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Alovenus and Ruphas downgrade

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Hmesko said:
@not_exactly on comic vine already addressed the idea of using set theory to justify characters being "beyond infinitely powerful." You can't use set theory on characters like alovenus or any other beyond multiversal beings to measure the amount of power of their attacks or other physical attributes. Because we are not talking about the amount of universes or multiverses in albw's cosmology or other verses' cosmology. So alovenus is either infinite in her power or she is not. And alovenus has too many anti feats to be infinitely powerful. This next part is only my own belief and no one else's. But when dealing with "beyond multiversal" beings. Anti feats become the the most important part. This is why featherine is so powerful. She has no anti feats. Or at least no low showings that can be meaningfully held against her. Whereas alovenus has plenty of anti feats. Opponent's dodging and tanking her infinite attacks. Her failing to instantly destroy her opponent's. Her being challenged by her opponent's. Etc. In all honesty. After looking more into it. Alovenus is a lot stronger than I initially thought. I thought ruphas' "super universe" feat was the best in the verse. But alovenus has really good feats of her own.. She operates on a massive "beyond multiversal" scale.. She has really good showings of casually warping reality on a massive cosmological scale. But at the end of the day she is finite in her abilities.
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(Beyond Multiversal is Hyperversal though...(In VSBW) (Though its first Complex Multiversal and then Hyperversal) but anyways)
Kinda Off-topic so ignore this anyways
 
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Antvasima said:
Can somebody summarise the arguments here so far in an easy to understand, but still elaborate and even-handed, manner please?
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they are concerned about the infinite in Yasei's fiction which they think is hyperbole, in my opinion it is fiction logic that cannot be equated with the real world, even in deathbattle, there are many things that cannot be connected with the real world.
 
TheGunsFinalWrath said:
From what I understand and have seen for myself: What the OP posted in the first page, belongs to Comic-vine, and said thread from Comic-vine, was made to debunk Alovenus or "The Last Wild Boss Appeared"`s Outerversal scaling ON Comic-Vine (Or 1-A simply speaking). It wasnt directed towards VSBW anyways, and the OP pretty much stole the text and such and pasted it here- But back to the origin of this: This debunk was mostly made about the character named Alovenus, along with Ruphas. Its an downgrade towards the verse, but at the same time it mostly downgrades Alovenus.

You could read the original thread, which is from Comic-Vine if you dont mind, to get an idea of the original post's thoughts. However, as most has said: The debunk doesnt really fit the VSBW's criteria or something, however, some, or many of the stuff used in the OP could be used in a proper CRT instead. Either way, this thread is pretty much of an argument over a thread from a different site 🤷‍♂️

While it doesnt really fit the Wiki's standards, along with others who has said so as well if I remember correctly: It still points out the flaws of the verse, which in point makes Alovenus's Tier and Ruphas Tier - Questionable.
(In Vs Battle Wiki)

This is what I understand so far.

Here is where the original text originates from. (I can delete the link via editing my post if you dont want me to post the link here)
comicvine.gamespot.com

Alovenus (AWLBA) Disrespect thread - Gen. Discussion - Comic Vine

Table of contentsIntroductionThe "infinity" claimsExaggerated abilitiesReality > fiction layers and dimensionsMiscellaneous (more hyperboles and me
comicvine.gamespot.com comicvine.gamespot.com

Edit: Almost forgot to explain a bit more: There are people arguing against what the OP posted, as in, the one's that "Disagree" with it, while there are others that agree with what the OP said, and are arguing against the one's arguing against what the OP said (Those that Disagree)
Then there are like, few others that are neutral, but leaning towards agreeing with what the OP posted, or others that are just completely "neutral" in stance, I guess.

Another Edit: The original poster of that text/the thread basically, so to speak in his/her's summary, debunked the Outerversal scaling, to Multiversal (Not sure what exactly, but it seems to refer to mostly AP and stuff, like hax) and Infinite speed.
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The person who made this post was responding to a guy named MemeOx who was arguing with someone else about Alovenus being able to transcend infinity into higher levels (He was using feats from VSBW and using the scaling too, they also said he was someone popular on the site so..)
 
Shuna said:
they are concerned about the infinite in Yasei's fiction which they think is hyperbole, in my opinion it is fiction logic that cannot be equated with the real world, even in deathbattle, there are many things that cannot be connected with the real world.
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“Fiction logic”. Thing is, we should be looking at all the evidence hinting at these things being mere hyperbole. Equating fiction logic isn’t enough to remove all the anti-feats.
 
People don't understand that this is how the wiki works. That is why we have things such as "countless into 1-B, and "high 1-B". Transcending in the tier, is being above baseline. What is so hard to understand?

Alovenus attacks cant be negated, or nullified because of her transcendence. Her avatars cant be nullified because they have smurf hax despite their dimensionality. I feel like comic vine rules and understandings are being brought here. If you go above infinite speed infinitely, that's accepted because its above the baseline. Alovenues/Ruphas can casually do this. Most the arguements in the OP are using quotes such as her being hurt, or struck by someone like Ruphas, etc. Ruphas is THE SAME as Aloevenus with her transcendence. Why would she not be able to affect Alovenus?
 
Enter_Bluey said:
Orang-orang tidak mengerti bahwa inilah cara kerja wiki. Itulah mengapa kita memiliki hal-hal seperti "tak terhitung menjadi 1-B, dan "tinggi 1-B". Melampaui tingkat, berada di atas garis dasar. Apa yang begitu sulit untuk dipahami?
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they don't really give arguments based on the vsbattle wiki, I don't think there should be a problem here because that's what the vsbattle wiki says
 
Shuna said:
they don't really give arguments based on the vsbattle wiki, I don't think there should be a problem here because that's what the vsbattle wiki says
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Yeah vs wiki uses "baseline" for speed tiers, and overall tierings. So if someone transcends to an infinity above something else, that is seen as a feat, not hyperbole. It's not like they're going from 4D to 5D, but just to infinitely above baseline 1-B, or low1A. It's not like they go from high 1A, to tier 0. People call it illogical, but that's just how the wiki works
 
Shuradou said:
lmao
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They use Plot Manipulation to change "Settings", at will, and Alovenus can overlay Settings on top of Settings. That's why she's invincible.

If the opponent is strong, Alovenus will only transcend her a thousand times stronger, if the opponent's strength is infinite then Alovenus will transcend her multiply infinite. that's why their fight only transcend each other.
 
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ChlammyNirvalen said:
They use Plot Manipulation to change "Settings", at will, and Alovenus can overlay Settings on top of Settings. That's why he's invincible.

If the opponent is strong, Alovenus will only transcend her a thousand times stronger, if the opponent's strength is infinite then Alovenus will transcend her multiply infinite. that's why their fight only transcend each other.
Click to expand...
Idk if this is enough to give a tier 1-B rating let alone low 1-A
 
Antvasima said:
Can somebody summarise the arguments here so far in an easy to understand, but still elaborate and even-handed, manner please?
Click to expand...
The OP doesn't give a clear purpose from what they want, but if I were to guess, they want a downgrade based on hyperbole, and things that are "illogical". For example, saying they're going "above infinite speed", which is "illogical". Or since they are beyond physics, they still punch each other and is considered illogical as well. However what they don't seem to understand is that you can be baseline, and then be above that, correct? For example Benetnash infinitely above infinite speed was surpassed, but they are saying since it was surpassed, that's illogical and shouldn't be used. To sum it up, I believe some what I'd assume IRL logic is being brought into the CRT.



The other thing is they provide evidence that should downgrade from low1A, that being unclear statements provided.

"A collision—The universe and the parallel worlds contained within one dimension were erased."

"A collision—The higher dimensions, which had been created by fusing an infinite number of similar dimensions, couldn’t withstand the shockwaves and were blown away."

-This should already be proof of higher, 4D dimensions be on an infinite scale

"Another collision—Even the super-high dimensions, which included many higher dimensions, shattered without a word."

-This is already showing there are higher dimensions above that, so any 2-A argument I see invalid
 
Enter_Bluey said:
Yeah vs wiki uses "baseline" for speed tiers, and overall tierings. So if someone transcends to an infinity above something else, that is seen as a feat, not hyperbole. It's not like they're going from 4D to 5D, but just to infinitely above baseline 1-B, or low1A. It's not like they go from high 1A, to tier 0. People call it illogical, but that's just how the wiki works
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yeahh i totally agree with that, if they really use how the vsbattle wiki works then no problem with that.
 
Lormac_CC said:
Bagaimanapun, saya telah melalui CRT. Pada dasarnya apa yang memberi 1-A rendah adalah infinity^infinity
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and in yasei there is something like that, but they think it's something like hyperbole, even though based on the vsbattle wiki there is something called "baseline"
 
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