Alucard (Hellsing) major CRT

[Jinx666]

But TLDR

We shouldnt use Gag feats that dont lead to anything relevant in the story. Looking at a 'handbook' that did absolutely nothing plot worthy later on, and was played for gags about Schrodinger doesnt dismiss the constant role and reminder than he is 'everywhere and nowhere', and was the main being that managed to kill Alucard. He was Majors eyes in the sky.

He isnt omniscient either, he cant know 'everything', he is just everywhere and can find out what hes looking for if he actually bothers to zoom in and has prior knowledge. Does not dismiss Omnipresence, they arent the same thing.
Guessing hes not nigh-omnipresent because he couldnt turn on the remote first try when somewhere in the world existed a 'manual' for it. It just doesnt work since you're constantly trying to act as if Omnipresence relates to intelligence, or that Schrodinger is constantly looking and seeing elsewhere. He hasnt met Alucard or Integra, and the Major only gave him a few distinct roles. So it makes sense he followed recognizable blood within Alucard to see who he was.

Hence why i think its best if we revert the page to how it was. Nigh Omnipresence explains the power Much better than 'instant teleportation'. Thats literally just not it.

 

[Antvasima]

I strongly agree with Random-Helper. Schrödinger does clearly not qualify as being ning-omnipresent according to our standards, and abstract existence also seems unreliable.

Can we drop these arguments now please?

Also, have all the accepted changes here already been applied?

 

[Jinx666]

Nigh Omnipresent in this wikis standards only qualifies for being limited in range to a certain area. It should really address the being of 'everywhere' in a broader more limited sense, such as if the character is limited by what sort of spaces they can travel, like through time.;
'Omnipresence is the property of being present everywhere, whenever and nowhere at the same time, referring to an unbounded presence.'
Schrodinger only misses the whenever, which while theres one point of him being inside a memory, should be fine for the direct meaning of omnipresent, but the nigh clearly shows that the power isnt conventionally accepted omnipresense. Despite thats what Hellsing was going for.

Schrodingers nature is already a stated paradox and an example more of Quantum Immortality. Theres no proper alternative for this on this wiki, but its definitely not Instant Teleportation, which is where i take main issue and would not like to see on the page as it is highly inaccurate to what Schrodinger actually is, even if he isnt Nigh Omnipresent.

I would prefer there is at least a better way of wording it than this, Schrodinger is definitely a being that doesnt encompass a physical form, is constantly stated and made ot be everywhere and nowhere as a paradox existence, and his only things against this are played for gags that don't mean anything other than character expression.
It works on an observation level too like the Schrodinger cat. He has to not be observed in order to move about, or is at least what is suggested by Hellsing, as Schrodinger only teleports away if someone diverts their attention from him.
This ability can enter non tangible planes like a mindscape with ease, as well as shown to be related to the border of reality and existence.
This is definitely not 'Instant Teleportation'. I have already offered alternative ways of naming it, but Nigh Omnipresent definitely seems the best fit for this wikis P&A range.

 

[Antvasima]

As far as I recall, we used to define nigh-omnipresence as being present almost everywhere, such as being an abstract ambodiment of darkness, but we no longer use the ability, and have changed it to multilocation instead. See here:

Multilocation

Multilocation is the ability to exist in multiple places at the same time either across space, time or even both, but not everywhere. Thus, it can be considered a subtype of Omnipresence. The extension of this ability can escalate from occupying the entirety of relatively small areas, such as a...

vsbattles.fandom.com

In any case, Schrödinger is clearly just a walking uncertainty principle, so he does definitely not qualify for either true omnipresence or nigh-omnipresence, and continuing to relentlessly argue for it is not going to get it accepted, just waste the time of everybody involved, which I have very limited amounts available of. My apologies.

 

[Jinx666]

Schrodinger definitely does not go under Multilocation either. He is everywhere but only has one physical body that is percieved as somewhere, he's never shown that body to be in two places at once of the same time, and its more his existence that is everywhere.
He is most definitely 'Everywhere' and 'Nowhere', as it has been constantly reinforced, which goes against Multilocation.

I dont see why being an uncertainty principle disproves nigh-omnipresence. Its definitely a discussion but its usually if Schrodinger is properly omnipresent, which conventionally hes not, but still checks the boxes of 'everywhere', 'nowhere' and not bounded by anything, at least within one universe.
Schrodingers power is a very specific and unique type of power and i would prefer if it was more accurately presented than what is being accepted. This is also going to apply to Alucard too after all.

 

[Antvasima]

Unless Schrödinger can specifically manifest literally everywhere at once rather than via a single small body, he does not qualify according to both our standards and the general definition of the term, no.

My apologies, but you can write a hundred more wall of text replies, and you will still receive the same answer, and I genuinely don't have the time available to continue to argue about it.

Is there anything else left to do here, or should we close this thread?

 

[Jinx666]

Unless Schrödinger can specifically manifest literally everywhere at once rather than via a single small body, he does not qualify according to both our standards and the general definition of the term, no.

My apologies, but you can write a hundred more wall of text replies, and you will still receive the same answer, and I genuinely don't have the time available to continue to argue about it.

Is there anything else left to do here, or should we close this thread?

He can. his physical body is just an avatar thats used. His existence is literally everywhere as an omnipresent being would be conventionally. Everywhere and Nowhere.

I dont see why just you are having the deciding answer either when you have only been observing the conversation and seemingly dont know about Hellsing. This thread was alreayd decided before i could make any of the points which just makes it seem a bit tilted.
Either way, Nigh Omnipresent or not, this isnt an accurate display of the power.

 

[Antvasima]

If it was just an avatar, that is different, but if that was truly the case, he should have had a cosmic scale of size and influence, and not have been quite easily devoured by Alucard.

 

[Jinx666]

If it was just an avatar, that is different, but if that was truly the case, he should have had a cosmic scale of size and influence, and not have been quite easily devoured by Alucard.

This just makes it apparent that you do not understand the context if i may.

He wasnt devoured by Alucard, and alucard doesnt just devour the soul. He merges with those who enter his body, which Schrodinger did unawaringly thanks to Alucard's recklessness of releasing his level 0 seal and absorbing every deceased corpse's blood, and the fact Schrodinger purposefully chose to be absorbed by Alucard to carry out the Majors plan so that they could literally erase Alucard from existence.
Alucard was the one who became the being using Schrodingers power, which wasnt something he could just turn on and off willingly. It was a merging.

This is huge spoiler territory but it seems you have the wrong idea.
Theres no cosmic scale of size confirmed since Hellsing is a grounded series on earth, and Scrodingers physical body likely wouldnt survive in Space (wouldnt kill his being though).
He is literally a physical manifestation of the Schrodinger Cat principle. Quantum Immortality, which would be considered a form of Omnipresence given the fact Schrodinger is constantly reinforced as being everywhere and nowhere

 

[Jinx666]

Here are some links to what actually happened, though they may be missing details

TW/ Blood and all that

 

[Antvasima]

I think that the "everywhere" part seems more like a figure of speech and should be treated as a no limits fallacy without some sort of reliable confirmation that Schrödinger can encompass virtually all of existence at the same time, which is the minimum requirement for such an extreme ability.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Sorry, Antvasima. There are far more fun books you could be reading than my long posts. I'll try to shorten them from here. I personally would say close the thread, but it's your decision, and Jinx666 might have more to say on other things.

Jinx666, I'll do my best to keep it short for your sake as well. The entirety of the evidence pointing to omnipresence or even nigh-omnipresence is a single statement, that he is "everywhere and nowhere". Meanwhile we have three seperate events that contradict omnipresence. Failing to find the book was one. An omnipresent being would be standing wherever the book was as well as everywhere else. The need for Tubalcain's blood to find the meeting was another. An omnipresent being would already be there, as well as everywhere else. Schrodinger being consumed through his blood, indicating his entire being is actually in his body, is the other. An omnipresent being would be in every location and thus would not all be inside his body.

Schrodinger could have shown things to hint at omnipresence the way many divine characters show it: by being in multiple places at once, by knowing what everyone is doing due to being with all of them when it happens, and then by stating that they exist everywhere. Schrodinger does the opposite. He demonstrates that he's not standing with everyone all the time. Omnipresence doesn't fit the things Schrodinger has shown.

I'd love to say his ability was to exist in an ethereal state and project himself wherever he wants. That seems to actually be what was intended. It's annoying that even the ethereal state hasn't been demonstrated. For all we know he is always in the body (that certainly fits with all of him being eaten with his body) and his ability is to move the body anywhere he likes. As much as it doesn't sound right to a Hellsing fan, that fits teleportation.

Alucard was the one who became the being using Schrodingers power, which wasnt something he could just turn on and off willingly.

You don't seem to understand that this even further contradicts omnipresence. If Schrodinger couldn't turn his omnipresence on and off, and the omnipresence means his being exists everywhere, how did he confine the entirety of that being to his body for Alucard to consume? This tells us that he can't turn of his "omnipresence" which means if his soul is everywhere he shouldn't be able to confine it to his body.

 

[Jinx666]

It isnt.
Hes literally the Schrodinger Cat. Its constantly reinforced that hes everywhere and nowhere, which bridges on the plane of existence and reality, he doesnt die or live, as shown in the videos i posted.

Him and his unique nature, was what was used to physically erase alucard into 'imaginary numbers', that seemingly couldnt be brought back, though did so Low-godly regen.
Its definitely not a figure of speech, and while theres limits on his own end, its certainly not overexaggerated. This is what the Hellsing mangaka intended.

 

[Antvasima]

I strongly agree with Random-Helper, and would appreciate if you stop being relentlessly unreasonable and argumentative regarding this issue, Jinx.

I do not understand why it is so hard for you to understand that having the uncertainty principle as a power is not remotely the same as being a conceptual embodiment that literally encompasses all of existence at the same time.

Cease and desist please. This is the official staff evaluation of this issue, and spamming walls of text will only waste the time of everybody else here and get us increasingly annoyed in the process.

 

[Jinx666]

You don't seem to understand that this even further contradicts omnipresence. If Schrodinger couldn't turn his omnipresence on and off, and the omnipresence means his being exists everywhere, how did he confine the entirety of that being to his body for Alucard to consume? This tells us that he can't turn of his "omnipresence" which means if his soul is everywhere he shouldn't be able to confine it to his body.

He can't turn it on or off
He used the physical body that harboured his soul, Alucard absorbed it unknowingly, and then Schrodinger got lost in the many other souls Alucard absorbed.
His entire being was an incorporeal presence that only interacted through his physical form that he could post and plant anywhere he wanted, bordeing reality and existence.
While he was among these many souls, Schrodinger lost himself, which is ehat caused him to not only erase himself but Alucard too, since Alucard inherited the powers.
As the Major put it, he is neither living, dead nor undead.

It wasnt till 30 years that Alucard had to reap every other soul except schrodingers so that Schrodinger could be aware of himself again.
This is why it would be under Nigh-Omnipresent of course, by what the term should encompass as the limitations of not being conventionally omnipresent, but still having that gist of 'everywhere nowhere'.

 

[Antvasima]

Oh for gods' sakes, this is getting ridiculous.

 

[Jinx666]

I strongly agree with Random-Helper, and would appreciate if you stop being relentlessly unreasonable and argumentative regarding this issue, Jinx.

I do not understand why it is so hard for you to understand that having the uncertainty principle as a power is not remotely the same as being a conceptual embodiment that literally encompasses all of existence at the same time.

Cease and desist please. This is the official staff evaluation of this issue, and spamming walls of text will only waste the time of everybody else here and get us increasingly annoyed in the process.

This still isnt accurate whether its Nigh omnipresent or not. It seems one post convinced you when you originally didnt have any idea about what the context of the story was about, thinking Schrodinger jsut got devoured against his will. I dont see why its your call when you aren't knowledgeable about this series.

Its Nigh-Omnipresent what im putting forward, not 'all of existence' and excluding the time part, but the guy is literally everywhere, nowhere and not bounded by a physical plane.

 

[Jinx666]

Oh for gods' sakes, this is getting ridiculous.

Im sorry but you're accepting complete inaccuracies if Schrodingers whole ability is going to be settled down to just teleportation.

I agree its its own crazy unique power, but Nigh Omnipresent is definitely what it should be accepted as in terms of the terminology in this wiki.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Hes literally the Schrodinger Cat. Its constantly reinforced that hes everywhere and nowhere, which bridges on the plane of existence and reality, he doesnt die or live, as shown in the videos i posted.

It isn't constantly reinforced. I'm sorry. There's one statement said several times, and there's proof he can appear anywhere. Omnipresence is being in all locations at once.

Him and his unique nature, was what was used to physically erase alucard into 'imaginary numbers', that seemingly couldnt be brought back,

Which means that Schrodinger can exist in any single location as long as he is aware of himself, but can't exist in any of those single locations if he's not. That isn't omnipresence.

He can't turn it on or off
He used the physical body that harboured his soul, Alucard absorbed it unknowingly, and then Schrodinger got lost in the many other souls Alucard absorbed.
His entire being was an incorporeal presence that only interacted through his physical form that he could post and plant anywhere he wanted,

If his entire being was an omnipresent essence, namely an omnipresent soul, it wouldn't be housed in his body. It would be everywhere.

 

[Antvasima]

You are using a heavily contradicted no limits fallacy based on an unproven statement, despite apparently not understanding how true omnipresence works or being willing to learn in this regard. This is not reasonable behaviour, and you are required to eventually accept official staff judgements regarding such issues.

 

[Jinx666]

Nigh-Omnipresence. Not conventional omnipresence, but he literally exists anywhere he wants while nowhere. There are also other statements about Schrodingers existence

Yes it is? the Omnipresence page itself, the character has to exist anywhere, everywhere and nowhere without bounds. Excluding the anywhere part, Schrodinger encompasses all of that.

Its a physical manifestation. Like how Gods can have an avatar. It still derives from him soul and was a power Alucard unwillingly absorbed.

 

[Jinx666]

You are using a heavily contradicted no limits fallacy based on an unproven statement, despite apparently not understanding how true omnipresence works or being willing to learn in this regard. This is not reasonable behaviour, and you are required to eventually accept official staff judgements regarding such issues

It is proven. Im just not being listened to and trying to be silenced after you were making a call on the completely wrong context. Its only being denied based on one gag scene.

That being said, Schrodinger is limited to being a true omnipresent being, but thats what the term Nigh Omnipresence is for.

There is major stuff you're missing, and even if he isnt nigh omnipresent, i want to put forward a way of more accurately representing this power rather than cutting corners. Im sorry if its annoying but its true, and i dont appreciate being forced to cease and desist when youre making a call on a verse you arent knowledgeable on and being the judge of it. At least call a knowledgable member to fight your corner

 

[Antvasima]

Well, normally I would assume that somebody was trolling at this point, but you simply seem to be extremely unreasonable and unwilling to try to understand. Nevertheless, beyond a certain point we just have to accept that you cannot be reasoned with no matter what, and then close the thread.

 

[Jinx666]

Well, normally I would assume that somebody was trolling at this point, but you simply seem to be extremely unreasonable and unwilling to try to understand. Nevertheless, beyond a certain point we just have to accept that you cannot be reasoned with no matter what, and then close the thread.

I could say the exact same.
Your mind was made before i even got to make a point. I dont see how you can't see the issue with this.

All you want me to do is shut up and not talk. You dont care about whatever point im making, and are just fine with cutting corners and keeping the inaccuracy.

 

[Antvasima]

I know what omnipresence fundamentally is, and an individual with quantum uncertainty principle properties is not remotely the same thing, no matter the unreliable statements connected to him.

 

[Jinx666]

I know what omnipresence fundamentally is, and an individual with quantum uncertainty principle properties is not remotely the same thing, no matter the unreliable statements connected to him.

Then lets call it that then. Not 'instant teleportation'.
Im also not saying omnipresence. Its Nigh-omnipresence. Pseudo-omnipresence. Encompassing the same concept but being far more limited which is what Schrodinger is and his role in the story. Schrodinger has been referred to as this ever since Hellsings been out.

But the statements are there, you didn't even know the context of how Schrodinger worked in the story, and now youre acting like im the one talking out of nowhere.

You dont have to be the one arguing this, but can you explain to me why you think Schrodinger doesnt qualify as a Nigh-Omnipresent from what you can gather has been said?

 

[Antvasima]

I am saying that based on everything explained in this thread, including by yourself, that does not remotely match with our definition of either omnipresence or nigh omnipresence. Quantum particles are not literally omnipresent. They just have uncertainty principle properties.

If you want to state that Schrödinger's entire body has quantum uncertainty principle properties, that should probably be fine to add. If you want to state that he is omnipresent, nigh-omnipresent, pseudo-omnipresent, or literally everywhere, that is definitely not acceptable.

 

[Jinx666]

I mean i wouldnt be the one saying definitely when just a minute ago you didnt even know Schrodingers context in the story and how Alucard had taken his power.

The Nigh Omnipresence on this wiki is definitely a flawed definition if its basically 'only exactly omnipresent but in a confined area'. Limits the scope to only one aspect of being nigh-omnipresent, when theres realms of space, time and bounding to consider

I can change it to Quantum uncertainty/immortality/something or other as a more accurate representation than what you had accepted yes. Since obviously im not gonna be agreed upon despite everything. Other than that im done, and i can accept the changes.

You didnt have to force yourself into deciding a confrontation from a series you dont know though. Im only continuing right now mainly because you were about to close the entire discussion based on the absolute wrong context. Which im sure you can agree shouldnt be fine. And i shouldnt be told to stop making my points because you dont want me to.

 

[Random-Helper323]

It is proven. Im just not being listened to and trying to be silenced

I expressly suggested above that Antvasima leave the thread open to let you speak because I don't think people should be silenced. And Antvasima has done so despite his regretting it.

At least call a knowledgable member to fight your corner

I don't know if I'm listed as knowledgeable, but I have read the Hellsing manga, seen the OVA repeatedly in both languages, seen and read The Dawn, read Crossfire, listened to cast interviews, and seen the original anime. I also have those manga and anime. I actually have a lot (as in hundreds) of manga, anime and comics, so I'm no stranger to the genre or medium either.

It is proven.

It is stated, not proven. If I state that you threw a garbage bag at my door, that's not proof. If I provide footage of you doing so, that is proof.

Its only being denied based on one gag scene.

I listed three seperate scenes very clearly and deliberately in an above post, hoping you would notice that there is more than one scene.

That being said, Schrodinger is limited to being a true omnipresent being, but thats what the term Nigh Omnipresence is for.

Nigh-omnipresence is for a character who is everywhere at once within a smaller range. If a character is omnipresent within a worldspace they control, but not outside of it, that is nigh-omnipresence.

As Antvasima said above, if there is an ability for quantum uncertainty, let's look into that. I'd also like to elaborate beyond teleportation, but omnipresence, Abstract Existence, and having an actual ability for Non-existence are not the way to do it.

 

[Jinx666]

I expressly suggested above that Antvasima let you speak because I don't think people should be silenced. And Antvasima has done so despite his regretting it.

Look im not making anymore big posts. I cant reply to all that without this continuing.
If you wanna discuss it elsewhere let me know, because i still think you're completely wrong to downplay the huge plot point of Schrodingers nigh omnipresence to a single Gag feat, and speculation about his being.
But those are definitely not concrete reasons to downplay a 'Nigh Omnipresence' model for him, which can be interpreted in different ways. Schrodingers a unique character but none of that takes him out of that running.

 

[Jinx666]

Either way, when i have time ill be putting forward an edit based that more fairly represents Schrodinger's ability than what was immediately accepted.

I can run it by you all first, and i wont be putting anything about omnipresence but alas it should be far better representation. This is meant to rep Alucard too.

 

[Antvasima]

Our staff do not have limitless amounts of free time to argue incessantly in content revision threads, given the sheer amount of work that we have to help out with for no pay, especially not myself, given that I easily have the greatest amount of tasks.

As such, we need to focus on a certain degree of efficiency, and our evaluations have to be accepted past a certain point, or this entire community stops functioning properly at all, with no resolutions achieved anywhere.

in addition, you have several years of history of being relentlessly unreasonable and argumentative, and quickly seem to turn into a pain in this regard again.

 

[Jinx666]

Im aware, but you're here arguing and making calls for a series you dont know about. You're forcing yourself to answer all these that you dont really have any legitimate business answering if you dont decently know the series. You literally proved yourself that you had no idea of the context of Schrodinger but was going to act and close the thread based on that false information and idea in your head.

Efficiency, but you shouldnt be turning down any option of change when new information is presented from more than 1 person. There should be some sense for quality.

I could very much say the same for how this wiki has been run and the controversies that have been caused not just by me, and have been spoken and raised issue about not just by me. Im always going to be defending myself when i see an injustice, because quite frankly i dont think this wiki has been fair to me In the Past, which is where im leaving that behind and hopefully you can too without trying to unknowingly escalate the situation. All i wanna do is contribute to this wiki, and am adjusting to the sudden major changes since my hiatus, but quite frankly, just like whats happened in the past, i dont think this was conducted fairly whatsoever, and im not afraid to speak that out and should not be silenced because you have decided to take on a thread with a discussion you do not know anything about.

 

[Random-Helper323]

If you wanna discuss it elsewhere let me know

I'd love omnipresence, but I can't in good conscience say it's true when it isn't demonstrated, and is contradicted by three scenes. So if you want to discuss quantum uncertainty I'm interested to add some stuff there.

because i still think you're completely wrong to downplay the huge plot point of Schrodingers nigh omnipresence to a single Gag feat

Three feats. Not just a single gag feat. I listed them above. I'll also list them here.

• Failing to find the book. An omnipresent being would be everywhere, including where the book is. Even if it was only their essence, they'd still know where the book was, or at least be easily able to find it.
• Needing Tubalcain's blood to find the meeting. An omnipresent being would be everywhere, including in the meeting room. Even if it was just their essence, they'd still be aware that the meeting was taking place, or at least able to easily find it. They'd literally be with Alucard as he entered and also with Integra who's already in there at the same time.
• His soul and essence being absorbed via absorbing his body. An omnipresent being's soul and essence would be everywhere, and thus consuming the body wouldn't allow consumption of their entire essence.

 

[Antvasima]

I still haven't changed my mind about the omnipresence, but I apologise for being rather rude above. I get impatient sometimes when I am sufficiently tired and overworked.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I've actually realised another thing about Alucard and Schrodinger and have realised it could be very significant. I won't bring it up here, since this thread has gone on too long already. Antvasima, is it alright if I PM you about it? I'll understand if the answer's no, you've heard more about it than you wanted already. For this thread, I think close it. I'll investigate the quantum uncertainty and see if it can be reasonably added or even exists as an ability.

 

[The_Pink_God]

When all of this ends, I want y'all to ping me and say what's been accepted and what's been not
After that, I'll apply the changes on the Sandbox
Also, a reminder that the 8-B feat, London Flood usability, and Alu making a Dense Fog are yet to be fully discussed (On the latter's case, made)

 

[DontTalkDT]

Alucard has no immunity to sunlight, he just has no weakness to it.
And what's supposed to give him resistance to resistance negation?

 

[The_Pink_God]

I must have accidentally put the latter hold on and I'll fix that

 

[DontTalkDT]

Actually, why soul manip resistance for that matter? Because he has a lot of souls instead of just one? If so that should be specified as it's a non-standard kind of resistance.