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Alien X vs Xeno Goku

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Thats if his AP is that much higher, when its clear that he could kill him in an instant. You guys just love to lowball DB
 
Fight starts.

Goku: *Breathes*

Alien X: *Dissipates* *Reforms* I lived *****!

Goku: *Breathes again*

Rinse and repeat until both of them get bored or something.

Incon.
 
Shubham Sonsurkar said:
I mean he never used his ability while someone is punching him. Pretty sure he will need to get away from Xeno first.
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Can you show me how the ability works?
 
@Mulgara Goku is 2-B in this fight, end of story. Make a CRT if you disagree.

@Planck Vote counted. Tho I will say both characters will most likely start haxing when they get bored.
 
The only hax AX has that'll work on Goku is IM which comes from an author's statement, so he'll never use it. Bloodlust both of them, and we may get a decisive winner.
 
Greenshifter said:
@Mulgara Goku is 2-B in this fight, end of story. Make a CRT if you disagree.
@Planck Vote counted. Tho I will say both characters will most likely start haxing when they get bored.
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And Goku resists virtually every offensive ability Alien X will use in character. If we go this route, Goku will eventually just try to drain Alien X of his lifeforce and seeing as that's a weakness of his, it will eventually kill or at least incapacitate him. The black hole creation could actually be a problem for Goku should X pull it out in time but I can see Goku just teleporting out of range or opening a portal to another universe.

Actually, scratch that. Goku should take this IMO.
 
Votes counted, how in-character is life-force draining for Goku (and how fast does it work?) since Alien X can do something similar with information manipulation? (so if it's OoC for both then yeah)

I also remember CC Goku being unable to use Instant Transmission when under the effects of Hearts' gravity, I assume the same is applicable for Xeno Goku.

I should also mention that Ben has dealt with opponents who can drain life-force before.
 
Greenshifter said:
Votes counted, how in-character is life-force draining for Goku (and how fast does it work?) since Alien X can do something similar with information manipulation? (so if it's OoC for both then yeah)
I also remember CC Goku being unable to use Instant Transmission when under the effects of Hearts' gravity, I assume the same is applicable for Xeno Goku.

I should also mention that Ben has dealt with opponents who can drain life-force before.
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Based on his profile, it isn't an opening move but it's definitely something that he'd use in a pinch. He seems to draw out life energy in increments which subsequently heal him but I can see him doing it continuously to finish off Alien X. The latter on the other hand has never used it, much less in a combat scenario so I doubt t would come into play here.

Nothing like that exists on his profile. Hell, he actually resists gravity manip so this most likely isn't an issue.

Cool. None of those opponents could just drain him, nuke him with a sneeze if he gets too troublesome, wait for him to regenerate, rinse and repeat.
 
It could be possible that AX can teleport while into pieces or let the pieces grow into duplicates, his power comes from within his pocket dimension after all.

Also gravity of a black hole > any other gravity
 
MrLuk2000 said:
The only hax AX has that'll work on Goku is IM which comes from an author's statement, so he'll never use it. Bloodlust both of them, and we may get a decisive winner.
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Dont you guys not understand. This is not a match and the thread should be closed.
 
@Mulgara even if Xeno Goku is 2-A, it doesn't change the match, he still can't bypass AX's regen so it all comes down to hax.
 
Greenshifter said:
It could be possible that AX can teleport while into pieces or let the pieces grow into duplicates, his power comes from within his pocket dimension after all.
Also gravity of a black hole > any other gravity
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Alien X has never done the former before and even if he did the latter, Goku just keeps on annahilating them with ease. Hell, him constantly outputting Ki could just incap X when you consider that it would leave him constantly reforming and dispersing. And I'm pretty sure Goku has the range to yeet his pocket world, considering how his multiverse is larger.

Goku's MFTL+. By definition, he can escape from it's pull simply by flying in the opposite direction. My main point was that his gravity wouldn't negate IT, if that's what you mean.
 
Alien X was turned into little pieces that did grew into duplicates. Galactic Gladiator is also MFTL, he coudlnt escape the black hole by flying in the opposite direction.
 
True but Ben is specifically known for out of the box strategies so if he can do it then there is no point in not doing it if it helps.

Can Goku output ki for 24 hours? Also that might not count as incap for the same reason freezing someone and then freezing them again in an hour doesn't count.

Goku doesn't know about the pocket dimension and it could be that the pocket dimension is outside the multiverse just like the Forge of Creation which is inaccessible by anyone within Ben 10 who doesn't have the Map of Infinity, who's name is Paradox or who is a Celestialsapien.

The black hole can be galaxy-sized and worked on Galactic Gladiator who via speed equal has the same speed as Goku (since he has equal speed to Alien X) and Alien X can create some white energy lasso (which makes you distort) to pull Goku in.

Here is Goku struggling against Hearts' gravity so he wouldn't resist stronger gravity such as a black hole and here is ToP Goku being unable to IT under extreme gravity.
 
Greenshifter said:
True but Ben is specifically known for out of the box strategies so if he can do it then there is no point in not doing it if it helps.
Can Goku output ki for 24 hours? Also that might not count as incap for the same reason freezing someone and then freezing them again in an hour doesn't count.

Goku doesn't know about the pocket dimension and it could be that the pocket dimension is outside the multiverse just like the Forge of Creation which is inaccessible by anyone within Ben 10 who doesn't have the Map of Infinity, who's name is Paradox or who is a Celestialsapien.

The black hole can be galaxy-sized and worked on Galactic Gladiator who via speed equal has the same speed as Goku (since he has equal speed to Alien X) and Alien X can create some white energy lasso (which makes you distort) to pull Goku in.

Here is Goku struggling against Hearts' gravity so he wouldn't resist stronger gravity such as a black hole and here is ToP Goku being unable to IT under extreme gravity.
Click to expand...
That's......Capsule Corp Goku not Xeno Goku and why are u bringing Canon Anime Goku here? you proved nothing
 
@Bad no this was discussed already in the upgrade thread, GG could have teleported at any time to get away from the black hole but was too busy thinking.

@Shubham isn't Xeno Goku equal to those 2 in abilities and weaknesses of this kind (not all abilities or weaknesses)? Like Super Goku's IT works like it did back in Dragon Ball Z which is canon to Xeno Goku?
 
Greenshifter said:
@Bad no this was discussed already in the upgrade thread, GG could have teleported at any time to get away from the black hole but was too busy thinking.
@Shubham isn't Xeno Goku equal to those 2 in abilities and weaknesses of this kind (not all abilities or weaknesses)? Like Super Goku's IT works like it did back in Dragon Ball Z which is canon to Xeno Goku?
Click to expand...
Not. even. remotely.

And can we please stop using "out-of-the-box" like an excuse for OoC actions. Yes, it can work usually but they way you describe it could result in people using the most convoluted reasoning for their character winning just because they see it as their nature to come up with odd solutions.

Anyway, Goku just needs to get one thought in to teleport away from the pull (since it's far from instantaneous) so him escaping is still very likely. And regarding the pocket world, no we cannot just arbitrarily assume it's in some inaccessible place outside the multiverse.

At best, I can see this moving back to inconclusive since Goku could just move between dimensions to keep on evading any lethal moves X might pull while all of his attacks will severely damage X. On the other hand, he would eventually just resort to lifeforce absorption seeing that he has no other way to put him down.

@Doorinmyhouse Pretty sure the reason GG couldn't escape from the black hole by flying (or anything really) was because he couldn't decide on what to do.
 
I mean Ben creating a black hole so that GG couldn't think anymore is the epitome of "what even is OoC for Ben as Alien X"?

I mean shouldn't everyone with IT have the same limitation as Super Goku has, even the Yardrats? Like if I made a match with Z Goku against someone with gravity manipulation, I could argue the weakness of the ability displayed in Super also applies to Z Goku right?

Also moving between dimensions is hard to do when you're getting sucked into a black hole, I think and Goku wouldn't know what is going on the first time around and might try attacking it like GG did which wouldn't work since the attack would pass through.

GG still tried to escape but didn't think about teleporting.
 
Greenshifter said:
I mean Ben creating a black hole so that GG couldn't think anymore is the epitome of "what even is OoC for Ben as Alien X"?
I mean shouldn't everyone with IT have the same limitation as Super Goku has, even the Yardrats?

Also moving between dimensions is hard to do when you're getting sucked into a black hole, I think and Goku wouldn't know what is going on the first time around and might try attacking it like GG did which wouldn't work since the attack would pass through.

GG still tried to escape but didn't think about teleporting.
Click to expand...
I don't mean it like that, sorry if that's what you thought. I definitely don't think it's an opening move but I agree that he'd use it in the fight sooner or later. What bothers me is how you tried to justify it with Ben thinking outside the box. Maybe you won't do it but I don't want to see more people talking about how Alien X would make a universe inside another dude's stomach.

Do you mean range or...? The former is rather unlikely as he can teleport wherever he senses KI. This Goku has far greater range, a different mindset and is vastly more powerful than canon. We only take weaknesses shown his his setting unless they're universal in both continuities. But you're better off asking someone more knowledgeable.

All he has to do is open a portal in front of him and he'd fall in there instead. And Goku isn't stupid, especially this one. He'd know what a black hole is and definitely know it isn't good for him to fall through. Moving out is definitely something he would do.

Hm, well if that's the case then Goku flying away would be an issue but I'm still confident about him teleportng or using portals to get away.
 
@planck69 partyl true, but we do also see him try to fly away from the blcl hole but getting sucked in regardless
 
Greenshifter said:
@Shubham isn't Xeno Goku equal to those 2 in abilities and weaknesses of this kind (not all abilities or weaknesses)? Like Super Goku's IT works like it did back in Dragon Ball Z which is canon to Xeno Goku?
Click to expand...
If I am correct Capsule Corp SSB kaioken Vegito was struggling against Cumber, yet SSB Gogeta defeated Hearts who is stronger than Cumber, hence you cannot bring SDBH as it's main aim is promotional stuff the scaling makes no sense
 
I don't mean it like that, sorry if that's what you thought. I definitely don't think it's an opening move but I agree that he'd use it in the fight sooner or later. What bothers me is how you tried to justify it with Ben thinking outside the box. Maybe you won't do it but I don't want to see more people talking about how Alien X would make a universe inside another dude's stomach.

Do you mean range or...? The former is rather unlikely as he can teleport wherever he senses KI. This Goku has far greater range, a different mindset and is vastly more powerful than canon. We only take weaknesses shown his his setting unless they're universal in both continuities. But you're better off asking someone more knowledgeable.

All he has to do is open a portal in front of him and he'd fall in there instead. And Goku isn't stupid, especially this one. He'd know what a black hole is and definitely know it isn't good for him to fall through. Moving out is definitely something he would do.

Hm, well if that's the case then Goku flying away would be an issue but I'm still confident about him teleportng or using portals to get away.

So what are Alien x and goku win cons than?
 
@Planck It's fine, @Door you just had to bring up the Ant-Man tactic OvO

No I meant the gravity limiting his IT

At least someone that recognizes a black hole, if even Goku can see it then why did it take 2 threads for this to be accepted?

But yeah if he can aim the portal then Ok.

Also I'd be more worried if it takes multiple tries for Goku to absorb Alien X's life-force that Bellicus and Serena will go like: No, we will not be destroyed and then transform his life-force into spaghetti (information manipulation).
 
@Shubham Ax's information manipulation comes from him being able to change how life-force/mana works, as a joke I say turn it into spaghetti but any messing with how life-force works would screw over Goku since he uses it for his attacks.
 
Greenshifter said:
@Shubham Ax's information manipulation comes from him being able to change how life-force/mana works, as a joke I say turn it into spaghetti but any messing with how life-force works would screw over Goku since he uses it for his attacks.
Click to expand...
Semi-related but doesn't that sound more like Law or Concept Manipulation?
 
Shubham Sonsurkar said:
Goku has resistence to Law, physics manipulation. Plus he can still fight as a Spaghetti
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I mean, the Info manip being used in this match is kinda iffy anyway since we have no idea where it's limitations lie or what it's true scope is beyond one statement that's never once substantiated in the series (to my knowledge). Feels like less assumptions would be made if X had more concrete reasons to win alongside info-hax.

Honestly, maybe I should have stuck with inconclusive.
 
It's concept manipulation for something that isn't a concept (mana) which results in information manipulation.

Technically creating a portal to the Forge is also a wincon for Ben since Goku can't get back and Ben knows that he can do that since Starbeard showed him. This is also more in-character if Goku starts spamming portals and Ben is like here have a portal of my own.
 
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