Alovenus and Ruphas downgrade

[RimUchiha]

I was going through a couple of sites for my Alovenus debate and I found this… what do you guys think? I think Alovenus should be downgraded​

created by: @not_exactly

The "infinity" claims​

First, let us see a couple of mentions of the word "infinite" in the last couple of chapters of the story that at the very least don't sound nonsensical:

Everything came together in this divine space. It was a world that nobody except Alovenus could enter…At least, that was how it was supposed to be. It was a world of whiteness that spread infinitely towards the horizon. It would be meaningless to ask how far it extended, since the answer would be that it extended forever. This world was endless and infinite.

.

In contrast to the whiteness, there was something black scattered everywhere. Each of them constituted an entire universe. Midgard was simply one of these infinite universes. In fact, it was just a tiny world within a star system that existed inside a galaxy, which was part of a galaxy cluster. The universe itself contained many such galaxy clusters.

.

While Alovenus’ attack was being countered, Benetnash and Orm flew forth and launched a series of attacks on Alovenus. Their speeds were already infinite. They couldn’t be avoided since they struck at the same time as the attacks were made. However, they were blocked by an invisible wall in front of the Goddess.

.

“Let me start with the conclusion…My power is infinite. I can overlay settings over pre-existing settings. For example, let’s say you somehow acquired unusual abilities and powers in order to defeat me. Then, I can simply resolve that like this. ‘Your unusual power won’t work on me, and I can still defeat you with one finger.’ Do you think this is ridiculous? Yes, that’s right. I won’t deny it. However, such an inexplicable statement can sometimes be stronger than a never-ending exchange.”

.

Multiverse? I don’t care about such things. Infinite status? Well, whatever. Subversion of the setting? So what?

So we pretty much have - infinitely powerful and fast characters as well as infinitely sized locations. Now let's see how this supposed infinity behaves in story:

Firstly, about the quote for several characters supposedly having infinite speed... One of them is soon after followed by:

The series of attacks by Benetnash and Orm forcefully struck the invisible wall. These faster-than-light attacks had reached an infinite amount of mass, creating black holes upon impacts and shaking the entire universe.

Also, quick note, if these attacks really had "infinite mass" they wouldn't simply shake the universe.

Oh, here's one more instance of the supposedly "infinite speed" getting more infinite by being multiplied by a finite number:

Ruphas continued to accelerate. Her speed endlessly increased, as if it was being multiplied by the speed of light. However, Alovenus accelerated at a speed that left it far behind. In the next moment, Ruphas reciprocated by doing the same thing.

This sentence makes even less sense (from the physics standpoint) when you consider you would have speed measured in m^2/s^2 (and not m/s) after the multiplication...

One more quote of such nonsense (basically multiplying infinity by a finite number and getting a "greater infinity"):

“Infinite speed? I see. How amazing. Then, I’ll answer thus, ‘Infinite speedbefore me is nothing more than one, and I’m one hundred times faster.’

Then, we have Benetnash claiming her speed is already "infinite" but she can still go faster and reach "further infinity" of speed...

Benetnash jumped in from the side, increasing her speed and launching a series of attacks. Faster, faster, and faster! Her speed was already infinite, so it couldn’t be increased any further. But she didn’t care. If it didn’t work right now, she would just have to break through the limit. She would go beyond infinity and reach a further infinity. She would keep going over the walls and transcend beyond her previous self. It was the only way to come out of this alive.

Yeah, no, speed is measured in real numbers (affinely extendable with +- ∞) so going "above" infinite speed doesn't make sense from a mathematical standpoint, which makes this feat either contradictory and therefore nonsensical and should be ignored or she wasn't infinitely fast in the first place.

Next, Alovenus claims her power is infinite, but it can be represented numerically:

Her status…Ruphas observed her status a little, but she soon realized that it was pointless. Her status was displayed, but that was all. Gauging her status was evidently pointless when there were strings of the number nine stretching all the way to the edge of the window. In any case, there should be no doubt that the numerical values were astronomical.

Mentioned again:

“If…If you were to write the level and status of the Goddess down here, you would be writing a string of nines that would reach the end of the universe and then circle back. Her power is simply that immeasurable.”

We also have this supposed infinity getting larger by adding 10 more digits to it (to nullify a finitely powerful attack):

“Hehe. In the instant that I was struck, I increased my HP by ten digits. So the damage that the flame did to me is like a speck of dust.”

She claims she can get infinitely more powerful at a rate one thousand times faster then an already infinitely strong being:

If you say that you’ll become infinitely stronger and stronger, I can simply make myself become infinitely stronger, but at a rate one thousand times faster than you.

Next, if her power was truly infinite, she shouldn't have the need to stack multiple “∞” signs on her status as they don't really make the infinity "larger":

Then, from here on, it would be a matter of who had the greater ego and strength. Since the opponent insisted that she was stronger, then Ruphas would simply insist that she was even stronger. It was just a repetitive quarrel among children. This was already the realm of God, therefore they could do anything that they wanted to. Ruphas’ status instantly changed to “∞”. Furthermore, the character ∞ repeated itself on the display indefinitely. Infinite infinity. Once she had reached this point, it was just a matter of arm strength to get everything done. The multiverse would be reduced to dust just from its mere existence.

The bolded part is elaborated more in the footnotes:

(1) “‘Infinite infinity’ was translated a little differently by someone I know, it is ‘infinity infinity’ or ‘infinite to the power of infinity’?” The raw for this is “無限の無限乗” or “Mugen no mugen jou”. The “jou” here signifies indices. “X no Y jou” translates to “X to the power of Y”. This means that, strictly speaking, “mugen no mugen jou” should translate to “infinity to the power of infinity”. Nevertheless, the context/sentence prior to this statement was describing an “infinity infinity”. As for whether the author is aware of aleph cardinal numbers and beyond, I don’t know.

This would make sense... except for the fact cardinal numbers have nothing to do with representing unit values of some physical quantity like power/energy/mass/etc nor could the notion of measure be redefined in such a way to use them while still referring to the same thing (quantity of some physical value).

Next, from this inner monologue by Alovenus, it's pretty much implied neither she nor Ruphas are infinite, since if they were, they would perfectly stalemate each other in power:

It was a simple equation that even a child could understand. When it was a matter of infinity versus infinity, there could be no answer as to which of them was superior. At least, that was how it should have been.

which they obviously don't... as shown in the next paragraph:

However, Ruphas began to push back with her sword, while Alovenus showed signs of impatience on her face for the first time.

You can't simply be "slightly" stronger than an infinitely powerful character.

Alovenus's existence can cause universes to collapse... if they aren't strong enough (which should be impossible if she truly has infinite properties):

Ruphas raised her fist in front of her to finish the fight. Then, she brought it down on Alovenus’ head. The roar of an explosion echoed, and a shockwave that was about to die from overworking spread out.
If this was a regular planet, Alovenus would have been buried into the ground and burst out from the other side, penetrating the end of the universe to cross over into another universe. Naturally, Alovenus’ existence was too powerful for her to be in a normal universe, so this was built on the premise that it was an extremely strong universe.

Next there was a claim about the "White Room" being infinite, but... it's also said to "lack the concept of size":

The concept of size did not exist in this place. After crossing over from the universe, Ruphas and the others were now on equal footing with Alovenus. Even though they were nothing more than dust in the universe, they had unmistakably come here as enemies.

while also making a size comparison inside it:

Ruphas responded in a casual manner, but deep inside, she knew that she was being overwhelmed.She had known that the scale and dimensions they were in would be different

so yeah, considering it's description is contradicted multiple times I'd take any such exaggerated claim about it with a grain of salt...

And the final nail in the coffin for most of the infinite claims is:

If Ruphas struck with a googolplex (*). power value, Alovenus would counterattack with a power value of a googolplex multiplied by a googolplex. Then, Ruphas would attack again with a multiple of that.
(*) - This is the “unspeakable” number (不可説不可説転) mentioned in the previous chapter. It’s just another stupidly large number like a googolplex

As well as this comment from the translator:

Similarly, the author used terms that are meant to mean “ridiculously large number” in chapters 186 and 187. They were translated as “novemdecillions, vigintillions, centillions, and googolplex”. Refer to the corresponding footnote in chapter 186 which mentions that those terms are interchangeable with “immeasurable” and “unspeakable”. E. g. “If Ruphas struck with an immeasurable/unspeakable power value, Alovenus would counterattack with a power value that was immeasurable/unspeakable multiplied by an immeasurable/unspeakable value. Then, Ruphas would attack again with a multiple of that. ”

Surprise surprise (not really), it turns out most claims of infinite and immeasurable were actually just referring to a really big finite number... oh boy, who could have guessed...

Exaggerated abilities​

Due to how many of them there are I feel like this description author gave her suits her the best:

It was too easy for her to twist reason and disregard contradictions.

But anyway, let's start this long journey of listing a counter example for every hyperbolic claim:

Let's get the most famous one out first:

However, Alovenus had a simple and peerless power that could kill off even an omnipotent being. She was too juvenile and too childish…but that was also the reason she was the strongest.

So... yeah... nothing much to say here. Though I guess I'll give a little snippet on what to expect:

Alovenus {...} that was also the reason she was the strongest.
The difference in power was even greater now. Ruphas’ power had completely surpassed that of Alovenus.

Though while we are talking about omnipotence in AWLBA, let's take a moment to appreciate two mutually contradictory statements written by the author back to back:

Of course, she was neither omniscient nor omnipotent.
This was the surprising weakness of the Goddess, who was supposed to be omnipotent

Oh also, let's add a third statement to make it even worse:

It was a hassle to think of a strategy since she had no weaknesses anyway.

Also, the supposedly "omnipotent" deity Alovenus killed has things that are impossible for him to do:

Even though certain things were impossible for the former deity who had been destroyed by Alovenus,

She was also called "omniscient" but still lacks knowledge (awareness) of certain things:

Because the Goddess was too powerful, she wouldn’t be aware of tiny events that were happening in the tiny world. For example, if someone was playing a game from the perspective of God, the player wouldn’t notice a tiny mosquito that came before the game character. This was because the character was too tiny.

Now, for her exaggerated abilities:

CLAIM: Capable of killing everyone and able to penetrate everything:

The ability to absolutely kill anything that existed within the same space, penetrating all resistances.
Enough arm power to penetrate whatever abilities and kill the opponent.

COUNTER-EXAMPLE: Her attacks get countered:

While Alovenus’ attack was being countered, Benetnash and Orm flew forth and launched a series of attacks on Alovenus.

CLAIM: Able to reflect, dodge, seal and predict every attack:

The ability to reflect all attacks received.
Enough leg power to evade any petty tricks.
The ability to seal all attacks and render the opponent incapable of taking defensive actions.
Enough eye power to see through the opponent’s next move and the move after that.

COUNTER-EXAMPLE: Doesn't predict her ability getting shattered and her getting hit and damaged:

A punch was made. An omnipresent and pure form of violence struck Alovenus, destroying and blowing away the invisible walls that protected her. This “awesome punch that could destroy any barrier” shattered “the barrier that could block any attack”. The punch’s shockwave reached everywhere in an instant, shattering everything that was in front of her. It even blew away one of Alovenus’ arms.

She also gets sliced:

Ruphas’ sword broke the Goddess’ sword, and even sliced through the Goddess’ body.

CLAIM: Able to erase the existence of her opponents and reverse time:

The ability to reverse time and make the opponent non-existent.

COUNTER-EXAMPLE: She fails to display this in every occasion during the fight with every opponent from the main cast.

CLAIM: Capable of always winning:

The ability to win regardless of the process.

COUNTER-EXAMPLE: She still loses (and is able to be killed):

The current Ruphas might be able to forcibly kill the immortal Alovenus, but it seemed she had no intention of doing so. In any case, Alovenus herself had already painfully accepted her defeat.

However, she had lost. Indeed, there was no doubt that Alovenus had lost. Furthermore, if Ruphas had wanted to kill her, Alovenus would be dead already.

This is even more ironic considering she claimed:

Alovenus giggled. It was a laugh that embodied absolute belief in her victory and her own power. She couldn’t lose. There was no reason for her to lose. Even if she really lost, she could simply fiddle with the setting.

And after she lost, she said:

No matter how much she added the setting that she was actually stronger, the fact that she had lostwould still remain in her heart. This would cast a shadow over the belief that she was the strongest.

CLAIM: Can instantly inflict defeat on the opponent:

The ability to inflict the defeat condition on the opponent.

COUNTER-EXAMPLE: Is evenly matched in her fight with Ruphas and can't do anything about it:

They seemed to be evenly matched...No, they were actually evenly matched.

CLAIM: Can erase "everything":

The ability to erase everything with a glance.

COUNTER-EXAMPLE: Still gets hit and damaged by physical attacks and fails to delete her enemies on multiple occasions...

CLAIM: Can nullify every ability:

The ability to nullify all abilities.

COUNTER-EXAMPLE: Can't stop Ruphas from bypassing her restrictions:

In that instant, Ruphas’ power exceeded the setting that had been put in place by Alovenus .

And can't instantly and completely nullify regen:

After Alovenus went on the offensive, Ruphas and the others were forced to go on the defensive. However, their defense was ineffectual, and their recovery couldn’t keep up with the damage they were taking.

CLAIM: Can overcome anything with her willpower:

Enough willpower to overcome whatever the opponent did.

COUNTER-EXAMPLE: The final battle pretty much devolves into a battle of willpower:

From here on, it would be a battle of wills over who was stronger

and... she loses in that too... :

“I—I’m compromising...? Are you saying that I’m giving up?”
“No, you aren’t compromising. You’re not giving up, but you’re not obsessed enough with victory.”

And to top everything off, while listing her abilities she literally states:

—She was using everything that she could think of, but Ruphas still didn’t disappear. The latter just couldn’t be stopped. But she was having so much fun that she couldn't help it.

And tbh this entire list of "unbeatable abilities" can be chalked up to standard reality warping that can be negated by even more potent reality warping, considering:

They would just have to create their own based on their whims .They were like trying to paint their own colors on a blank white canvas and enforce their own truths . Alovenus could do that, so there was no reason why they couldn’t do it themselves

This makes any and every claim of the above-mentioned abilities just relative to some level of power. And it's too bad all of these abilities (or at least a vast majority of them) are unusable in a cross-verse battle scenario as all of them are contradicted before even showing to properly work on anything and anyone.

BONUS: Alovenus wields a sword that's equivalent to an unbreakable and unshatterable one Ruphas wields:

Even though the universe in which Midgard existed had already vanished,this pair of swords alone had not. This pair of swords, which was said to remain even if the world was destroyed, would continue to exist for the rest of eternity.
{...}
Despite having the setting of being unbreakable, the setting that it could be shattered was repeatedly written over the previous setting. Even if the sword gained the setting to repair itself, it would just be erased immediately.

But it still gets shattered and broken:

As a result, Alovenus’ sword started to crack.
{...}
Ruphas’ sword broke the Goddess’ sword

Reality > fiction layers and dimensions​

The claims for this are the usual stuff - higher dimensions that involve some qualitative transcendence over lower ones as well as viewing them as fiction... To add some counter-examples for that:

People claim the "script" represents reality manipulation from a higher R>F layer but it's pretty much confirmed that the "script" is used metaphorically from these quotes:

『The curtains…The curtains have closed on this story.』 The time to close the curtains had arrived. Finally, the moment had come for the catastrophe of the story before the end of the world. The plot had become such a mess by this point that it was now completely out of sync with the script. The story couldn’t be established anymore. The only thing possible at this point was for the Goddess to tear up the script and throw it away. The Wood Ouroboros regretted the short time he was able to spend with his children, but he decided to perform one final task before disappearing. He glanced at Pollux and Castor. Then, he released a faint glow from his eyes that enveloped their bodies.

.

He wasn’t trying to play the victim here. He was the one who had been playing out the Goddess’ script and brought misfortune to a lot of people. He had no intention of denying this fact.

.

He wasn’t trying to play the victim here. He was the one who had been playing out the Goddess’ script and brought misfortune to a lot of people. He had no intention of denying this fact.

Next, "rewriting the setting" doesn't actually mean rewriting it from a higher narrative layer, just reality warping the setting (layer) in which they are already in:

The difference in power was even greater now. Ruphas’ power had completely surpassed that of Alovenus. As a result, Alovenus’ sword started to crack. Despite having the setting of being unbreakable, the setting that it could be shattered was repeatedly written over the previous setting. Even if the sword gained the setting to repair itself, it would just be erased immediately.

.

“Eh!? It—It hurts!?” “This is punishment for a naughty child. Seriously…I had to work so hard just for this one hit.” “Wai—eh, is that all!? Did you really go so far just for that!?” “Of course not. Anyway, rewrite that annoying script. A script that’s frowned upon by all of the characters in it isn’t even a script anymore.”

One more time the "script" is mentioned in a metaphorical sense, making every other usage of it referring to "higher dimensions" be dubious at best:

The world had been released from the script of the Goddess. From here on, the script would be written by the people themselves. Ruphas thought of the future and laughed as if a weight had been lifted from her.

Furthermore, the usage of dimensions doesn't necessarily need to imply they are somehow "transcended" over the lower ones unless explicitly stated, as they are sometimes implied to be parallel universes:

After dumping that oversized baggage onto an unsuspecting person, Ruphas moved her arms to rewind and repair the various dimensions and timelines that had been erased during the battle. Although she was a bit concerned about whether the timelines could be properly rewinded, she was able to get it done by maintaining that anything was possible.

Next, when it's actually stated they are talking about higher dimensions, let's take a look at how they are constructed:

A collision—The universe and the parallel worlds contained within one dimension were erased.

A collision—The higher dimensions, which had been created by fusing an infinite number of similar dimensions, couldn’t withstand the shockwaves and were blown away.

So these "higher dimensions" are actually just [at most countable] collections of lower ones. And considering authors previous misuse of the word infinity, as well as:

Another collision—Even the super-high dimensions, which included many higher dimensions, shattered without a word.

it makes it very dubious if these higher dimensions are actually an infinite collection of lower ones or just some really large finite amount of them.

Miscellaneous (more hyperboles and metaphors)​

These quotes didn't really belong to any of the above three categories but they are still worth to note:

One quote that talks about "multiverses" doesn't actually use the characters for multiverse anywhere in the raws and instead they talk about universes:

The multiverse shrank as well, revealing the overwhelming scale that the multiverse was just a cell of a cosmos.

RAWS:

再び宇宙が収縮する。すると再び見せ付けられる、この大宇宙すらも細胞の一つでしかないという圧倒的なスケールを。

Next, Alovenus says there is no concept of strength in a battle of this level

Strangely enough, as Alovenus herself had said, there was no concept of strength in a battle of this level anymore.

but it's literally started later on it's a battle of strength:

Then, from here on, it would be a matter of who had the greater ego and strength. Since the opponent insisted that she was stronger, then Ruphas would simply insist that she was even stronger. It was just a repetitive quarrel among children.

She also claims that "concepts and laws don't exist" there:

Concepts, providences, laws, and even limits were all things that had been created by God. Therefore, there were no such things in the realm of God. They would just have to create their own based on their whims.

which not only a nonsensical notion (does the concept of existence also not exist there?) but they are also still able to measure their power level, are able to talk, move, fight, lose, win, etc... Though to be fair it's explained a bit further here:

They were like trying to paint their own colors on a blank white canvas and enforce their own truths. Alovenus could do that, so there was no reason why they couldn’t do it themselves. After all, they were residents of the world that had been created by Alovenus. For the same reason, natural laws didn’t apply to them. In hindsight, this was probably why the laws of physics didn’t apply to them at all.

which is unfortunately completely contradictory with the fact they talk about speed, mass, time, energy, etc... which all fall under laws of physics

Then, there is a claim that time doesn't exist in the place they are fighting:

Time itself no longer existed here, so it was no longer restricted to being used once per day.

But they still manage to "break it":

It was shortly before Ruphas and Alovenus broke time itself and everything in the world stopped.

...and also fight, throw punches, etc:

The battle had come to a temporary stalemate as they simply glared at each other from a distance. As they faced each other in this white space, Ruphas made a move first. When she waved her arms, Lifthrasir appeared in her hands, even though they had been borrowed by Alioth.

.

A punch was made. An omnipresent and pure form of violence struck Alovenus, destroying and blowing away the invisible walls that protected her. This “awesome punch that could destroy any barrier” shattered “the barrier that could block any attack”. The punch’s shockwave reached everywhere in an instant, shattering everything that was in front of her. It even blew away one of Alovenus’ arms.

Great, so not only was the original claim nonsense, it's also contradicted...

Summary​

Anyway, to sum it all up:

1. Both the author (WOG) and Alovenus love making insane hyperboles that get contradicted fairly quickly making them extremely unreliable sources of knowledge
2. All the claims about omnipotence, being unbeatable, indestructible, invulnerable, negating every attack and bypassing every defense are either contradicted or never shown to work
3. Mentions of reality > fiction layers are extremely vague and most of the times metaphorical
4. Higher dimensions refer to collections of lowers ones, not spatial nor narrative-like dimensions
5. The notion of infinity in this novel is butchered and misrepresented to the point that every claim of it is highly dubious at best and completely wrong at worst

Having said all this, it is still a fact she is a pretty powerful reality warper on a multiversal scope and if the mentions of the vigintillion/centillion/googolplex power level aren't metaphorical (as it's somewhat indicated they are) they could be [somewhat] equated to either energy output or some similar quantifiable metric in which case it would make her a strong contestant for the most powerful finite character.

Her Low 1A key should definitely be removed.

 

[Urshani]

Holy shit, this is one hell of a ******* downgrade

 

[Urshani]

I agree.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

does this mean i can make the alovenus vs yogiri match or is it still not going to happen

 

[DionicioSB]

"could kill off even an omnipotent being" doesn't make any sense, there are many reasons we can say that it can't apply, I agree with you.

 

[Urshani]

does this mean i can make the alovenus vs yogiri match or is it still not going to happen

3-A/2-B at most, so no

Actually no! Just 2-C!

 

[Urshani]

bump

 

[Dereck03]

You can't bump after few minutes

 

[Urshani]

You can't bump after few minutes

****

 

[The_Pink_God]

This seems...
Interesting
Following

 

[Worthless]

That's not how you do things, Mister. Don't even try debunking fictional feats by applying RL physics to it.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Most of this is simply debunked by the fact they transcend infinitely. They are indeed infinite, as its claimed one bonk on Aloevenus's would have destroy said infinity. What's the claim here, that they aren't infinite? Lol

 

[ShivaShakti]

After further inspection, I find this thread to be substantially subpar.

It extrapolates too heavily and bogs it's own arguments down with irrelevant information such as the "No concepts or laws exist here" counterpoint. There is also the fact, that the equation with IRL physics being utilized in this thread, for obvious reasons, simply does not apply.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Also the debunks to Alovenus, when Benetnash, Ruphas, Orm all have the ability to transcend which is why they fight like this

 

[Ningenron]

You forgot this anti feats smh:

Ruphas continued to accelerate. Her speed endlessly increased, as if it was being multiplied by the speed of light. However, Alovenus accelerated at a speed that left it far behind. In the next moment, Ruphas reciprocated by doing the same thing.

Infinite speed seemingly becoming faster by being multiplied by the speed of light :/

Seems legit.

Anyways, no opinion about the downgrade for now.

Edit: kek, nvm, I didn't notice it was there first.

 

[Darksmash]

After further inspection, I find this thread to be substantially subpar.

It extrapolates too heavily and bogs it's own arguments down with irrelevant information such as the "No concepts or laws exist here" counterpoint. There is also the fact, that the equation with IRL physics being utilized in this thread, for obvious reasons, simply does not apply.

That's because it's not designed for vswiki. It's been copy pasted from a Comicvine thread.

On topic: Alovenus is inconsistent parody trash that doesn't deserve the tier she has, imo. So yes I agree with this thread. Although it doesn't really propose a tier.

 

[azontr]

doesn't deserve the tier she has

Every time I see a statement like this, I die a little inside.

 

[Ningenron]

Why tho

 

[DarlingAurora]

Following.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

And yet we have other feats like Benetnash becoming infinitely faster than infinite, and Alovenus/Ruphas instantly being above that. Theres plenty of stuff that justifies their tier tbh, including the speed. Being multiplied by the speed of light, simply meaning multiplied by what would be multiplied by light speed? They can be however fast they want and continue to raise it. Again, I fail to realize how showing that Ruphas manages to hit Alovenus in any way disproves where she is now, or what she has. Ruphas was made to fight Alovenus, and it's even explained why she won, her desire to win allowed her to transcend faster than Alovenus. Higher transcend is then GG

 

[Odinson]

could kill off even an omnipotent being

Demonbane moment

 

[Ningenron]

A bunch of buzzwords

 

[Darksmash]

Being multiplied by the speed of light, simply meaning multiplied by what would be multiplied by light speed? They can be however fast they want and continue to raise it.

Not really how infinity works

 

[Tarang123]

Every time I see a statement like this, I die a little inside.

Not like he's wrong, tho

 

[Tarang123]

And yet we have other feats like Benetnash becoming infinitely faster than infinite, and Alovenus/Ruphas instantly being above that. Theres plenty of stuff that justifies their tier tbh, including the speed. Being multiplied by the speed of light, simply meaning multiplied by what would be multiplied by light speed? They can be however fast they want and continue to raise it. Again, I fail to realize how showing that Ruphas manages to hit Alovenus in any way disproves where she is now, or what she has. Ruphas was made to fight Alovenus, and it's even explained why she won, her desire to win allowed her to transcend faster than Alovenus. Higher transcend is then GG

Thing is, we should be taking the word infinity with far more scrutiny than what we actually give it, but that could just me be.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Not really how infinity works

Uh yeah, they will continue to raise their speed, and we've seen Benetnash move infinitely faster than infinite, for Ruphas/Alovenus to then move faster than that. So I actually dont get the point of that debunk?

 

[azontr]

Not like he's wrong, tho

It's such a stupid thing to say lol. There's no such thing as deserving of a tier. If you don't like it just change it, you have that power lol. The power is in you!

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Thing is, we should be taking the word infinity with far more scrutiny than what we actually give it, but that could just me be.

I mean wym, for which part?

 

[Tarang123]

Now, I genuinely don't care much for this downgrade. As in, I'm not too knowledgeable about the topic, but I'll still check around cause it seems interesting.

 

[Tarang123]

It's such a stupid thing to say lol. There's no such thing as deserving of a tier. If you don't like it just change it, you have that power lol. The power is in you!

When he said that, he's just saying that she shouldn't be at that tier, and what's the point of launching a CRT? Someone already did that.

 

[Tarang123]

I mean wym, for which part?

The whole thing with infinitely stronger and stuff should be taken into more scrutiny than whatever is used currently. But that's not a comment about the actual work of fiction's powerscaling, and just a general comment.

 

[azontr]

When he said that, he's just saying that she shouldn't be at that tier, and what's the point of launching a CRT? Someone already did that.

If you mean this CRT, you know it's bad, so shut up lol.

 

[Tarang123]

Uh yeah, they will continue to raise their speed, and we've seen Benetnash move infinitely faster than infinite, for Ruphas/Alovenus to then move faster than that. So I actually dont get the point of that debunk?

countably infinite...

 

[Tarang123]

If you mean this CRT, you know it's bad, so shut up lol.

Nah, I won't stop until all verses become more fodder than Shinza did (still working on that upgrade thread to get them back to 1A lmao)

 

[Ningenron]

Uh yeah, they will continue to raise their speed, and we've seen Benetnash move infinitely faster than infinite, for Ruphas/Alovenus to then move faster than that. So I actually dont get the point of that debunk?

Wanna an advice? Stop taking everything at face value.

 

[Darksmash]

Uh yeah, they will continue to raise their speed, and we've seen Benetnash move infinitely faster than infinite, for Ruphas/Alovenus to then move faster than that. So I actually dont get the point of that debunk?

The point of the debunk was to show that the verse's usage of infinity is extremely flawed and shouldn't be taken at face value.

It's such a stupid thing to say lol. There's no such thing as deserving of a tier. If you don't like it just change it, you have that power lol. The power is in you!

This is such an ignorant thing to say. Everyone knows that CRTs are not so easy. You would have to bash your head against brick walls for weeks before you can get any big CRT passed, and FRA trains would still wreck you.

And even if you cross all that your thread can still always get closed by a mod without explanation. Like the Umineko downgrade thread. Just because someone isn't willing to go through that bullshit they don't even have the right to voice their disagreements?

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Wanna an advice? Stop taking everything at face value.

Uh... "stop taking everything at face value"

 

[azontr]

This is such an ignorant thing to say. Everyone knows that CRTs are not so easy. You would have to bash your head against brick walls for weeks before you can get any big CRT passed, and FRA trains would still wreck you.

And even if you cross all that your thread can still always get closed by a mod without explanation. Like the Umineko downgrade thread. Just because someone isn't willing to go through that bullshit they don't even have the right to voice their disagreements?

I know CRTs aren't easy, I ain't no dumb dumb. But if you're gonna voice your disagreement, like, as a serious disagreement and not as a stupid joke, at least try to put in the work to get what you want.

Let's not derail though, I'm pretty much neutral on this entire thing.

 

[Delta333]

Agree with the downgrade

 

[Tarang123]

The point of the debunk was to show that the verse's usage of infinity is extremely flawed and shouldn't be taken at face value.

Do you agree or disagree with it? I personally find myself neutral cause R>F is definitely one of the most solid ways to prove higher dimensions/higher infinities in fiction, but it's also easy to misinterpret it as well.

You would have to bash your head against brick walls for weeks before you can get any big CRT passed, and FRA trains would still wreck you.

I think you're still salty that the High 1A downgrade for Shinza took as long as it did

And even if you cross all that your thread can still always get closed by a mod without explanation. Like the Umineko downgrade thread. Just because someone isn't willing to go through that bullshit they don't even have the right to voice their disagreements?

Absolutely true. There should honestly be more communication between the creator of the thread and the mods before they close it cause otherwise it's honestly pointless.