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Alien X should be 1-A High part 2

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Zamasu_Chan said:
I was asked to comment here. What happened?
Click to expand...
Nothing much. We're pretty much trying to figure out if Celestialsapiens should get reality warping or some really garbage plot manipulation since they apparently changed the VA's and shit.
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
I was asked to comment here. What happened?
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Since you know a bit about universes and stuff wanna answer this
Rez said:
Also found this on Ben 10 wiki
Is this enough for tier 2-C alien x?
P06-7_BEN10.jpg

Traced this scan to here:
www.tomfreelance.com

Cartoon Network comic pitch — Tom O'Malley

A selection of pages I wrote for a successful pitch to Warner Bros. to publish a Cartoon Network comic the UK. It was worth it just to discover the joy that is Adventure Time . Zoinks, what a show. Click pics to read at bigger size. An amazing cut-out-and-keep™ chick ma
www.tomfreelance.com www.tomfreelance.com
Click to expand...
 
Changing voices and appearances is not enough for plot manipulation, even if the implications are somewhat meta.
They already have universe-scale reality warping, I do not see how this can not be chalked up to that.

Also, being able to "destroy universes" is only a High 3-A to Low 2-C statement. It would only be higher if it was "destroy multiple universes at once".
We tier based on what they're capable of with a single attack. Destroying multiple universes one at a time is not 2-C.
 
Gohanblanco217 said:
I wouldn't say it's really garbage tho his plot manip allow him to reshape things into whatever he wants which give him biological manipulation so it's kind a good ability..... I think
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Actually no, changing artstyle or voice actor is not the same as biologically changing your appearance and voice, even if you change one's artstyle, their biology information still the same as thus they still retain their biological physiology
 
FinePoint said:
Changing voices and appearances is not enough for plot manipulation, even if the implications are somewhat meta.
They already have universe-scale reality warping, I do not see how this can not be chalked up to that.

Also, being able to "destroy universes" is only a High 3-A to Low 2-C statement. It would only be higher if it was "destroy multiple universes at once".
We tier based on what they're capable of with a single attack. Destroying multiple universes one at a time is not 2-C.
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It's stated in the Guide that Alien x can destroy multiple universes by just thinking about it which clearly refers to him doing it in a single attack effortlessly
 
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FinePoint said:
Changing voices and appearances is not enough for plot manipulation, even if the implications are somewhat meta.
They already have universe-scale reality warping, I do not see how this can not be chalked up to that.
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Well then only biological manipulation will get added to x's profile from here and the reality warping affected other timelines as well so it's 2-B in range
 
Gohanblanco217 said:
It's stated in the Guide that Alien x can destroy multiple universes by just thinking about it which clearly refers to him doing it in a single attack
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If you're talking about the most recent scan posted, I'd say that's a stretch.
It says he can destroy universes in one section, and that he does things via thought in another.
The wording seems to imply it would take multiple thoughts, rather than a single thought.
It may seem like a trivial distinction, but we do our best to be as accurate as possible, especially on higher tiers.
 
FinePoint said:
If you're talking about the most recent scan posted, I'd say that's a stretch.
It says he can destroy universes in one section, and that he does things via thought in another.
The wording seems to imply it would take multiple thoughts, rather than a single thought.
It may seem like a trivial distinction, but we do our best to be as accurate as possible, especially on higher tiers.
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Nah the statement is clear as a day it literally refers to Alien x being effortlessly able to one shots multiple universes by just thinking doing it
 
Alien x can create and destroy entire universes, so the risk is too great for Ben to use this upgrade again
Where does it imply he does it multiple attacks
 
azontr said:
You have to prove he did it by manipulating biology and not just some other power.
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Changing some character's biology via any power does qualify for biological manipulation or else over heaven dio should have all of his powers other than reality warping removed
 
Rez said:
Alien x can create and destroy entire universes, so the risk is too great for Ben to use this upgrade again
Where does it imply he does it multiple attacks
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Imagine I said "I can defeat 30 toddlers."
You would not assume I am strong enough to defeat 30 toddlers with one punch all at the same time, you would assume I'd defeat them with one punch each.
You would only assume a single punch if I explicitly said "I can defeat 30 toddlers in a single punch."
 
FinePoint said:
If I said "I can defeat 30 toddlers."
You would not assume I am strong enough to defeat 30 toddlers with one punch, you would assume I'd defeat each of them with one punch.
You would only assume a single punch if I explicitly said "I can defeat 30 toddlers in a single punch."
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Yes we do assume unless shown otherwise if someone says I can one shot 50 buildings then we assume that he can destroy them in a single punch unless shown otherwise
 
FinePoint said:
Imagine I said "I can defeat 30 toddlers."
You would not assume I am strong enough to defeat 30 toddlers with one punch all at the same time, you would assume I'd defeat each of them with one punch.
You would only assume a single punch if I explicitly said "I can defeat 30 toddlers in a single punch."
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Yeah the keyword here being assume
 
Rez said:
Yeah the keyword here being assume
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You are making an assumption either way, since the wording is ambiguous.
The more conservative assumption simply makes more sense based on the way most people speak.
If I said "A handgun could kill many people," you know that I do not mean the handgun could kill many people in one shot.
The same logic applies to the sentence here about universes.
 
FinePoint said:
You are making an assumption either way, since the wording is ambiguous.
The more conservative assumption simply makes more sense based on the way most people speak.
If I said "A handgun could kill many people," you know that I do not mean the handgun could kill many people in one shot.
The same logic applies to the sentence here about universes.
Click to expand...
So if a character said "I destroyed 1000 universes" we are not going to assume that he is 2-B because we don't know if he destroyed them in a single shot?
 
Wait that is burden proof. you need to proof that the character did it with several atacks not that the opponent has to debunk you
 
Correct. If all we're given is that they "Destroyed 1000 universes."
We know for certain they can destroy a universe,
we do not know for certain how many they destroyed at once, or how long it took.
Therefore, the most evidence leans towards just Low 2-C.

Context is important.
 
Gohanblanco217 said:
So if a character said "I destroyed 1000 universes" we are not going to assume that he is 2-B because we don't know if he destroyed them in a single shot?
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Yes. Context is important. If a character says “I can destroy stars” it doesn’t mean he’s 4-A but 4-C unless proven otherwise.
 
azontr said:
....Yes. More context is needed.
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Yeah no I disagree when someone says that he performed an action we assume that he can do it immediately and with a single shot it won't make any sense for someone to say that he can destroy 50 buildings while he knows that he can only destroy one at a time unless it was an hyperbole statement
 
Gohanblanco217 said:
Yeah no I disagree when someone says that he performed an action we assume that he can do it immediately and with a single shot it won't make any sense for someone to say that he can destroy 50 buildings while he knows that he can only destroy one at a time like at all
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Right, okay. Next time a boxer tells you that he's beaten 50 people, you should watch out because he could probably punch you in half by that logic.
 
Gohanblanco217 said:
Yeah no I disagree when someone says that he performed an action we assume that he can do it immediately and with a single shot it won't make any sense for someone to say that he can destroy 50 buildings while he knows that he can only destroy one at a time like at all
Click to expand...
So, you disagree that we need more context than just a single statement to accurately index a character. That's fun.
 
I killed 100 people.

Does this mean

a. I killed them all in one fell swoop.

or

b. I killed them one at a time.

Now this is easy. Because that statement lacks context
 
FinePoint said:
Right, okay. Next time a boxer tells you that he's beaten 50 people, you should watch out because he could probably punch you in half by that logic.
Click to expand...
Okay tell me why would someone say that he can destroy multiple universes if he knows that he can only destroy one at a time? That literally doesn't make sense
 
FinePoint said:
Right, okay. Next time a boxer tells you that he's beaten 50 people, you should watch out because he could probably punch you in half by that logic.
Click to expand...
oh nice false equivalance. a boxer doesnt have the range to K.O 50 people while alien x have and you still need to prove that he didnt do at the same time
 
Gohanblanco217 said:
Okay tell me why would someone say that he can destroy multiple universes if he knows that he can only destroy one at a time? That literally doesn't make sense
Click to expand...
Because they can still destroy multiple universes. Just not in a single shot. Which is the criteria that we use to give a character a tier.
 
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