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Alucard (Hellsing) major CRT

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How about:

Unknown. Abstract existence, nonexistent physiology, and regeneration make him extremely difficult to kill

Since it doesn't really directly durability but more of an added thing. Also that thing after level 0 would imply level 0 has good regeneration, which it doesn't, so probably not.
 
Tots_Real said:
How about:

Unknown. Abstract existence, nonexistent physiology, and regeneration make him extremely difficult to kill

Since it doesn't really directly durability but more of an added thing. Also that thing after level 0 would imply level 0 has good regeneration, which it doesn't, so probably not.
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yeah i just feel like the profile should explain not only do you have to deal with his durability

but he has a wide range of stuff that makes him difficult to kill



Unless your tier 1-B or higher.


i think a profile should state in the durability stuff that makes the character difficult to kill if they have the abilities that make them that.


EX: immortality, regeneration, abstract existence, nonexistent physiology, etc
 
Yeah but people can read the profile, no?

Regen, I can understand adding. The others? No. In that case you would need to add at least a dozen other abilities too, cause a lot makes one hard to kill
 
Pokemonfan807 said:
Mid godly regeneration.
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The three scans linked to justify mid godly regeneration don't seem to really say his soul was destroyed or erased. In fact, if the other souls he had inside him had to be painstakingly killed over the course of thirty years until only one, his own, remained, if anything that tells us his soul should still exist too, since all the extra souls he had still existed. If anything that tells us he regenerated from a disembodied soul, mind and consciousness, which is Low Godly. I'm completely on board with Low Godly for Schroedinger, in fact I saw Screwattack's decision not to use Schroedinger as a way to give the win to Dio, given they ignored that Alucard can also hypnotise people and unlike Dio also has resistance. But Mid Godly seems unsubstantiated.

Those three scans are linked

here

here

here

If you check all three out, you'll see Alucard was erased and regenerated from his disembodied state, but nothing states that his soul or mind were destroyed or erased, and the fact that he still had 3 million souls to kill before he could return if anything proves none of his souls were erased. And he stated that he killed all except one, so he didn't destroy his own soul then recreate it either. I just don't see Mid Godly here. Low Godly for sure, but not Mid Godly.
 
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Disagree with abstract existence and mid-godly. He hasn't displayed either of those. You could also say he has some sort of acausality (being illogical), but neither of the aforementioned. He still exists, and so does his soul. Besides, the mid-godly stuff comes from another site.
 
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Rez said:
Because when they say he is everywhere and nowhere they are referring to his paradoxical nature aka by recognising that his existence he can choose where to exist. He doesn't exist everywhere simultaneously.
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Not nep 1, just 3. It's not like his soul doesn't exist, just his body.
 
about durability, we could put

unknown, at least 10-A (should be more resilient than his human form)

i guess??
 
kuramamyfav68 said:
Not nep 1, just 3. It's not like his soul doesn't exist, just his body.
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The whole reason alucard stopped existing is because of the massive amount of souls he possesses. Also Schrodinger's ability allows him to interact with abstract stuff such as thoughts so yeah we have no reason to believe that only his body becomes non existent.
 
Rez said:
The whole reason alucard stopped existing is because of the massive amount of souls he possesses. Also Schrodinger's ability allows him to interact with abstract stuff such as thoughts so yeah we have no reason to believe that only his body becomes non existent.
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I don't know if appearing in people's minds means his soul doesn't exist though. It's more that he can appear in a sort of mindscape, which doesn't have much to do with non-existence. Schrodinger didn't even seem to be able to take any significant action while inside Zorin's mind. However, Alucard was able to kill his own souls while he wasn't able to physically exist. The implication is that he was in some other state of being, possibly trapped in a disembodied form of his own mind. Non-existent or perhaps non-corporeal physiology in a sense might come from that, but I don't know about his soul.

Edit: Alucard is stated to be nowhere, due to not being able to recognise himself. Even calling that non-existent physiology is questionable, but assuming it extends to his soul seems like a no to me. I am good on incorporeality, but not abstract existence since Alucard does not embody a concept.
 
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Random-Helper323 said:
I don't know if appearing in people's minds means his soul doesn't exist though. It's more that he can appear in a sort of mindscape, which doesn't have much to do with non-existence. Schrodinger didn't even seem to be able to take any significant action while inside Zorin's mind. However, Alucard was able to kill his own souls while he wasn't able to physically exist. The implication is that he was in some other state of being, possibly trapped in a disembodied form of his own mind. Non-existent or perhaps non-corporeal physiology in a sense might come from that, but I don't know about his soul.

Edit: Alucard is stated to be nowhere, due to not being able to recognise himself. Even calling that non-existent physiology is questionable, but assuming it extends to his soul seems like a no to me. I am good on incorporeality, but not abstract existence since Alucard does not embody a concept.
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I am fine with abstract existence being removed but alucard's condition definitely sounds like non existence to me.
It definitely extends to his soul as the only reason he can't recognise himself is because of the vast amount of souls that exists within him
 
Rez said:
I am fine with abstract existence being removed but alucard's condition definitely sounds like non existence to me.
It definitely extends to his soul as the only reason he can't recognise himself is because of the vast amount of souls that exists within him
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I'm not sure that's truly non-existence though. He can't be present anywhere on earth but he still existed. He existed enough to kill his souls and enough to be extremely hungry when he returned. In addition, there's no solid proof his soul changed at all since no-one in Hellsing has any ability to directly interact with disembodied souls in the first place. His state at the end describes incorporeality to the letter, though, so I definitely support that.
 
Rez said:
Expect that's not what's happening..in his Schrodinger he doesn't exist anywhere.


Him being able to kill his own souls is no proof against his non existence. Non existence is an paradoxical existence after all.
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I can see the reasoning here, I'm just not sure if "he is nowhere" is enough to qualify for non-existent physiology, and I'm not sure if him being able to slowly kill himself over and over is proof that it extends to his souls also not existing. It's not that it can be proven that it isn't non-existence, it's that there doesn't seem to be sufficient proof that it is non-existence either.

I also have to say again, since no-one responded, that mid-godly regen is actually disproved by the fact that his souls were still there. We can't say he can regenerate his soul when not only was his soul not destroyed, we also know for a fact he had to painstakingly kill his souls over the course of thirty years. If it had been a mid-godly feat it would have been a matter of reconstituting his own soul, not destroying his extra ones. However, low-godly regeneration via projecting a new body from his incorporeal state is pretty impressive, the problem is that Schrodinger Alucard doesn't get enough screen time to really show us what he can do.

I'd like to see a sequel where it turns out Alucard has perfected Schrodinger's power to reach whole new levels, and really showcase these new abilities to show that Alucard is even more ultimate than before. Sadly, it hasn't happened.
 
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Random-Helper323 said:
I can see the reasoning here, I'm just not sure if "he is nowhere" is enough to qualify for non-existent physiology, and I'm not sure if him being able to slowly kill himself over and over is proof that it extends to his souls also not existing. It's not that it can be proven that it isn't non-existence, it's that there doesn't seem to be sufficient proof that it is non-existence either.
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It's not just the nowhere part Schrodinger is both everywhere and nowhere. It mainly depends upon how he recognises his existence. His existence is best explained by Schrodinger's thought experiment in such that it's a paradoxical existence which cannot be proven by anyone else but him. And no the reason why it extends to his soul is not because he was able to kill his souls while being in the nowhere state although that is an part of it. It's mostly because his souls are the reason why he is stuck in that state as he is unable to recognise his own existence.

Yeah the mid godly can go away.
 
Rez said:
It's not just the nowhere part Schrodinger is both everywhere and nowhere. It mainly depends upon how he recognises his existence. His existence is best explained by Schrodinger's thought experiment in such that it's a paradoxical existence which cannot be proven by anyone else but him. And no the reason why it extends to his soul is not because he was able to kill his souls while being in the nowhere state although that is an part of it. It's mostly because his souls are the reason why he is stuck in that state as he is unable to recognise his own existence.

Yeah the mid godly can go away.
Click to expand...
The issue is that "everywhere and nowhere" doesn't necessarily mean non-existence, especially since if you think about it, it's slightly hyperbolic, as he is only semi-omnipresent, not truly omnipresent, which is what is implied by saying he is simultaneously everywhere and nowhere. It seems more as if what's going on is his true self always exists as a disembodied consciousness (the nowhere part) and he can project himself anywhere he wants (the everywhere part). The state Alucard and Schrodinger are in is already covered by incorporeality. If you read the incorporeality page, it describes the nature of Schrodinger and post-Schrodinger Alucard to the letter.

Edit: I said already that the issue we all have with Schrodinger is a lack of information. That was even the excuse Rooster Teeth used to not factor Schrodinger in the Death Battle. In the old days people even used to argue that Schrodinger wouldn't regenerate if damaged sufficiently (if you think about it we only ever see him regenerating his head being destroyed), that Alucard lost all his other abilities, that Alucard returning after being erased was dependant on the piece of stone with his symbol on it and doesn't apply to his regeneration, and so on. These arguments came mostly from comic fans who hated anime, but they could make these claims because Schrodinger and post-Schrodinger Alucard have so few demonstrations of their abilities.
 
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Random-Helper323 said:
The issue is that "everywhere and nowhere" doesn't necessarily mean non-existence, especially since if you think about it, it's slightly hyperbolic, as he is only semi-omnipresent, not truly omnipresent, which is what is implied by saying he is simultaneously everywhere and nowhere. It seems more as if what's going on is his true self always exists as a disembodied consciousness (the nowhere part) and he can project himself anywhere he wants (the everywhere part). The state Alucard and Schrodinger are in is already covered by incorporeality. If you read the incorporeality page, it describes the nature of Schrodinger and post-Schrodinger Alucard to the letter.

Edit: I said already that the issue we all have with Schrodinger is a lack of information. That was even the excuse Rooster Teeth used to not factor Schrodinger in the Death Battle. In the old days people even used to argue that Schrodinger wouldn't regenerate if damaged sufficiently (if you think about it we only ever see him regenerating his head being destroyed), that Alucard lost all his other abilities, that Alucard returning after being erased was dependant on the piece of stone with his symbol on it and doesn't apply to his regeneration, and so on. These arguments came mostly from comic fans who hated anime, but they could make these claims because Schrodinger and post-Schrodinger Alucard have so few demonstrations of their abilities.
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Schrodinger's ability is not semi omnipresence. What you are saying is balant headcanon. He is stated to exist in a state of everywhere and nowhere. Everywhere is this statement is truly hyperbolic but nowhere isn't we have absolutely no anti feats for non existence. Especially since major referes to alucard's state at the end to be similar to mere imaginary numbers.

This is the definition of nowhere:
not in or to any place; not anywhere.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
it describes the nature of Schrodinger and post-Schrodinger Alucard to the letter.
Click to expand...
It absolutely doesn't. Infact it perfectly matches the description of the non existent physiology page.

Nonexistent Physiology refers to the ability to lack certain aspects of ones existence, to paradoxically 'exist', yet lack certain identifiable traits of existence, or exist outside of a particular scope of 'existence'. While true nonexistence in the philosophical sense is impossible to prove, lesser forms of the idea appear often in fiction.
 
As major explains it Schrodinger is a cheshire cat that jumps around the world where the probability of existence itself is equivocal.
0010-062.png

Equivocal: open to more than one interpretation; ambiguous
Again refering to the paradoxical nature of his existence
 
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The problem is that not being physically present isn't identical to non-existence, not when incorporeality is already in play and already covers the part about him being present but also not present. I guess you could argue it applies to his body while he can't manifest himself. Attaching it to his normal state and treating it as combat applicable is hard though.

Even the wording being used by the major in the scan is vague, "a world where the probability of existence itself is equivocal" can easily be taken as flowery words simply referring to his ability to manifest randomly in locations. I'm fine with the idea that Alucard became non-existent in a way by not recognising himself, but applying that to his general abilities and treating it as combat applicable is questionable.

If Alucard was able to absorb Schrodinger's soul through his blood then Schrodinger's soul has to have existed and been reachable, which casts further doubt on his soul being inaccessible to anyone who can't interact with non-existent targets, and has to have at least been connected to his body, which has to have also existed. In fact that might even make incorporeality questionable as well. It's obvious his soul is in his body, and can be consumed. So the only way to do this would be if Alucard can interact with non-existent targets, and the major would have to know that despite no other vampire ever showing that ability. To say nothing of the major assuming Alucard couldn't return and then Alucard did, casting some doubt on the major's knowledge of the matter as well.

I guess you could argue he lacks some aspect of existence, but it doesn't seem to be combat applicable.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
If Alucard was able to absorb Schrodinger's soul through his blood then Schrodinger's soul has to have existed and been reachable, which casts further doubt on his soul being inaccessible to anyone who can't interact with non-existent targets, and has to have at least been connected to his body, which has to have also existed. In fact that might even make incorporeality questionable as well. It's obvious his soul is in his body, and can be consumed. So the only way to do this would be if Alucard can interact with non-existent targets, and the major would have to know that despite no other vampire ever showing that ability. To say nothing of the major assuming Alucard couldn't return and then Alucard did, casting some doubt on the major's knowledge of the matter as well.
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Again that is not how Schrodinger's ability works he can choose to exist by recognising his own existence. Alucard absorbed Schrodinger because he allowed it.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
The problem is that not being physically present isn't identical to non-existence, not when incorporeality is already in play and already covers the part about him being present but also not present. I guess you could argue it applies to his body while he can't manifest himself. Attaching it to his normal state and treating it as combat applicable is hard though.

Even the wording being used by the major in the scan is vague, "a world where the probability of existence itself is equivocal" can easily be taken as flowery words simply referring to his ability to manifest randomly in locations. I'm fine with the idea that Alucard became non-existent in a way by not recognising himself, but applying that to his general abilities and treating it as combat applicable is questionable.
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It's not flowery language because that is how Schrodinger's ability works. You are blatantly choosing to ignore all of the evidence. He can choose to recognise his existence. The major's lines perfectly explains how Schrodinger is an state of both existence and non existence and these states can only be defined by his own recognition of it.
The only combat applicable uses of it are
1. Schrodinger's ability remove any injuries
2. And incons which is not alucard's style
 
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Rez said:
Why would it be any lower than his regular vampire form?
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his vampire form always gets gutted before he goes for the kill, so it's unknown just how much he can resist

his 8-B comes from the jet but idk, he could have just regenerated

welp, 9-A should be a good estimate

i was sleepy, sorry
 
I've upgraded the Sandbox with what has been agreed so far, that is the Mid-Godly removal
Did I miss anything?
 
Anywho, seems that AE and NEP are still discussing whether they should be there or not, we shall wait until then and then I'll update the Sandbox accordingly
 
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