An Electrifying Battle Of Man And Mouse (Enel vs. Pikachu)

[Starter_Pack]

Within the vast expanse of Viridian Forest, a bolt of lightning struck within the heart of the forest, knocking over many trees and injuring many Pokémon that had been existing peacefully in the woods. Stepping over the bodies of these creatures, a man smiled and thrust his golden staff into the ground. "Hmm, I seem to have missed my target," he said to himself thoughtfully, expanding the radius of his vision and noticing the city of Pewter in the distance, his original target. "My aim is usually never that bad. Something must have redirected my powers, but what?"

Suddenly, emerging from the brush, a yellow mouse-like creature glared at him, sparks emerging from its cheeks. The man cocked his head to the side casually. "What's with you, pest? I have no time to play with the likes of you, as I must lay claim to my new kingdom." The Pikachu shot forth a powerful electric shot in his direction, to which he dodged without any effort. "You dare attack me, you rodent?! And with some meager copy of my own power? Very well, I will show you what happens when you defy the will of God!"

In the blue corner, we have Enel from One Piece, and in the red corner, we have Pikachu from Pokémon.

• This is a battle to the death or incapacitation.
• Neither character are aware of each other beforehand, and there is no prep time.
• Neither character are allowed any outside help.
• Pikachu is allowed all available equipment, and Enel's 6-C abilities are restricted.
• This battle takes place in Viridian Forest, giving Pikachu the home-field advantage.
• Due to the similar feats from which each character scales from, speed will not be equalized.

With all this being said, let the debate begin!

• Lightning Mouse: 0
• Lightning God: 1 (Mickey1940)
• Inconclusive: 1 (noninho)

 

[Da3ggman]

Pikachu can't hurt Enel; stomp.

 

[noninho]

Double Team+Agility (and maybe small size type 0 fits here too) = Pikachu is now hard as hell to hit

NPI guarantees Enel's Elemental Intangibility is not a thing here

As Pikachu's profile is listing Electricity Absorption and not mentioning his physical attacks paralyze the enemies, we can understand Pikachu has his hidden ability Lightning Rod, which makes all electrical attacks go directly to him, gives him Immunity to Electric attacks and on the 6 first times Pikachu's hit by an electrical attack his Special Attack gets upped by one stage (in Pokémon each stage is a 0,5x upgrade or downgrade, meaning when he gets hit the 6th time all his attacks that aren't physical will have a 4x amp. It's specifically 6 stages as it's the game cap for all buffs and debuffs)

I can't see Enel ending Pikachu as the mouse can just become too fast for Enel to hit and it's immune to electrical attacks (i'd argue for Busoshoku but Enel doesn't have it lmao) and Pikachu has access to healing (dunno exactly how, but I'm not 100% knowledgeable in Pokémon here in the site and it's listed on the profile so... yeah).

I can't see Pikachu ending Enel as Intermediate Kenbunshoku is amazing for predicting and/or dodging and sensing everything and even if Pikachu's able to hit Enel, the most potent attack is his Z-move that, with all buffs, is 80,000,000 volts (dunno how many coulombs (calculation group guys, heeeeeelpppppp) so I can't say how many Joules it'd be equal to. Oh yeah, it's that many volts cuz it's 10 million times 2 via Light Ball and times 4 after those 6 procs I spoke above, equaling 80 million*) while Enel can use a 200,000,000 volts attack and even if Enel takes this damage he has High regen.

Both of them have the same stamina tier, a hard time hitting the other and healing/regen.

Voting incon




*if you go 100% mode, you can say Catastropika's 210 Base Power does more volts but you'd be comparing to 10mil-volt-thunderbolt's 195 Base Power...if we go by 2 simple Rule-Of-Threes (Regra de Três in PTBR, dunno if that's the name in english) each Base Power is ≈51.282 volts meaning Catastropika's doing 10.769.220 volts in base and 86.153.760 volts in total. wooooooow.

 

[LaserPrecision]

(in Pokémon each stage is a 0,5x upgrade or downgrade, meaning when he gets hit the 6th time all his attacks that aren't physical will have a 3x amp.

Stage 6 is a 4x increase, not a 3x increase. Just a minor correction. Each stage is a 1.5x increase, not 0.5. The amps are additive, not multiplicative.

 

[noninho]

Stage 6 is a 4x increase, not a 3x increase. Just a minor correction. Each stage is a 1.5x increase, not 0.5. The amps are additive, not multiplicative.

Oh yeah, I miscounted, thank you.
Lemme edit, but the point still stands

 

[Mickey1940]

As much as I agree with everything stated above, there's still a nonzero chance that Enel can put Pikachu down with physicals before he boosts to oblivion. Enel should be smart enough to realize that Lightning Rod will render his lightning useless, so he could land physical blows before Pikachu starts boosting, therefore injuring Pikachu and decreasing his stamina long term due to those injuries

It's pretty unlikely that this will happen but it definitely could

so with that in mind, I'm voting Enel

 

[LaserPrecision]

As much as I agree with everything stated above, there's still a nonzero chance that Enel can put Pikachu down with physicals before he boosts to oblivion. Enel should be smart enough to realize that Lightning Rod will render his lightning useless, so he could land physical blows before Pikachu starts boosting, therefore injuring Pikachu and decreasing his stamina long term due to those injuries

It's pretty unlikely that this will happen but it definitely could

so with that in mind, I'm voting Enel

I don't really have an opinion on the match-up Since I know nothing about One Piece, but Pikachu can boost his own speed with Agility. Doesn't need to be shocked to gain that boost. Agility raises speed 2 stages with each use (2x increase the first time, 3x the next use, 4x speed the next use). Dunno how much that'd help, but that's smth Pikachu loves using a lot.

 

[Mickey1940]

I don't really have an opinion on the match-up Since I know nothing about One Piece, but Pikachu can boost his own speed with Agility. Doesn't need to be shocked to gain that boost. Agility raises speed 2 stages with each use (2x increase the first time, 3x the next use, 4x speed the next use). Dunno how much that'd help, but that's smth Pikachu loves using a lot.

except that's Ash's Pikachu who uses it a lot

this is a wild Pikachu

who just uses random shit

 

[LaserPrecision]

except that's Ash's Pikachu who uses it a lot

this is a wild Pikachu

who just uses random shit

I wasn't talking about Ash's Pikachu. I was referring to the games. Running an agility Pikachu is normal for both trainers and in the wild from what I recall. That or an evasive move sometimes? I can't recall...

 

[Mickey1940]

I wasn't talking about Ash's Pikachu. I was referring to the games. Running an agility Pikachu is normal for both trainers and in the wild from what I recall. That or an evasive move sometimes? I can't recall...

that's still true but like I mentioned before, it's still a nonzero chance that Enel can land a hit before Pikachu starts blitzing him into oblivion

basically, the reason why people voted Incon is cuz Enel can't be hurt by anything while Pikachu can't be caught by physicals, and since they have identical stamina they just tire each other out. However, if Enel lands any attack, he'll end up outlasting, which isn't impossible to do since we don't know what Pikachu starts with

 

[noninho]

we don't know what Pikachu starts with

Double Team. 100%
After he start his "harder-to-hit-and-faster protocol" he may try Tail Whip to debuff his enemy's defense, try a hit, and start what I called out for a incon.

Of course, it's not impossible that Kenbunshoku helps before Pikachu outspeeds even that...just so improbable that I'd rather vote incon.

 

[Starter_Pack]

Came back after that whole stomp declaration kinda bummed me out to see actual discussion, which I am pretty happy to see.

Also, as a note, not only can Pikachu buff himself with evasiveness and speed, but he can also reduce Enel's stats through moves like Charm and Tail Whip, as well as dishing confusion via Sweet Kiss.

Oh, and on top of that, Pikachu has Wish, so even if Enel manages to hit it, it can just heal it off.

Still, gonna count the previously stated votes, which I am pretty sure was one for Enel and one for Incon.

 

[Da3ggman]

Okay but like

What stops Enel from just...regenerating infinitely? I know Pikachu's ass ain't got High Regen Negation.

 

[noninho]

Stamina. Both can heal somehow and have Superhuman stamina...

Okay but like

What stops Enel from just...regenerating infinitely? I know Pikachu's ass ain't got High Regen Negation.

 

[Da3ggman]

Stamina. Both can heal somehow and have Superhuman stamina...

Enel's regeneration works even while he is asleep, so I don't think that's gonna work.

 

[noninho]

Enel's regeneration works even while he is asleep, so I don't think that's gonna work.

They can be healed but tired..?
Like, they're both 100% uninjured just got tired from trying to kill each other, which none of them can do, hence why the match is incon.

 

[Imaginym]

• Pikachu is allowed all available equipment, and Enel's 6-C abilities are restricted.

If this is Pikachu's 6-C Key, & I'm reading the profile right....

Tier: 8-C | At most Low 7-B, far higher with 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt, higher with Catastropika and with a Light Ball | High 7-A | High 7-A, higher with Stoked Sparksurfer | 6-C
Key: Pichu | Pikachu | Raichu | Alolan Raichu | Gigantamax Pikachu

This seems to be for Gigantamax Pikachu. (IDK why it doesn't mention Dynamax Raichu. & if you're wondering, Gigantamax is the "unique" kind some species get, Dynamax is the kind all Pokemon get.)

But isn't Gigantamax/Dynamax temporary? & doesn't it overwrite moves with Max Moves while in effect?

 

[noninho]

If this is Pikachu's 6-C Key, & I'm reading the profile right....

I think we have an interpretation problem, mate!

See, enel's profile says

Low 7-B, higher with Amaru, potentially 6-C with Environmental Destruction

And that OP phrase you got is restricting the 6-C stuff Enel can do, not claiming we're using 6-C Pikachu here!

Pikachu is allowed all available equipment, and Enel's 6-C abilities are restricted.

Then if we're using Pikachu, who's the second key in his profile, also 7-B...
This is fair and square!

 

[Imaginym]

I think we have an interpretation problem, mate!

See, enel's profile says

And that OP phrase you got is restricting the 6-C stuff Enel can do, not claiming we're using 6-C Pikachu here!


Then if we're using Pikachu, who's the second key in his profile, also 7-B...
This is fair and square!

Oh okay! My mistake! Thanks for the clarification!

BTW, I assume we're assuming Pikachu only has 1 of its abilities?

 

[Da3ggman]

Sorry that it took so long to respond, but here we go.

Double Team+Agility (and maybe small size type 0 fits here too) = Pikachu is now hard as hell to hit

Enel's Observation Haki is more than enough to easily bypass any sort of minor speed advantage or doubles (Bro can read minds and see everything across an entire island lmao).

NPI guarantees Enel's Elemental Intangibility is not a thing here

Just because Pikachu affect him doesn't mean it will actually do anything

Apoo could affect Kizaru's light body, however, since he cannot his true body, Kizaru simply reformed without any damage. In short, even if Pikachu can touch and affect his lighting, he can't actually hurt him.

As Pikachu's profile is listing Electricity Absorption and not mentioning his physical attacks paralyze the enemies, we can understand Pikachu has his hidden ability Lightning Rod, which makes all electrical attacks go directly to him, gives him Immunity to Electric attacks and on the 6 first times Pikachu's hit by an electrical attack his Special Attack gets upped by one stage

This is fair, however, Enel in character will immediately start beating the shit out of anybody who his lightning doesn't effect with his giant golden pole, so Pikachu likely won't get that full buff.

I can't see Enel ending Pikachu as the mouse can just become too fast for Enel to hit and it's immune to electrical attacks (i'd argue for Busoshoku but Enel doesn't have it lmao) and Pikachu has access to healing (dunno exactly how, but I'm not 100% knowledgeable in Pokémon here in the site and it's listed on the profile so... yeah).

Enel's precognition and mind reading are more than enough to get around someone being faster than him. Also, how good is pikachu's healing? Is it enough to heal the broken bones and crushed body that Enel will give him with his monstrous Lifting Strength advantage (Class G vs Class K )?

I can't see Pikachu ending Enel as Intermediate Kenbunshoku is amazing for predicting and/or dodging and sensing everything and even if Pikachu's able to hit Enel, the most potent attack is his Z-move that, with all buffs, is 80,000,000 volts (dunno how many coulombs (calculation group guys, heeeeeelpppppp) so I can't say how many Joules it'd be equal to. Oh yeah, it's that many volts cuz it's 10 million times 2 via Light Ball and times 4 after those 6 procs I spoke above, equaling 80 million*) while Enel can use a 200,000,000 volts attack and even if Enel takes this damage he has High regen.

Enel won't take any damage from any Lightning attacks, since he is literally made of lightning (not that Pikachu can harm him in the first place).

Both of them have the same stamina tier, a hard time hitting the other and healing/regen.

Enel's healing doesn't require any stamina, while Pikachu's does. Enel could literally stand still for as long as he wants, waiting for Pikachu to tire out, and he would be unfazed.

Oh, and on top of that, Pikachu has Wish, so even if Enel manages to hit it, it can just heal it off.

How good is the healing, and how many times can he do it? If its anything less than infinitely, its going to lose to Enel's soon enough.

They can be healed but tired..?
Like, they're both 100% uninjured just got tired from trying to kill each other, which none of them can do, hence why the match is incon.

Pikachu will be tired from trying to hurt Enel (which he won't be able to do), but Enel can just sleep to rest up if he somehow doesn't finish the rat off within a good few hours (extremely unlikely given how busted his Observation Haki is).

 

[noninho]

BTW, I assume we're assuming Pikachu only has 1 of its abilities?

Yes. By the way the profile's written, I guess it's Lightning Rod.

Enel's Observation Haki is more than enough to easily bypass any sort of minor speed advantage or doubles (Bro can read minds and see everything across an entire island lmao).

Being too fast can bypass Kenbunshoku.

Apoo could affect Kizaru's light body, however, since he cannot his true body, Kizaru simply reformed without any damage. In short, even if Pikachu can touch and affect his lighting, he can't actually hurt him.

Apoo is ass APwise when compared to Borsalino, who iirc, like Enel, have a nice regen.
Anti-feat for Apoo/Feat for Borsalino ≠ Pikachu cannot harm Enel

And even if Pikachu can't, so can't Enel lol

This is fair, however, Enel in character will immediately start beating the shit out of anybody who his lightning doesn't effect with his giant golden pole, so Pikachu likely won't get that full buff.

If he gets one or two he's already significantly harder to hit. Enel tries his lighting first which is already giving more time for Pikachu to buff himself. Faster and faster, it becomes more and more probable that yeah, Pikachu gets all of the buffs possible.

Enel's precognition and mind reading are more than enough to get around someone being faster than him.

Again: it is not impossible to become too fast for Kenbunshoku to predict.

Also, how good is pikachu's healing? Is it enough to heal the broken bones and crushed body that Enel will give him with his monstrous Lifting Strength advantage (Class G vs Class K )?

50% of his health bar, not 100% sure on how this translates to vsbw ruleset
Yeah, Enel has a nice LS, but not every strike coming from him apply it as there's Striking Strength and AP for that too.

Also, as this Pikachu's seeing this guy as a huge threat, he'll not let himself be hit and will be buffing himself until he becomes unhittable for Enel.

Enel's healing doesn't require any stamina, while Pikachu's does.

Kinda. It's sorta like a magic he does to wish for more HP

Enel could literally stand still for as long as he wants, waiting for Pikachu to tire out, and he would be unfazed.

Pikachu can do that too, as Enel will be stressed out and try to hit him lol.
Them both have the same level of stamina and even if both stand still, eventually they'll get tired lol

How good is the healing, and how many times can he do it? If its anything less than infinitely, its going to lose to Enel's soon enough.

50% of his health bar; as we're outside a PP logic, yeah, infinitely.

Pikachu will be tired from trying to hurt Enel (which he won't be able to do)

And so will Enel (and so can't him)

but Enel can just sleep to rest up if he somehow doesn't finish the rat off within a good few hours

Pikachu can sleep too lmfao
If they both can't end the other and they get tired and go to sleep, that's incon, mate

 

[Da3ggman]

Being too fast can bypass Kenbunshoku.

True, however the speed gap isn't that fast.

Apoo is ass APwise when compared to Borsalino, who iirc, like Enel, have a nice regen.
Anti-feat for Apoo/Feat for Borsalino ≠ Pikachu cannot harm Enel

This isn't a "He's so tough that I can't hurt him, even if I can touch his light body", this is "I can't even effect him even though I can't touch his light body". Pikachu is in the same situation, where he can interact with his lightning body, but cannot touch Enel's true body, thus meaning he can literally not hurt him no matter what he does.

Also, what kind of NPI does Pikachu have, anyway? Because if its something like being able to hit a ghost, then it wouldn't apply to Elemental stuff.

And even if Pikachu can't, so can't Enel lol

Enel can absolutely hurt him, what are you talking about? He literally has a giant pole that he can turn into a trident lmao.

If he gets one or two he's already significantly harder to hit. Enel tries his lighting first which is already giving more time for Pikachu to buff himself. Faster and faster, it becomes more and more probable that yeah, Pikachu gets all of the buffs possible.

Not at all. Is it likely that he would get one or two buffs off of Enel first tryin lightning? Yeah, definitely. However, as shown in his fight with Luffy, he will absolutely fight without using lightning if he knows it doesn't work. Once he sees and senses/reads Pikachu's mind about lightning not working, he isn't going to get any more buffs off of his moves.

Again: it is not impossible to become too fast for Kenbunshoku to predict.

Speed gap isn't that wide in the first place.

50% of his health bar, not 100% sure on how this translates to vsbw ruleset

Then don't use it.

Yeah, Enel has a nice LS, but not every strike coming from him apply it as there's Striking Strength and AP for that too.

While you're not wrong, the Lifting Strength is so massive that Enel just needs to catch him ONCE and he can pin him down for as long as he wants.

Also, as this Pikachu's seeing this guy as a huge threat, he'll not let himself be hit and will be buffing himself until he becomes unhittable for Enel.

Won't matter for long, since he can't hurt Enel, and eventually he's going to make a mistake that Enel will capitalize on due to his Observation Haki.

And so will Enel (and so can't him)

No he won't? Once again, Pikachu can't even hurt Enel, and it is absolutely in character for Enel to dick around doing nothing (and sleeping) against people who can't bypass his Logia abilities. He literally won't get tired because he won't be doing anything, while Pikachu is going to be trying his hardest to no avail.

Pikachu can sleep too lmfao

Pikachu can't hurt Enel while he's sleeping since his logia abilities are always activated, but Enel sure as Hell can crush Pikachu while he sleeps.

If they both can't end the other and they get tired and go to sleep, that's incon, mate

Pikachu can't end Enel no matter what he does, but Enel only needs one good grab for him to be able to finish him off. It could take hours, but in that time, the wild, untrained Pikachu is going to make a few mistakes, which Enel can easily abuse to his way of victory.

 

[Imaginym]

True, however the speed gap isn't that fast.

This isn't a "He's so tough that I can't hurt him, even if I can touch his light body", this is "I can't even effect him even though I can't touch his light body". Pikachu is in the same situation, where he can interact with his lightning body, but cannot touch Enel's true body, thus meaning he can literally not hurt him no matter what he does.

What's this about a true body?
There's the electricity he is via using his Logia Powers.
& there's his flesh & blood body.
Am I missing something?

Also, what kind of NPI does Pikachu have, anyway? Because if its something like being able to hit a ghost, then it wouldn't apply to Elemental stuff.

Technically, it qualifies for both.
There are Pokemon like:
Gastly, a Ghost/Poison type. Gastly is made of gas, literally stated to use its body to envelop & suffocate prey, & can be dispersed by strong wind because of its gaseous body.
Rotom, a Ghost/Electric type Pokemon, which has a body stated to be "composed of plasma".

Spoiler: Other Pokemon intangibility qualifications of varying kinds

Slugma is living magma. (Not intangible, but Magma might be something some get Elemental Intangibility for in some settings.)
Many Ghost-type Pokemon are interacted with as though intangible on most parts of their bodies in Pokemon Amie & Refresh.
Spiritomb is 108 Souls other than the Keystone that binds them.
Yamask are said to be the spirits of humans interred in graves, with memories of its former life, & the mask supposedly showing the face it had when still human.
Pokemon Ruby: "Dusclops's body is completely hollow—there is nothing at all inside. It is said that its body is like a black hole. This Pokémon will absorb anything into its body, but nothing will ever come back out."
Tentacool, a Water & Poison type:

Ultra Moon	Its body is 99% water. The remaining 1% contains the organ that makes its poison.

Jellicent, a Water & Ghost type:

Sword	Most of this Pokémon's body composition is identical to sea water. It makes sunken ships its lair.

Vaporeon:

Violet	Its cell composition is similar to water molecules. As a result, it can't be seen when it melts away into water.

(Yes, Water isn't fully intangible either, but Elemental Intangibility.)
Regieleki:

Sword	This Pokémon is a cluster of electrical energy. It's said that removing the rings on Regieleki's body will unleash the Pokémon's latent power.
Shield	Its entire body is made up of a single organ that generates electrical energy. Regieleki is capable of creating all Galar's electricity.

Chi-Yu:

Scarlet	It controls flames burning at over 5,400 degrees Fahrenheit. It casually swims through the sea of lava it creates by melting rock and sand.
Violet	The envy accumulated within curved beads that sparked multiple conflicts has clad itself in fire and become a Pokémon.

Chi-Yu is just a bunch of grudge energy, some beads & thousand degree fire. Even if it were a chemical fire, it'd have little substance to be tangible to begin with.
Ultra Necrozma Possible Intangibility (Is made of light)
(IMHO, that makes sense for UN, but we need to hammer out the justification to clarify the reasoning in a CRT at some point.)

Some of these Pokemon are scaled to higher tiers than Pikachu typically are, but in principle, Pokemon should be able to harm them; You don't necessarily need AP/SS to overcome immunities. Not to mention, I think there's some acceptance that Pokemon can be trained to above the tiers they usually are, as with trainers & whatnot.

Not at all. Is it likely that he would get one or two buffs off of Enel first tryin lightning? Yeah, definitely. However, as shown in his fight with Luffy, he will absolutely fight without using lightning if he knows it doesn't work. Once he sees and senses/reads Pikachu's mind about lightning not working, he isn't going to get any more buffs off of his moves.

My memory of the Enel fight isn't perfect, but didn't Enel try several times to hurt Luffy with electricity, increasing the voltage several times in his incredulity that it didn't work on Luffy & a lack of understanding of rubber, which wasn't anywhere in Skypeia?

Not to mention, isn't Enel THE ur-example of a "God complex" in One Piece? Would it not be in-character for him to be indignant & think himself infallible, & disbelieve the idea some small, ankle-biting beast is immune to his divine lightning & he just needs to smite it harder?

Speed gap isn't that wide in the first place.

What is the speed gap anyway, given Speed isn't equalized?

Then don't use it.

Other portrayal of function not available when using game canon only due to canon split. (& most other canons are adaptations of the games anyway.)
Most recent in-game description: "One turn after this move is used, the user's or its replacement's HP is restored by up to half the user's max HP."
In-game useage text:
"[Pokemonnamegoeshere] used Wish!"
At the end of the next turn:
"[Pokemonnamegoeshere]'s wish came true!"
"[ActivePokemonnamegoeshere] regained health!"
If you're wondering why I clarify "Active Pokemon" it may be notable that Wish heals whatever Pokemon is in the user's battle position when the wish "comes true"; If, for example, a Pikachu used Wish & was switched out for Charizard, Charizard would be healed.

IDK if we can consult other canons regarding its functionality, because, again, canon split.

While you're not wrong, the Lifting Strength is so massive that Enel just needs to catch him ONCE and he can pin him down for as long as he wants.

Question. If Enel is made of electricity, & expends stamina to create it, what happens when he tries to hold a Pikachu that automatically absorbs Electricity?

Also, it does have options in this scenario. Play Nice & Charm are Empathic Manipulation. The former reduces ATK by 1 stage, & requires being a lot less restrained than I imagine Enel would try to make Pikachu, & the latter reduces ATK by 2 stages, & could be done with a lot less freedom of movement, like Pikachu might suffer in a grappling scenario.

It is unknown if Pokemon stat stage decrease limitations apply to non-Pokemon, but the known non-positive stat stage modifications go like so:

Stat modifier - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

0 (Unmodified/"Base"): 2/2 or 100%. (Again, unmodified/base)
-1: 2/3 (66.66~%)
-2: 2/4 (50%)
-3: 2/5 (40%)
-4: 2/6 (33.33~%)
-5: 2/7 (28.57~%)
-6: 2/8 (25%)

Diminishing returns, but in a scenario Pikachu where has nothing better to do....

There's also the matter of Sweet Kiss inflicting the Confused status on Enel. Normally requires contact, but if Enel is unwilling to turn himself into Electricity for Pikachu to absorb, & tries to grapple Pikachu.... Not to mention, I doubt he'd expect it. IIRC, his Mantra, despite being a form of Haki, didn't give him visions often. (& if it DID give him a vision, how would he interpret it? "What? This vile vermin is moving its mouth to me? Is it stooping so low as to bite me?!"? What does he do then? Turn into electricity to be absorbed, or break the grapple hold? Or what if it just shows him a vision of what he'd see under the Confused status effect effect's? Seems like a lot of ways it goes wrong, even if he got a vision of it, which I'm incredulous there's precedent for.)

Won't matter for long, since he can't hurt Enel, and eventually he's going to make a mistake that Enel will capitalize on due to his Observation Haki.

Again, speed gap?
I recall Luffy being able to hit Katakuri, a very capable Observation Haki user via using the higher speed of his Snakeman attacks to outpace Katakuri's visions/reflexes.

No he won't? Once again, Pikachu can't even hurt Enel, and it is absolutely in character for Enel to dick around doing nothing (and sleeping) against people who can't bypass his Logia abilities. He literally won't get tired because he won't be doing anything, while Pikachu is going to be trying his hardest to no avail.

Pikachu can't hurt Enel while he's sleeping since his logia abilities are always activated, but Enel sure as Hell can crush Pikachu while he sleeps.

Even if we assume Pikachu does need to continue approaching/attacking Enel, rather than trying to sleep itself.... Electricity Absorption? & if Enel's asleep, isn't that Incapacitated, or in a state where he can't harm Pikachu?

Pikachu can't end Enel no matter what he does, but Enel only needs one good grab for him to be able to finish him off. It could take hours, but in that time, the wild, untrained Pikachu is going to make a few mistakes, which Enel can easily abuse to his way of victory.

I feel calling it "untrained" may not be entirely accurate.
Above Average in battle as Pichu and Pikachu (Pokémon are hard-wired for battle and even in the wild can master many moves
Partial justification because IIRC, there's a CRT with unresolved plans to limit or remove the cross-species Skill/Intelligence scaling.

A couple of moves that may've been neglected for consideration:
Disarming Voice: "Letting out a charming cry, the user does emotional damage to opposing Pokémon. This attack never misses."
The game mechanics of it not missing NLF aside, this is neither physical nor electrical, but empathic damage.
May be worth considering.
Encore can lock a target into typically 3 instances of their last actions, although its sometimes portrayed as 2 to 5.
Funnily enough, since Enel sleeping is an argument, Pikachu could use Electric Terrain, as that also has the effect of preventing any participants grounded from sleeping. Uncertain if it'd work here, though, lol.
Bide endures attacks/waits for 2 to 3 turns, then strikes back with double the power of the damage taken. I wonder if one-shotting Enel might be enough? (Combo with Wish, too.)
Pikachu also gets Nasty Plot, which can boost Sp. Atk +2 Stat Stages per use. Each stat stage above 0 adds 50% of base. This would boost most of its Electric attacks, as well as Disarming Voice.
Emotional damage Enel into submission??

 

[noninho]

True, however the speed gap isn't that fast.

This isn't a "He's so tough that I can't hurt him, even if I can touch his light body", this is "I can't even effect him even though I can't touch his light body". Pikachu is in the same situation, where he can interact with his lightning body, but cannot touch Enel's true body, thus meaning he can literally not hurt him no matter what he does.

Also, what kind of NPI does Pikachu have, anyway? Because if its something like being able to hit a ghost, then it wouldn't apply to Elemental stuff.

Enel can absolutely hurt him, what are you talking about? He literally has a giant pole that he can turn into a trident lmao.

Not at all. Is it likely that he would get one or two buffs off of Enel first tryin lightning? Yeah, definitely. However, as shown in his fight with Luffy, he will absolutely fight without using lightning if he knows it doesn't work. Once he sees and senses/reads Pikachu's mind about lightning not working, he isn't going to get any more buffs off of his moves.

Speed gap isn't that wide in the first place.

Then don't use it.

While you're not wrong, the Lifting Strength is so massive that Enel just needs to catch him ONCE and he can pin him down for as long as he wants.

Won't matter for long, since he can't hurt Enel, and eventually he's going to make a mistake that Enel will capitalize on due to his Observation Haki.

No he won't? Once again, Pikachu can't even hurt Enel, and it is absolutely in character for Enel to dick around doing nothing (and sleeping) against people who can't bypass his Logia abilities. He literally won't get tired because he won't be doing anything, while Pikachu is going to be trying his hardest to no avail.

Pikachu can't hurt Enel while he's sleeping since his logia abilities are always activated, but Enel sure as Hell can crush Pikachu while he sleeps.

Pikachu can't end Enel no matter what he does, but Enel only needs one good grab for him to be able to finish him off. It could take hours, but in that time, the wild, untrained Pikachu is going to make a few mistakes, which Enel can easily abuse to his way of victory.

Just so that neither of us keeps going back and forth on the same stuff or that we keep getting away from misunderstandings:

Pikachu can and will get to a speed where Enel's Kenbunshoku, as impressive as it is, won't work (I forgot to mention back there: there's a move called Agility whose buffs work like that stage stuff I mentioned. Just with that one move he can get 4x faster than Enel, and there are other moves to boost what here in vsbw would count as reaction and travel speeds even further)

Pikachu may not be able to hit Enel with enough force to do something, but knowing how Enel acts, I think in a forest where Pikachu knows the terrain they can both get tired, one from trying and failing at sneak attacks and running, and the other from trying all his might in bojutsu and also from running.
Again, both have the same stamina level and a similar "level of text" to it.

IMO Eventually they'll both get tired and gg.
@Imaginym seems a more competent Pokémon supporter than me, and my vote is already counted, so imma leave this to him

 

[Ryuga21]

Although Pikachu can absorb Enel's electricity, and Pikachu's electrical attacks are ineffective, Enel is not dependent on his fruit to fight. We had an entire arc where he fought someone who was full counter of his fruit, and managed to win at one moment.

For example, Observation Haki would help Enel a lot to land physical attacks, he can transform into lightning to move and fly. Other than that, Enel can manipulate his own staff to turn it into any type of sharp-based weapon. With precog, flight, transformation, and his trident, Enel could impale Pikachu and win like that. Furthermore, Enel is simply tireless, extras fodders from Buggy's crew could fight for 12 hours straight, In fact, if Enel's heart stops, he can simply use his fruit to return to combat almost completely recovered.

 

[Imaginym]

Just so that neither of us keeps going back and forth on the same stuff or that we keep getting away from misunderstandings:

Pikachu can and will get to a speed where Enel's Kenbunshoku, as impressive as it is, won't work (I forgot to mention back there: there's a move called Agility whose buffs work like that stage stuff I mentioned. Just with that one move he can get 4x faster than Enel, and there are other moves to boost what here in vsbw would count as reaction and travel speeds even further)

It should be clarified that 1 Agility is +2 Stat Stages of Speed.

A Stat Stage of 0 is the default, base, unmodified Speed. Each +1 applied to a stat above 0 is 50% of the base.
So 1 Agility adds two instances of 50% of base. It adds +2 Stat Stages.
& to get to the max, it has to get to +6.
It has to get off 3 Agilities.

Put numerically, if Pikachu's Speed were assigned an arbitrary number (Like 256), then each Agility adds 2 instances of 50% of that, or 256 total.
1 Agility use (+2 Speed): 2x Speed. (256 unmodified, +256 from 1st Agility, 512 total)
2 Agility uses (+4 Speed): 3x Speed (256 unmodified, +512 total from 2 Agility uses, 768 total)
3 Agility uses (+6 Speed): 4x Speed (256 unmodified, +768 from 3 Agility uses, 1024 total)
Sorry if that overcomplicates things. No offense meant. Hopefully that helps explain things.

Bottom line, Pikachu needs to Agility 3 times to get to 4x Speed.

Pikachu may not be able to hit Enel with enough force to do something, but knowing how Enel acts, I think in a forest where Pikachu knows the terrain they can both get tired, one from trying and failing at sneak attacks and running, and the other from trying all his might in bojutsu and also from running.

What's bojutsu? I'm presuming the use of a bo/staff?

Again, both have the same stamina level and a similar "level of text" to it.

Justifications for clarification:
Pikachu:
Stamina: Superhuman (The average Pokémon is hardwired for battle and can go on fighting for lots of time despite being injured. Capable of spending a day on foot while fighting hordes of enemies in mystery dungeons with little to no breaks)
Enel:
Stamina: Superhuman (Can battle many fighters for a long time and took several hits from Luffy)

IMO Eventually they'll both get tired and gg.
@Imaginym seems a more competent Pokémon supporter than me, and my vote is already counted, so imma leave this to him

I appreciate the praise, but 2 heads are better than one, & I appreciate a 2nd opinion, or even more beyond that. Scrutinizing logic, & playing devil's advocate is important, so even if we're both supporters of Pokemon, having someone to help fact find & fact check is valuable.

Although Pikachu can absorb Enel's electricity, and Pikachu's electrical attacks are ineffective, Enel is not dependent on his fruit to fight. We had an entire arc where he fought someone who was full counter of his fruit, and managed to win at one moment.

Do you mean against Luffy where he welded a giant golden orb onto Luffy's hand & dropped Luffy off his airship, taking him out of the fight?

For example, Observation Haki would help Enel a lot to land physical attacks, he can transform into lightning to move and fly.

Kudos to the mobility, although I feel that, since the absorption was mentioned (& it can be part of his body & Enel presumably uses Stamina creating electricity or changing his form.), Flying MAY not keep him safe from Pikachu's absorption.

Silver	It raises its tail to check its surroundings. The tail is sometimes struck by lightning in this pose.

LeafGreen	When several of these Pokémon gather, their electricity could build and cause lightning storms.

Ultra Sun	Its nature is to store up electricity. Forests where nests of Pikachu live are dangerous, since the trees are so often struck by lightning.

Pikachu, presumably on the ground, apparently draw in lighting from storm clouds. This isn't common, but neither are thunderstorms or guys made of tons of electricity flying in the sky.

Regarding mobility, Agility says hi. If he flies around or goes high up, there's also the concern of Pikachu using Iron Tail (It gets that by Level Up now, crazily enough.) to attack the trident; If it were to unexpectedly shatter from high up, finding the pieces in a forest wouldn't be easy.
If all that Enel is threatening Pikachu with is a hunk of metal, getting rid of it is an easy conclusion for something to make.

Other than that, Enel can manipulate his own staff to turn it into any type of sharp-based weapon. With precog, flight, transformation, and his trident, Enel could impale Pikachu and win like that. Furthermore, Enel is simply tireless, extras fodders from Buggy's crew could fight for 12 hours straight, In fact, if Enel's heart stops, he can simply use his fruit to return to combat almost completely recovered.

Statistics Reduction & Statistics Amplification make that difficult. Encore can make Enel predictable.
Pikachu has its own healing.
Also citation on Enel being tireless?
& hasn't he shown himself maintain battle damage despite his heart restart?
& as mentioned before, Pikachu also has healing.

BTW, what are the AP/SS/Durability ratings?

 

[Mickey1940]

Double Team. 100%
After he start his "harder-to-hit-and-faster protocol" he may try Tail Whip to debuff his enemy's defense, try a hit, and start what I called out for a incon.

Of course, it's not impossible that Kenbunshoku helps before Pikachu outspeeds even that...just so improbable that I'd rather vote incon.

Why would a wild pikachu start with Double Team right off the bat? Most of the wild pikachu we've seen in the anime just unga bunga electricity off the bat

of course, Pikachu are smart enough to realize that this won't work the first time so they'll probably do smthn else after that, but why would a Pikachu double team unprompted?

 

[Mickey1940]

If this is Pikachu's 6-C Key, & I'm reading the profile right....

Tier: 8-C | At most Low 7-B, far higher with 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt, higher with Catastropika and with a Light Ball | High 7-A | High 7-A, higher with Stoked Sparksurfer | 6-C
Key: Pichu | Pikachu | Raichu | Alolan Raichu | Gigantamax Pikachu

This seems to be for Gigantamax Pikachu. (IDK why it doesn't mention Dynamax Raichu. & if you're wondering, Gigantamax is the "unique" kind some species get, Dynamax is the kind all Pokemon get.)

But isn't Gigantamax/Dynamax temporary? & doesn't it overwrite moves with Max Moves while in effect?

Enel is Low 7B, and he's put against a regular wild Pikachu, not GMax

 

[Mickey1940]

Sorry that it took so long to respond, but here we go.

Enel's Observation Haki is more than enough to easily bypass any sort of minor speed advantage or doubles (Bro can read minds and see everything across an entire island lmao).

Just because Pikachu affect him doesn't mean it will actually do anything

Apoo could affect Kizaru's light body, however, since he cannot his true body, Kizaru simply reformed without any damage. In short, even if Pikachu can touch and affect his lighting, he can't actually hurt him.

This is fair, however, Enel in character will immediately start beating the shit out of anybody who his lightning doesn't effect with his giant golden pole, so Pikachu likely won't get that full buff.

Enel's precognition and mind reading are more than enough to get around someone being faster than him. Also, how good is pikachu's healing? Is it enough to heal the broken bones and crushed body that Enel will give him with his monstrous Lifting Strength advantage (Class G vs Class K )?

Enel won't take any damage from any Lightning attacks, since he is literally made of lightning (not that Pikachu can harm him in the first place).

Enel's healing doesn't require any stamina, while Pikachu's does. Enel could literally stand still for as long as he wants, waiting for Pikachu to tire out, and he would be unfazed.

How good is the healing, and how many times can he do it? If its anything less than infinitely, its going to lose to Enel's soon enough.

Pikachu will be tired from trying to hurt Enel (which he won't be able to do), but Enel can just sleep to rest up if he somehow doesn't finish the rat off within a good few hours (extremely unlikely given how busted his Observation Haki is).

TLDR Pikachu with Agility alone can get up to x4 faster, which stacks on top of Double Team, which makes him 3 times harder to hit (which in a vs battles debate and in the anime is treated as speed), as well as Quick Attack, which in the games can outspeed literally anything with a speed stat due to priority, so it's pretty reasonable to assume that if Pikachu can get all of his buffs, he's perception blitzing Enel forever

 

[Mickey1940]

The speed gap is as follows assuming I'm not misunderstanding anything:

Agility: Up to x4 Speed
Double team: Up to x3 Evasion, or enemies have a 1/3 chance of hitting you
Quick Attack: Outspeeds literally anything with max speed in the games due to prio, in the anime, it blitzes people comparable to you, as Ash's Pikachu did to Leon's Charizard

Considering speed is equalized, Quick Attack is already enough to blitz Enel, while Agility and Double team make it even more difficult

 

[Imaginym]

Why would a wild pikachu start with Double Team right off the bat? Most of the wild pikachu we've seen in the anime just unga bunga electricity off the bat

of course, Pikachu are smart enough to realize that this won't work the first time so they'll probably do smthn else after that, but why would a Pikachu double team unprompted?

Canon split would say anime shouldn't be cited for profiles based on games.
(Double Team also wouldn't work very well, as it just makes afterimages.)

Considering speed is equalized,

It is in fact, not, if I understand right. See here, from the OP:

• Due to the similar feats from which each character scales from, speed will not be equalized.

 

[Ryuga21]

Do you mean against Luffy where he welded a giant golden orb onto Luffy's hand & dropped Luffy off his airship, taking him out of the fight?

Yep.

Kudos to the mobility, although I feel that, since the absorption was mentioned (& it can be part of his body & Enel presumably uses Stamina creating electricity or changing his form.), Flying MAY not keep him safe from Pikachu's absorption.

Can Pikachu absorb living lightning that holds consciousness and life energy? Furthermore, if Pikachu tried to absorb him transformed into lightning, CoO would just warn him and he would return to human form before then.

Regarding mobility, Agility says hi. If he flies around or goes high up, there's also the concern of Pikachu using Iron Tail (It gets that by Level Up now, crazily enough.) to attack the trident

Trying to parry the trident's attacks would be a very favorable situation for Enel, since he is Class G and can paralyze Luffy with one hand, while Pikachu is listed as Class K on it's profile. Btw, I already said that Enel has precog, Pikachu wouldn't be able to hit or counter his attacks because he would know all his movements beforehand.

Statistics Reduction & Statistics Amplification make that difficult. Encore can make Enel predictable.
Pikachu has its own healing.
Also citation on Enel being tireless?
& hasn't he shown himself maintain battle damage despite his heart restart?
& as mentioned before, Pikachu also has healing.

If these first two techniques are short-range abilities, Enel can only move away, and how does Encore interacts with beings that passively has Observation Haki abilities?
I didn't say that he is tireless, but he can energize his heart and come back recovered (in terms of stamina, not damage), in addition to being able to fight for more than 12 hours.

How will Pikachu's healing work after Enel pierces its chest with his trident?

BTW, what are the AP/SS/Durability ratings?

I don't know for sure, but Enel is probably above this level by far.

 

[Da3ggman]

What's this about a true body?
There's the electricity he is via using his Logia Powers.
& there's his flesh & blood body.
Am I missing something?

His true body is his flesh and blood one; however, in order to hit it, you can't merely be able to effect his lighting. Rather, you have to be able to negate it entirely and then jump to the additional step of negating his reforming/regeneration. Otherwise, whether you do, say, cut is lighting body in half, it will just come back to normal like nothing happened, with no damage having been done.

Technically, it qualifies for both.
There are Pokemon like:
Gastly, a Ghost/Poison type. Gastly is made of gas, literally stated to use its body to envelop & suffocate prey, & can be dispersed by strong wind because of its gaseous body.
Rotom, a Ghost/Electric type Pokemon, which has a body stated to be "composed of plasma".

Spoiler: Other Pokemon intangibility qualifications of varying kinds

Slugma is living magma. (Not intangible, but Magma might be something some get Elemental Intangibility for in some settings.)
Many Ghost-type Pokemon are interacted with as though intangible on most parts of their bodies in Pokemon Amie & Refresh.
Spiritomb is 108 Souls other than the Keystone that binds them.
Yamask are said to be the spirits of humans interred in graves, with memories of its former life, & the mask supposedly showing the face it had when still human.
Pokemon Ruby: "Dusclops's body is completely hollow—there is nothing at all inside. It is said that its body is like a black hole. This Pokémon will absorb anything into its body, but nothing will ever come back out."
Tentacool, a Water & Poison type:

Ultra Moon	Its body is 99% water. The remaining 1% contains the organ that makes its poison.

Jellicent, a Water & Ghost type:

Sword	Most of this Pokémon's body composition is identical to sea water. It makes sunken ships its lair.

Vaporeon:

Violet	Its cell composition is similar to water molecules. As a result, it can't be seen when it melts away into water.

(Yes, Water isn't fully intangible either, but Elemental Intangibility.)
Regieleki:

Sword	This Pokémon is a cluster of electrical energy. It's said that removing the rings on Regieleki's body will unleash the Pokémon's latent power.
Shield	Its entire body is made up of a single organ that generates electrical energy. Regieleki is capable of creating all Galar's electricity.

Chi-Yu:

Scarlet	It controls flames burning at over 5,400 degrees Fahrenheit. It casually swims through the sea of lava it creates by melting rock and sand.
Violet	The envy accumulated within curved beads that sparked multiple conflicts has clad itself in fire and become a Pokémon.

Chi-Yu is just a bunch of grudge energy, some beads & thousand degree fire. Even if it were a chemical fire, it'd have little substance to be tangible to begin with.
Ultra Necrozma Possible Intangibility (Is made of light)
(IMHO, that makes sense for UN, but we need to hammer out the justification to clarify the reasoning in a CRT at some point.)

Some of these Pokemon are scaled to higher tiers than Pikachu typically are, but in principle, Pokemon should be able to harm them; You don't necessarily need AP/SS to overcome immunities. Not to mention, I think there's some acceptance that Pokemon can be trained to above the tiers they usually are, as with trainers & whatnot.

All of this proves that he can at least interact with his lightning body itself, but doesn't show that he can injure or harm Enel in any way.

My memory of the Enel fight isn't perfect, but didn't Enel try several times to hurt Luffy with electricity, increasing the voltage several times in his incredulity that it didn't work on Luffy & a lack of understanding of rubber, which wasn't anywhere in Skypeia?

He didn't know of rubber existing, but he would know of things that can absorb electricity like Gold, so an electric rat that isn't effected by his attacks is something he should easily be able to deduce (he also can just read the Pikachu's mind with Observation Haki).

Not to mention, isn't Enel THE ur-example of a "God complex" in One Piece? Would it not be in-character for him to be indignant & think himself infallible, & disbelieve the idea some small, ankle-biting beast is immune to his divine lightning & he just needs to smite it harder?

He might start that way for 2-3 moves like in the Luffy fight, but he is very adept at changing and coming up with new strategies when he realized that the old "Hit em' harder" trick won't work.

What is the speed gap anyway, given Speed isn't equalized?

Pikachu scales to baseline Mach 1000, while Enel scales >>>> above Mach 2900, so easily an initial advantage of around 3x in favor of Enel. So, even if Pikachu were to completely amp his speed to the max, he would (at best) only be like 1.33x faster, which isn't nearly enough to bypass Observation Haki mind reading and precognition.

Other portrayal of function not available when using game canon only due to canon split. (& most other canons are adaptations of the games anyway.)
Most recent in-game description: "One turn after this move is used, the user's or its replacement's HP is restored by up to half the user's max HP."
In-game useage text:
"[Pokemonnamegoeshere] used Wish!"
At the end of the next turn:
"[Pokemonnamegoeshere]'s wish came true!"
"[ActivePokemonnamegoeshere] regained health!"
If you're wondering why I clarify "Active Pokemon" it may be notable that Wish heals whatever Pokemon is in the user's battle position when the wish "comes true"; If, for example, a Pikachu used Wish & was switched out for Charizard, Charizard would be healed.

IDK if we can consult other canons regarding its functionality, because, again, canon split.

I don't really know how to respond to this, but like, do we have a region equivalent to it? That would make things a lot easier to debate with IMO.

Question. If Enel is made of electricity, & expends stamina to create it, what happens when he tries to hold a Pikachu that automatically absorbs Electricity?

Enel can completely control the shape and form of his electric body, so I find it unlikely that pikachu will be able to absorb him (not that it matters, because Enel could just form a perfectly new one from scratch since Pikachu can't effect his true body).

Also, it does have options in this scenario. Play Nice & Charm are Empathic Manipulation. The former reduces ATK by 1 stage, & requires being a lot less restrained than I imagine Enel would try to make Pikachu, & the latter reduces ATK by 2 stages, & could be done with a lot less freedom of movement, like Pikachu might suffer in a grappling scenario.

2 stages isn't going to be enough to decrease the 1000000x disadvantage Pikachu is in with regards to the lifting strength situation. One grab, and the fight is basically over.

There's also the matter of Sweet Kiss inflicting the Confused status on Enel. Normally requires contact, but if Enel is unwilling to turn himself into Electricity for Pikachu to absorb, & tries to grapple Pikachu.... Not to mention, I doubt he'd expect it. IIRC, his Mantra, despite being a form of Haki, didn't give him visions often. (& if it DID give him a vision, how would he interpret it? "What? This vile vermin is moving its mouth to me? Is it stooping so low as to bite me?!"? What does he do then? Turn into electricity to be absorbed, or break the grapple hold? Or what if it just shows him a vision of what he'd see under the Confused status effect effect's? Seems like a lot of ways it goes wrong, even if he got a vision of it, which I'm incredulous there's precedent for.)

Enel is constantly in an electric state, and Pikachu doesn't have any feats of absorbing living lighting with a conscience, will power, and complete control over its form and shape.

Again, speed gap?
I recall Luffy being able to hit Katakuri, a very capable Observation Haki user via using the higher speed of his Snakeman attacks to outpace Katakuri's visions/reflexes.

Speed gap is negligible at best if we give Pikachu his max amp, due to how much Enel scales above his Mach 2900 value.

Even if we assume Pikachu does need to continue approaching/attacking Enel, rather than trying to sleep itself.... Electricity Absorption? & if Enel's asleep, isn't that Incapacitated, or in a state where he can't harm Pikachu?

SBA determines if an opponent can't attack or hurt one for 24 hours, it counts as a loss. But, since Enel doesn't sleep for a full ass day (mostly just dozing off for a few minutes at most in fights), that rule won't really take into effect.

I feel calling it "untrained" may not be entirely accurate.
Above Average in battle as Pichu and Pikachu (Pokémon are hard-wired for battle and even in the wild can master many moves
Partial justification because IIRC, there's a CRT with unresolved plans to limit or remove the cross-species Skill/Intelligence scaling.

Enel can match wits with Luffy, who is a combat genius who can recreate and copy new techniques using different body anatomy on the fly.

A couple of moves that may've been neglected for consideration:
Disarming Voice: "Letting out a charming cry, the user does emotional damage to opposing Pokémon. This attack never misses."
The game mechanics of it not missing NLF aside, this is neither physical nor electrical, but empathic damage.
May be worth considering.

Is it accepted as Durability Negation?

Encore can lock a target into typically 3 instances of their last actions, although it's sometimes portrayed as 2 to 5.
Funnily enough, since Enel sleeping is an argument, Pikachu could use Electric Terrain, as that also has the effect of preventing any participants grounded from sleeping. Uncertain if it'd work here, though, lol.

Tbh Enel would probably either absorb the electrical terrain himself, or just **** off for a few minutes to eat an apple or something lmao. Then, when he senses that it is down with his massive island spanning observation haki, he'll just come back to continue the fight.

Bide endures attacks/waits for 2 to 3 turns, then strikes back with double the power of the damage taken. I wonder if one-shotting Enel might be enough? (Combo with Wish, too.)

Pikachu can't hurt Enel.

Pikachu also gets Nasty Plot, which can boost Sp. Atk +2 Stat Stages per use. Each stat stage above 0 adds 50% of base. This would boost most of its Electric attacks, as well as Disarming Voice.
Emotional damage Enel into submission??

If Disarming Voice is accepted as Durability Negation, then that could work; if it isn't though, then there isn't much the Pikachu can do here.

 

[Imaginym]

His true body is his flesh and blood one; however, in order to hit it, you can't merely be able to effect his lighting. Rather, you have to be able to negate it entirely and then jump to the additional step of negating his reforming/regeneration. Otherwise, whether you do, say, cut is lighting body in half, it will just come back to normal like nothing happened, with no damage having been done.

Does reforming not require the use of Stamina nor creation of element to replace what was dispersed? (Which itself should in theory, require Stamina. I'd assume Logia users aren't infinite batteries of their elements that could provide their elements & never tire of it.)
Either way, that seems notable & good to keep in mind.
Have there genuinely not been instances of Logia users being harmed by non-Haki/Seastone stuff? Similar to how in settings with ki & such (DBZ, infamously.) where they can be harmed when their guard is down?

Pikachu scales to baseline Mach 1000, while Enel scales >>>> above Mach 2900, so easily an initial advantage of around 3x in favor of Enel. So, even if Pikachu were to completely amp his speed to the max, he would (at best) only be like 1.33x faster, which isn't nearly enough to bypass Observation Haki mind reading and precognition.

Good to know.

I don't really know how to respond to this, but like, do we have a region equivalent to it? That would make things a lot easier to debate with IMO.

What do you mean by "region equivalent to it"?

Enel can completely control the shape and form of his electric body, so I find it unlikely that pikachu will be able to absorb him (not that it matters, because Enel could just form a perfectly new one from scratch since Pikachu can't effect his true body).

Not the most important question, but hasn't he always taken just "human form, maybe with some missing parts or parts replaced with electricity"? As opposed to, for example, arms sprouting from the back, legs from shoulders, etc.

2 stages isn't going to be enough to decrease the 1000000x disadvantage Pikachu is in with regards to the lifting strength situation. One grab, and the fight is basically over.

If you'll pardon my saying so, I do wonder that since LS squeezing uses a different form of Strength than Striking, we should try to account for it, but I haven't recalled the math for it in ages.
But yes, big LS gap is big.

Enel can match wits with Luffy, who is a combat genius who can recreate and copy new techniques using different body anatomy on the fly.

What you're responding to here was mostly me disagreeing on the use of the term "untrained", as I felt it may've been a bit misrepresentative of a typical Pokemon in this match.

Is it accepted as Durability Negation?

I do not know, but if the canon split is already in effect -I don't know if it is, but presume so- then there isn't much in the games to contradict its description.
Could seek out the original Japanese description text for the move if you want to scrutinize that aspect of it.

If Disarming Voice is accepted as Durability Negation, then that could work; if it isn't though, then there isn't much the Pikachu can do here.

Do you have an opinion on the matter of Encore?

 

[Imaginym]

I suppose I ought to ask:
Why is harming living elemental intangibility creatures not enough to harm elemental intangibility humans?
In OP or Pokemon, trying to punch smog or fire with an ordinary fist is ineffectual; By this logic, a Logia shouldn't be harmed because you can't really "damage" stuff like that by punching it. Presumably, this is why Logia types are portrayed as immune to conventional attacks.
But Pokemon (& other verses) do have stuff that can harm elemental intangibility beings WITHOUT needing to ALSO negate the EI.
So why does One Piece go that the generally mundane, human flesh & blood body of a Logia is a "true body" (Beyond it being their natural state.) that won't be harmed by things that can genuinely harm EI beings, unlike conventional attacks in IRL & One Piece's world?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Why is harming living elemental intangibility creatures not enough to harm elemental intangibility humans?

Because the first one is their true body and the second one isn't... It's a whole different independent elemental body, separated from the true human body

In OP or Pokemon, trying to punch smog or fire with an ordinary fist is ineffectual; By this logic, a Logia shouldn't be harmed because you can't really "damage" stuff like that by punching it. Presumably, this is why Logia types are portrayed as immune to conventional attacks.

Yes...

Normally It simply passes through them

But also even if you can interact with their logia form (there are ice, forest logias btw), it does no damage to them... shown with kizaru and apoo

Which doesn't do any damage, as their main body and their elemental one is different and separate

身体を砂に変化させ、自在に操る能力。砂状態では身体の原型を保たず、基本的に打撃などの物理攻撃は無効。

The ability to transform one's body into sand and manipulate it at will. In the sand state, the body does not retain its original form, and physical attacks such as blows are basically ineffective.

So you'd need element intang negation so that you can hit their true body and do damage otherwise their logia body will simply reform or regen

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Have there genuinely not been instances of Logia users being harmed by non-Haki/Seastone stuff? Similar to how in settings with ki & such (DBZ, infamously.) where they can be harmed when their guard is down?

no... They can't be harmed even off guarded, these are the only main 3 ways to deal with them

Does reforming not require the use of Stamina nor creation of element to replace what was dispersed? (Which itself should in theory, require Stamina. I'd assume Logia users aren't infinite batteries of their elements that could provide their elements & never tire of it.)

They kinda are... Logia's have shown no stamina issue by using their element... Otherwise it would've already been stated or shown like with law

Aokiji for example has a missing limb and has replaced that limb with an elemental one for like 2 years now

Edit: And also found this showing

 

[That_moron2]

Incon fra

 

[Nierre]

I think I'll vote Incon FRA as well

No way in hell Pikachu is losing to a lightning man, but he can't harm Enel FRA

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

incon?

No way in hell Pikachu is losing to a lightning man

Uhh why? Pikachu's thunder goes up to 10,000,000 Volts while Enel goes up to 200,000,000 volts...

This match is just an Enel stomp... I believe, with Pikachu not being able to do anything... Unless he got any rubbery moves? Is it allowed to use a location with alot of rubber in the area for Pikachu to use?