one shot him lol there's no reason for himself to call himself a dumbass for not going for the tail if he could one shot him either way
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Using anime timeframes it literally takes Gohan over 20 seconds from the point of Vegeta noticing to transform. It takes Vegeta <3 seconds to charge the kienzan
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We can use timeframes lol or else dbz wouldn't even be ftl I'm pretty sure. We use it for Piccolo moonbust
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You mean this one? This is used for Toei DBZ, not manga.
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Mental gymnastics is a stretch. The tail is a part of his body and in the Oozaru form, it's no lighter than it was before.
Here's another difference though. That's the timeframe for a calc. A specific feat. Toei panning out a shot for 20 seconds with Vegeta not doing anything in that time isn't VS applicable
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Vegeta has time to stop beating up Yajirobe, run over to Gohan, moan about how hes too late, punch him 12 times, Goku and Krillin both talk, then Vegeta talks about the tail, Gohan yells, and then he attacks. Vegeta charges up and throws the Kienzan at Gohan without giving Gohan enough time to land a single attack on him which he was about to do. Its quite obvious how much more time Vegeta has
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Yeah, but thats LS not AP
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Can you explain more? Also if there's no supporting feats for tail scaling to durability, why call Puar PIS?
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Tear is a lot different than cut, Puar cut it off not tear it off. Yes Puar is feat-less but that doesn't stop us from saying hes like weaker than Yamcha. If we take cutting off a tail as an AP feat Puar would outscale the entire 21st budokai which he clearly doesn't.
EmilioRory10
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Isn't that an Argument from Incredulity?
Also that's literally how power cliffing works in Dragon Ball
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I guess ill find a supporting feat for Puar not scaling to High 8-C and also no it's not power cliffing as this feat actually happened before the 21st budokai. But as a genuine question not trying to be snarky but have you watched og dragon ball?
EmilioRory10
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His feats/anti-feats include not being able to damage brick or steel (Goku and Yamcha couldn't either, but the former did manage to punch through the brick with his Kamehameha), getting overwhelmed by Pilaf and his gang, defeating bat Fangs, and repeatedly defeating Oolong.
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