Anihilaarg 2-C and EE upgrade

[Greenshifter]

An Anihilaarg is used to create and destroy entire universes in Ben 10.

The word entire can be used because Starbeard mentioned Alien X recreating the entire universe.

Starbeard: Ben Tennyson. Did you think you would escape our notice when you utilized your Celestialsapien form, Alien X, to recreate the entire universe and everything in it?

And because the Anihilaarg is essentially the Big Bang.

Now it makes sense for the Anihilaarg which creates things in a void, to return the universe to a void upon use and thus has Existence Erasure.

Now Ben says the following:

Ben: No time for banter. I'm fighting for my life here and your lives too. If Alien X loses, the whole universe is lost, permanently.

Ben: Disappointment?! That's the universe! It's everything I know! It's everything there is!

Which implies 2 things: 1) Ben fully believes that Celestialsapiens are capable of undoing his creation of the universe which would be EE'ing it back to its void-state.

2) The whole universe and everything there is implies that everything Ben has ever known is at stake here this includes the following (inhales): Ben prime's timeline, The Null Void, Ledgerdomain, Dagon's dimension and all 99 other dimensions he enslaved, Dimension 12 (don't know if this one is a timeline or a dimension) and all timelines.

Per lowball we can assume that only Ben prime's timeline, the Null Void, Ledgerdomain and Dagon's 100 dimensions (and possibly Dimension 12) are referenced because other timelines are generally referenced to as other universes (such as by Servantis), I think.

Another piece of evidence is Gwen guessing that Servantis could have sensed the recreation of the universe, which is kinda hard to do when you're in a dimension that wasn't affected (The Null Void).

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Im not seeing how this is 2-C. What proves the Annilaargh was going to destroy these realms all at once?

 

[Greenshifter]

The fact that we see the erasure literally expand, you might as well argue the Anihilaarg is not low 2-C if you're gonna go that route.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

But, again, how does the erasure expanding prove all of these worlds were simuntaneously going to be destroyed?

You can't become 2-C unless you destroy multiple space-time continuums all at once.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Question, are these other realms universe in size? If the size for them isn't stated then we don't assume they are universe in size.

 

[Greenshifter]

Isn't this the same basically as an omnidirectional blast which destroys multiple timelines? You might as well argue it's not 3-A or low 2-C because the universe was not destroyed all at once.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I mean ive made that argument before but it has little to do with this particular discussion.

Even if its the same as an omnidirectional blast, that still wouldn't be 2-C if you can't prove these worlds were all going to be destroyed at once rather than one by one.

Also, what Griffin said. Are they universal in size?

 

[Greenshifter]

@LordGriffin Dagon's dimension is an alternate universe so this one absolutely yes and the dimensions he conquers should be as well. Ledgerdomain is responsible for all life-force in the multiverse, the Null Void is a connection point between Ben's universe and Rex's universe which the latter is assumed to be universe sized since it's another show but I probably can't use that logic just yet. There might be more to this however, I'll go check with my Ben 10 cosmology expert and I think Door knows a lot about this too.

I will be going to sleep now so it could be a while before I respond again.

Edit: Discord is down, guess I'll have to be patient, good night!

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Dagon's dimension is an alternate universe so this one absolutely yes and the dimensions he conquers should be as well.

Unless he only conquers universes then no. Only the one stated to be an alternitve universe counts as far as I know. The others would only be "possibly", Still 2-C without them.

Ledgerdomain is responsible for all life-force in the multiverse.

I don't see how that makes it the size of a universe, that makes it sound like it's multiversal in size.

the Null Void is a connection point between Ben's universe and Rex's universe which is assumed to be universe sized since it's another show but I probably can't use that logic just yet.

Not sure about this one. Being a connection point doesn't mean it's a universal in size.

I'll wait for more comments given my knowledge on Ben 10 is pretty much non existent since I haven't watched it in so long.

 

[EpicCookie12342]

The thing is that the Null Void and all those other dimensions aren't part of Ben's Universe. Dimensions in Ben 10 are Universes that are not part of the Ben timestream, they are their separate Universes plus the Null Void can be accessed by any Universe as well as Legerdomain. Also Dimension 23 isn't really a dimension for some reason it is just called that, no clue why.

Is a Seperate Universe

Can be accessed anywhere in the Multiverse

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Not all dimensions are automatically universal in size, they need to be proven to be that big.

 

[EpicCookie12342]

I know I was just saying there is no way the Anihilaarg destroyed all those dimensions with my reasons above

 

[EpicCookie12342]

Also technically they are universal in size since they are universes they are just called dimensions because they aren't connected to the Ben timestream

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

The Null Void is mentioned once to be "endless" but dont think that will fly, LedgerDomain's size is unknown afaik. The dimensions conquered by Diagon are most likely universes, due to Azmuth in the same sentence refering to their universe as their dimension, when he said Diagon had conquered 99 dimensions. But again, dont think that's sufficient evidence.

@epiccookie Kevin considers the Null Void part of the universe, he didnt think anything but the Universe existed, even though he had been in the Null Void for years.

 

[EpicCookie12342]

@epiccookie Kevin considers the Null Void part of the universe, he didnt think anything but the Universe existed, even though he had been in the Null Void for years.

Just because Kevin thought it was part of the Universe doesn't mean it was plus this was before the Ben team found out about the Multiverse

 

[Greenshifter]

Servantis also presumably sensed the recreation of the universe, which is hard to do if you aren't affected.

 

[Greenshifter]

It's also unclear if we should take DJW's retcon at face-value but either the Null Void is endless as stated in "Voided" and created by the Galvan or it's an alternate dimension just like those other alternate dimensions aka Dagon's universe.

This is Azmuth's statement regarding Dagon: Listen carefully. The creatures you battle now are nothing compared to their master. He has enslaved a hundred dimensions and now seeks to enslave ours. Should he gain a foothold here, our entire universe will fall. When the Diagon comes, you must destroy him.

 

[Greenshifter]

Here is a statement of mana being multi-dimensional whatever that may mean in this context: (03:56) "The Ultimate Enemy Part 2"

and here is Gwen calling Dagon's universe a parallel dimension: (04:30) "A knight to remember". (we know it's Dagon universe cause he is sealed in there I think and George, Ben and Vilgax fight there for a bit in a later episode, unless he is sealed somewhere else)

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

best not to link pirated video sites

 

[Greenshifter]

Then we have a problem for my 2-page long ability revision, on the other hand by that time we're on an external forum.

 

[Greenshifter]

Well Door you've really gone and done it this time haven't you OvO?