-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Alien X 3-A Downgrade
- Thread starter TauanVictor
- Start date
- Status
Rez
He/Him- 4,830
- 1,967
Their are timelines that are formed because of changes in prime timeline and then their are also entirely unrelated timelines too i.e the timeline from which eon comes
- 711
- 149
Ok and btw did with that scan prove Ben 10 Cosmology is 2A since stated that "Infinity Pararel Worlds"?
- 10,398
- 4,564
Rez
He/Him- 4,830
- 1,967
No the ultimate Alien episode pretty much confirms that eons never existed in prime timeline and the race against time timeline is also entirely different
Rez
He/Him- 4,830
- 1,967
So it being infinite qualifies for 2-A?
- 10,398
- 4,564
The prime timeline is the timeline where Ben prime lives, if it branches it’s no longer the prime timeline.
According to me yes, but people took it to mean a single timeline is infinitely long for some reason (and they argue it’s contradicted by Paradox). Like imagine saying in DC Hypertime is infinite and it just meaning one timeline is infinitely long lol.
- 16,963
- 4,865
Guys, enough with the derailing. We aren’t here in this thread to discuss the cosmology
- 540
- 867
Agree with the downgrade FRA
- 9,266
- 3,411
Agree with 3-a Alien x
Rez
He/Him- 4,830
- 1,967
A Ben that goes from one timeline to another I forgot the reason but it involves killing other bens
- 1,050
- 491
I don't agree with the Alien X 3-A downgrade, because I believe he should be even lower.
He was "recreating the universe" only one galaxy at a time. "Universe" clearly wasn't synonymous with "spacetime continuum" in this instance. If space and time where somehow restored by what Alien X did, it was only on gradual, galactic scales, one at a time.
What Alien X did was spam rapid-fire galactic scale matter manipulations with some minor spacetime hax, if any.
He was "recreating the universe" only one galaxy at a time. "Universe" clearly wasn't synonymous with "spacetime continuum" in this instance. If space and time where somehow restored by what Alien X did, it was only on gradual, galactic scales, one at a time.
What Alien X did was spam rapid-fire galactic scale matter manipulations with some minor spacetime hax, if any.
- 3,141
- 3,602
this thread still going on?
- 7,638
- 7,806
While I plan on revising the page's justifications, Alien X's current rating should not change.
- 16,963
- 4,865
Then can you elaborate on why so we can continue? I understand being busy or too occupied, but that doesn’t negate the genuine arguments for the downgrade and the issues with Low 2-C (which now have to do the new standards for tier 2 that weren’t here in prior discussions) that Zamasu laid out and that many others here agree with.
Majority here have agreed with the downgrade and if counters against it can’t be made soon, then the downgrade shouldn’t be stalled. Apply the changes and make another thread later on when you do have time to make your case.
Majority here have agreed with the downgrade and if counters against it can’t be made soon, then the downgrade shouldn’t be stalled. Apply the changes and make another thread later on when you do have time to make your case.
Rez
He/Him- 4,830
- 1,967
It was already explained Alien X can tear through a barrier that was supposed to protect contumelia from the energy released by aniilargh during the creation of the universe and it's time
- 16,963
- 4,865
Unless I’m missing something, you can’t really tank a creation feat.
- 8,849
- 9,509
That’s not low 2-C because it never created a timeline. You wanna know the full definition of time? Read here: the measured or measurable period during which an action, process, or condition exists or continues.
All you need is 3 dimensional movement to create time. Hell, even movement from a 0 dimensional point can create time. So obviously this would mean movement from a 3D Big Bang can create time.
All you need is 3 dimensional movement to create time. Hell, even movement from a 0 dimensional point can create time. So obviously this would mean movement from a 3D Big Bang can create time.
You need to prove that it’s creating all of the past, present and future in a singular manifold.
- 7,638
- 7,806
According to the site's Tiering System, it does apply for Low 2-C
High 3-A: High Universe level
Characters who demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D area or an infinite number of finite or infinite universes when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time, or more generally any realm of comparable size. Large numbers of infinite universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.3
Low 2-C | Universe level+: Characters who are capable of significantly affecting, creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continuums of a universal scale. However, it can be more generally fulfilled by any 4-dimensional space that is either:
A) Equivalent to a large extra dimensional space. That is, a higher-dimensional "bulk" space which embeds lower-dimensional ones (Such as our universe) as subsets of itself, whose dimensions are not microscopic / compactified.
B) Portrayed as completely transcending lower-dimensional objects and spaces in the setting of a given work of fiction.
High 3-A: High Universe level
Characters who demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D area or an infinite number of finite or infinite universes when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time, or more generally any realm of comparable size. Large numbers of infinite universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.3
Low 2-C | Universe level+: Characters who are capable of significantly affecting, creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continuums of a universal scale. However, it can be more generally fulfilled by any 4-dimensional space that is either:
A) Equivalent to a large extra dimensional space. That is, a higher-dimensional "bulk" space which embeds lower-dimensional ones (Such as our universe) as subsets of itself, whose dimensions are not microscopic / compactified.
B) Portrayed as completely transcending lower-dimensional objects and spaces in the setting of a given work of fiction.
- 15,470
- 5,060
We're talking about the barrier that can protect from the creation of the universe & its time, not the creation of the universe & its time on its own. Similar to this the Big Bang page points out how "Surviving a Low 2-C Big Bang isn't a Universe level+ feat in durability", this barrier doing more or less the same isn't either, thus destroying it isn't Low 2-C, if still very notable.
- 7,638
- 7,806
Would that include pulling the released Universal 4-D energy back to its point of origin?
- 43,120
- 37,267
Because you'd have to literally be on top of it and be leaving 0 open areas to take 3-A damage. Being even miles away would bring how much damage to being 3-B at best.
- 1,050
- 491
I was talking about Low 2-C Big Bangs, the kind that are considered natural expansions of spacetime itself.
- 7,638
- 7,806
Sorry, can you rephrase that?
- 43,120
- 37,267
Varies due to to context. If it's Low 2-C creation then 9/10 creation doesn't scale to durability.
- 1,050
- 491
Why? If you survived a natural Low 2-C Big Bang, how does that not scale to durability? It's not like the Low 2-C Big Bang somehow isn't capable of physically affecting anything.
- 7,638
- 7,806
Can you rephrase this as well?
My_area
He/Him- 1,239
- 554
He elaborates on Paradox words by saying something which isn't shown or implied at all in Ben 10 verse, nor does it match up with total number of dimensions being in Ben 10 verse which is 26 as opposed to 10 or 11 in M theory. Also how lower dimensions being percieve higher dimensional being( by seeing the thing which sways their heart the most) doesn't match with M theory. So it shouldn't be used if you ask me.
It wouldn't unless we have actual evidence that it follows the theory in verse. The closest we got is vague statement of Maltruent saying "timstream is infinite" which can just mean time being infinite which doesn't mean 2-A.
He was recreating multiple galaxies at a time, also why does it matter when his 1 creation ability in the end creates a whole universe. Its not like that he is spamming multiple creation ability to create a universe. He just recreates a whole universe with no implication of using multiple abilities or anything like that.
He was stated in the episode where this feat happened and the episode where he fights against Galactic Gladiator to recreate the universe. Why wouldn't this be simple creation feat instead of all the matter manipulation hax which is being assumed?
This literally doesn't make any sense. Time is basically a temporal dimension ie its temporal axis which then defines motion of spatial dimension in a infinitesimally small intervals of time.
How can a 3 dimensional movement or a 0 dimensional movement create time when in former case its simply movement across 3 spatial dimensions and in latter its movement across 0 spatial dimensions. How is that going to create any time ie temporal dimension?
Time is literally a timeline in its pure sense since timeline is flow of time from past to the future just except timeline in our case isn't just pure time but time fused with spatial dimensions. How can creating time be seperated from creating timeline? Those 2 are literally the same thing.
- 3,566
- 879
Even if the low 2-C creation is done via pure energy explosion? That doesn't make sense.
Last edited:
- 8,857
- 5,697
I wanna say something. Remember when ben told bellicus and serena to restore the universe but they said it was too late? Alien X is able to reverse time but he couldn't reverse the universe being destroyed, this could mean that the universe's time was being destroyed as well. Alien X instead recreated it.
- 16,963
- 4,865
I think what his point here on this was that Alien X wouldn’t be recreating the whole universe in a single instance. It’s less to do with what hax was used and more to do with the manner and speed of how the feat is performed. Yes, the end result is that the universe was recreated, as you said, but the process implies it’s not true universal AP at work when Alien X wouldn’t be restoring the universe all at once in one instance, but rather, is restoring it by one galaxy at a time. Or multiple galaxies at a time.
Would you consider someone planet level for destroying a planet little by little instead of one shotting it?
TypeOU
He/Him- 1,322
- 739
not relevant anyway, he still has his barrier feat
- 16,963
- 4,865
Which doesn’t change anything as said above.
- Status
Similar threads
