Alex Mercer vs Sonic

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Lets not forget his opponent looks like a human and pretty non threatining...

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

@Death

1. True, but the point remains is Alex isn't someone who takes things seriously overall. I mean he's fighting a 3 foot hedgehog. He'll probably just go easy on him for 5 secs. Which is enough for Sonic to "blitz" him wityh his AP and hax. Since Sonic doesn't take dangerous beings like him likely. He'll observe him, find out what move is best suitable to him, and attack.

2. Infected or just killed with whatever abilities Alex had up on his shoulders. And I'll talk more about the gas in my 3rd point. Sonic most likely starts off with his best abilities. He used Chaos Control during his fight with Shadow in their third fight and he was spamming too, during his events in the games he always use his item boxes for offensive and defensive purposes and in games like Generations, Lost World, and Runners, he canonically carries them around, his other abilities like Magic Hands in SA2 he used them even on fodder GUN robots, and he used Time Break on the Ifrit (Sure he attacked first but that's only when he saw it as another one of those big fodder Eggman robots he takes down, but my point still stands)

3. Since it's gas, why can't Sonic just blow it away? After all, he does have wind powers and can create and manipulate tornadoes at will and other weather phenomenons.

 

[Godhand1999]

I'm a bit tired of the misconception of "Sonic not using his hax first because he's cocky" first of all this concept is just utterly wrong. Why? Because just because Sonic is "cocky" that doesn't mean it's going to hinder him in battle. According to SBA, characters can still kill each other naturally. Sonic has all of his equipment available to him at this current time. There is literally NO reason why Sonic can't use his hax, that is just dumb. If the opponent is a threat and is really strong? Sonic's first thought isn't going to be "Well, I'm going to spin dash or homing attack the enemy"

Sonic is not stupid. Also, Alex Mercer has some kind of gaseous substance he can send out? Why would Sonic NOT use his hax to counteract that kind of thing? Because he's "cocky"? No, if there is a threat and it's really strong? Sonic will find another way to take the enemy out. Sonic is not going to spindash or homing attack his way to victory. If Sonic sees something like that, he's going to formulate another viable strategy instead. Since Sonic has better overall abilities and just better hax in general from the color powers to chaos control. Sonic literally will decimate Alex Mercer with absolute ease.

SBA does not state that CIS is disregarded for a character. And none of what you've said proves that Sonic would even resort to that to completely unknown enemies he has faced. SBA does not state that the characters are bloodlusted, just "in-character but willing to kill".
You guys argued this and that about "Sonic isn't stupid, he can do X hax from the start", yet none of you guys has ever provided cutscenes or on-screen lore feats of Sonic even starting off with such hax abilities.

You're not understanding the situation here. None of what you said previously even remotely makes sense, you are not understanding Sonic's character. Sonic has fought various opponents that were unknown to him throughout his games and has used hax in battle. Yes, the characters are in character and willing to kill which means that in Sonic's eyes Alex Mercer is a viable threat. Sonic is not going to spindash or homing attack his opponent at first if the enemy is actually a legitimate threat. Sonic is going to perform another strategy to overcome him.

Sonic has spammed Chaos Control in his battle with Shadow. He has used Time Break in his battle with one of the monsters in Secret Rings. Sonic has even exploited various weak points like Chaos's brain and or Eggman's mechs. Also, these aren't just some run on the mill enemies either. One is a god and the other is a scientist with an IQ of 300. If half of you people actually assume Sonic is as cocky to the point where he's not going to use hax, then you're effectively downplaying the character itself.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Lets not forget his opponent looks like a human and pretty non threatining...

Can't be any less threatening than an obese egg-shaped human in a jumpsuit whose name is "Dr. Eggman."

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

He's got experience with egg man though, sonic knows eggman is a threat. He doesn't know alex

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Alex first move against fodder and weakinglings is gassing to create an infected zone. The gas covered 200 meters in about a second, two max.

Why would he use his best hax against a human he doesn't know anything about? Alex isn't shadow, hes not some giant threatening monster. Hes an average looking human that sonic wants to take down. Not even a robot, a simple sick looking human. All the examples you provided are either against powerful characters or parts of large robot groups, alex is a single target. He's not gonna use hax right off the bat, he's cocky and alex isn't threatening.

Sonic is willing to kill, nothing more, he doesn't get prior all he knows is he wan'ts to kill alex. Confusing sba standards does not the victory make

He could blow it away but by the time he does that he'll have already touched the gas, at which point mercer has won. Your arguments keep comeing back to instances of sonic using hax against powerful opponents, many of which he knows, or robots who appear in large crowds. All of that ignroes the fact the feats against fodder are usually gameplay...So provide a cutscene where sonic against a non threatening opponent used his hax at the start.

 

[Emissary_From_Hell]

While Sonic may be very confident in his own abilities, he's still been shown in multiple instances to take smart and pragmatical approaches to combat, including making use of his hax.
Sonic has every reason to avoid Mercer's gas attack. If Sonic is gives a chance to react to it, he'll likely resort to using his hax to avoid it. After all, Sonic does have a history that should make him weary of gas based attacks (SA1), and we know from when Sonic faced off against the Ifrit Golem (Secret Rings) that he is willing to fall back on his hax when he sees no other option, which is further backed up by instances like in SA2 when he uses Chaos Control to escape Eggman's trap.
Unless Mercer's gas powers involve some kind of invisible gas that Sonic couldn't see, he'd just use hax to avoid it when necessary.

 

[DeathNoodles]

While Sonic may be very confident in his own abilities, he's still been shown in multiple instances to take smart and pragmatical approaches to combat, including making use of his hax.
Sonic has every reason to avoid Mercer's gas attack. If Sonic is gives a chance to react to it, he'll likely resort to using his hax to avoid it. After all, Sonic does have a history that should make him weary of gas based attacks (SA1), and we know from when Sonic faced off against the Ifrit Golem (Secret Rings) that he is willing to fall back on his hax when he sees no other option, which is further backed up by instances like in SA2 when he uses Chaos Control to escape Eggman's trap.
Unless Mercer's gas powers involve some kind of invisible gas that Sonic couldn't see, he'd just use hax to avoid it when necessary.

Finally, someone from Sonic's side has provided examples at least.

Anyways, the key point here is "when he sees no other option". For the Ifrit Golem scenario, it sounds as if Sonic only resorts to that when he has no other ways to defeat them. This doesn't really show that Sonic doesn't start off with his hax as a result (I mean, "when he sees no other option"? That doesn't sound like he starts off with them). One problem here is, the only esoteric abilities you've provided is that Sonic can use Chaos Control to teleport out of a trap, you see... Sonic needs a Chaos emerald of some kind to be able to use such.

And I'm not even sure what Sonic even does when he has encountered gasses in the canon. Does he just run through them? Does he run away? Does he teleport? etc. And there must be a cutscene example of Sonic using hax to avoid such. If it turns out that he just runs through them or runs away... Well, you get the point.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Yes he has, but mercer is a single person, who looks like the average human. When has sonic ever opened against a lone unarmed human with hax? When has he ever shown a propensity to abuse hax against an enemey he has no prior knowledge of and doesn't appear to be a threat.

Sonic does have experience with gas but he's also liable to spindash/sheild charge mercer before going for his hax as he has no reason to believe mercer can survive that. He ends up touching the gas and he dies seconds later. Sonic never gets the chance to deal with the gas, he can erase from existence but after touching him his body has already been destroyed at the molecular level. He could teleport away but it's to late when he finally does.

You just stated that sonic falls back on hax when desperate! He's not desperate, he's just trying to murder a random human, why on gods green earth would he start with his hax? when has he shown this propensity to abuse hax against a single mook target in cutscenes? He's cocky, mercer doesn't seem threatening, all the gas needs to do is touch him and he dies.

How I see this going at the moment is sonic spindash/sheild charges turns mercer into ash/vapor whatever else, then sonic dies to the gas and merce recovers.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

@The pen or the sword "A simple sick looking human."

More like a creepy dude in a hoodie where he looks like some gang member.

Also while Sonic has a cocky personality, it doesn't hinder him in combat. If what you're thinking is that he's just gonna stand and make jokes while Alex throws gas at him then no, Sonic isn't stupid.

Since I haven't voted yet, Sonic FRA.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Thats not what I said at all, what is your argument for sonic winning here? That he'll open with hax? Mercer doesn't need him to stand still, he simply needs sonic to not open with his hax. Which sonic hasn't shown a propensity to do against infinitly weaker and lone opponents.

edit so sonic goes around transmuting sick looking gang members? Good to know ill warn the local gangs to stay inside if they get the flu

 

[DeathNoodles]

@The pen or the sword "A simple sick looking human."

More like a creepy dude in a hoodie where he looks like some gang member.

Also while Sonic has a cocky personality, it doesn't hinder him in combat. If what you're thinking is that he's just gonna stand and make jokes while Alex throws gas at him then no, Sonic isn't stupid.

Since I haven't voted yet, Sonic FRA.

Show me evidence that Sonic has used those hax abilities against gangster-looking humans. Show me a cutscene of Sonic using the aforementioned hax against human thugs straight way at the start, and then we'll talk.

Because as far as I can tell, most of the users supporting Sonic's side didn't even provide any viable arguments.

 

[Godhand1999]

Alex first move against fodder and weakinglings is gassing to create an infected zone. The gas covered 200 meters in about a second, two max.
Why would he use his best hax against a human he doesn't know anything about? Alex isn't shadow, hes not some giant threatening monster. Hes an average looking human that sonic wants to take down. Not even a robot, a simple sick looking human. All the examples you provided are either against powerful characters or parts of large robot groups, alex is a single target. He's not gonna use hax right off the bat, he's cocky and alex isn't threatening.

Sonic is willing to kill, nothing more, he doesn't get prior all he knows is he wan'ts to kill alex. Confusing sba standards does not the victory make

He could blow it away but by the time he does that he'll have already touched the gas, at which point mercer has won. Your arguments keep comeing back to instances of sonic using hax against powerful opponents, many of which he knows, or robots who appear in large crowds. All of that ignroes the fact the feats against fodder are usually gameplay...So provide a cutscene where sonic against a non threatening opponent used his hax at the start.

Nice, so Sonic becomes invisible AND intangible so that wouldn't affect Sonic in any way shape or form.

Pen, have you seen a picture of Alex Mercer? Have you seen the scythe that he swings around to literally chop off people's heads? You're telling me Sonic is not going to take that seriously? As soon as Sonic sees that deadly weapon Alex has? Sonic is taking precautions to counteract that with his hax. Sonic could quite literally stop time and body him with Violet Void.

Also, you do realize that Sonic didn't even know who Shadow even was when he first met him in SA2? Yet, Sonic was able to deduce that he was using the Chaos Emeralds to warp space/time? Therefore, Sonic could deduce that Alex's gas is an actual threat and make his body intangible so that it doesn't affect him. Alex is not "non-threatening" that weapon he carries along with the gaseous substances he spreads out are deadly, Sonic will fight against it with his own powers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDHljVFzvcs&feature=youtu.be&t=3110

51:53

Sonic literally uses "Time Break" in a cutscene. Alex is as good as dead

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

"Merc recovers."

You do know this is a 7-C vs a 5-B right? Sonic's AP advantage literally atomizes him and bypasses his regen.

 

[Emissary_From_Hell]

While Sonic may be very confident in his own abilities, he's still been shown in multiple instances to take smart and pragmatical approaches to combat, including making use of his hax.
Sonic has every reason to avoid Mercer's gas attack. If Sonic is gives a chance to react to it, he'll likely resort to using his hax to avoid it. After all, Sonic does have a history that should make him weary of gas based attacks (SA1), and we know from when Sonic faced off against the Ifrit Golem (Secret Rings) that he is willing to fall back on his hax when he sees no other option, which is further backed up by instances like in SA2 when he uses Chaos Control to escape Eggman's trap.
Unless Mercer's gas powers involve some kind of invisible gas that Sonic couldn't see, he'd just use hax to avoid it when necessary.

Finally, someone from Sonic's side has provided examples at least.
Anyways, the key point here is "when he sees no other option". For the Ifrit Golem scenario, it sounds as if Sonic only resorts to that when he has no other ways to defeat them. This doesn't really show that Sonic doesn't start off with his hax as a result (I mean, "when he sees no other option"? That doesn't sound like he starts off with them). One problem here is, the only esoteric abilities you've provided is that Sonic can use Chaos Control to teleport out of a trap, you see... Sonic needs a Chaos emerald of some kind to be able to use such.

And I'm not even sure what Sonic even does when he has encountered gasses in the canon. Does he just run through them? Does he run away? Does he teleport? etc.

Well, as the Golem Ifrit example shows, Sonic also has access to Time Break. Once Mercer uses his gas attack, Sonic realizing his own potential vulnerability to it, would activate Time Break or potentially use one of his Wisp abilities to allow a better control of the situation altogether and/or as a means of escape.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Also, you do realize that Sonic didn't even know who Shadow even was when he first met him in SA2? Yet, Sonic was able to deduce that he was using the Chaos Emeralds to warp space/time? Therefore, Sonic could deduce that Alex's gas is an actual threat and make his body intangible so that it doesn't affect him. Alex is not "non-threatening" that weapon he carries along with the gaseous substances he spreads out are deadly, Sonic will fight against it with his own powers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDHljVFzvcs&feature=youtu.be&t=3110

51:53

Sonic literally uses "Time Break" in a cutscene. Alex is as good as dead

There is no "weapon" Sonic would ever see from Mercer. All he would see is some guy in a hoodie. Of course he wouldn't resort to going all out from the start or using his hax from the very beginning. Why would you attack what looks like an unarmed hoodied human?

The Shadow cutscenes from SA2 isn't a good example when it took Sonic getting defeated the first time and then realising Shadow has teleported after it has already been used. Sonic wouldn't even have the time to deduce anything before the gas surrounds him, and when that happens, he would already be broken down molecularly.

The video you've provided comes from Sonic using Time Break against an opponent that he knows he would struggle with. Against Mercer, who Sonic wouldn't know at all... Why should Sonic resort to such? I'm pretty sure he won't unless you provide me with a cutscene of Sonic using such hax abilities from the start against human characters.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

You are aware that isn't a scythe right? Thats ...Thats just his arm, he doesn't have that out in most cases hes a shapeshifter. So no he looks like a normal human until he shapeshifts, he does look a bit thuggish but outside that he's normal.

That could work how fast can he go from tangible to intangible? Can he do it before a majority of his body has been broken down at the molecular level? Can he do it as he experiences two seconds of unbearable agony as his body is rewritten at the gentic level? WIll he stay intangible forever? Cause if not he returns to tangibility and the virus finishes consuming him.

so your argument is that another black hedgehog warping time and space that sonic opened with hax against, after realizing he was doing it proves he'll open with hax against a sickly looking human that doesn't appear to be a threat?

The video you provided shows a very threatening opponent that sonics knows he'll struggle with. He lost to shadow before realizing shadow had a threatening power to him....So whats your point

Again sonic is willing to kill, he doesn't know alex is anything more then a weird guy in a hoodie...

 

[Godhand1999]

@The pen or the sword "A simple sick looking human."

More like a creepy dude in a hoodie where he looks like some gang member.

Also while Sonic has a cocky personality, it doesn't hinder him in combat. If what you're thinking is that he's just gonna stand and make jokes while Alex throws gas at him then no, Sonic isn't stupid.

Since I haven't voted yet, Sonic FRA.

Show me evidence that Sonic has used those hax abilities against gangster-looking humans. Show me a cutscene of Sonic using the aforementioned hax against human thugs straight way at the start, and then we'll talk.
Because as far as I can tell, most of the users supporting Sonic's side didn't even provide any viable arguments.

Why? When Sonic has fought even more powerful enemies and has used his hax on them?

Just because Alex is a human, that doesn't mean Sonic is going to take it easy. He's literally going to mop the floor with him, if he's a threat. Which he actually is, since he has the power to release a gas which is deadly.

It's like your ignorning what's listed on Sonic's profile. You keep resorting to Alex's ability to become gas or send it out, yet Sonic has so many abilities that can counter it. Sonic is cocky, but it's not hindering him in combat. Sonic is a combat genius, he's exploited weakpoints from various foes and the like. Tell me what Alex will do after Sonic slows down time, becomes invisible and intagiable, and wipes the floor with him with Violet Void.

 

[Godhand1999]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE9yPDzVwvM

7:11

Sonic has dealt with gasous stuff before.

Also, Chemical Plant is another instance of Sonic dealing with deadly or gaseous substances.

As soon as Alex Mercer becomes a gaseous form? Sonic is not going to spindash or homing attack the enemy. He's going to use his ability to become intagiable AND invisibile which is good because Alex now can't see or infect him, then use Violet Void to literally atomize his body to pieces.

It's over, lol. Sonic wins

 

[DeathNoodles]

Why? When Sonic has fought even more powerful enemies and has used his hax on them?

Just because Alex is a human, that doesn't mean Sonic is going to take it easy. He's literally going to mop the floor with him, if he's a threat. Which he actually is, since he has the power to release a gas which is deadly.

It's like your ignorning what's listed on Sonic's profile. You keep resorting to Alex's ability to become gas or send it out, yet Sonic has so many abilities that can counter it. Sonic is cocky, but it's not hindering him in combat. Sonic is a combat genius, he's exploited weakpoints from various foes and the like. Tell me what Alex will do after Sonic slows down time, becomes invisible and intagiable, and wipes the floor with him with Violet Void.

Sonic fighting powerful enemies and using hax on them does not prove that he would use his hax on human-looking enemies or those that looks like ordinary humans.

He wouldn't even know that Mercer is that much of a threat until Mercer's gasses gets released, which would already rendered Sonic into being infected. In fact, Sonic wouldn't even know that Mercer even has gasses until it already happens, at which point he would be a goner.

I am not ignoring anything in Sonic's profile. I am asking for proof of Sonic using that against completely unknown enemies that are human-looking, and all I see is examples of enemies that Sonic knows are powerful, or ones that aren't human-looking. Many humans in the Sonic-verse aren't even a threat outside of Eggman (and even he is closer to an ordinary human without his genius intelligence).

 

[DeathNoodles]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE9yPDzVwvM

7:11

Sonic has dealt with gasous stuff before.

Also, Chemical Plant is another instance of Sonic dealing with deadly or gaseous substances.

As soon as Alex Mercer becomes a gaseous form? Sonic is not going to spindash or homing attack the enemy. He's going to use his ability to become intagiable AND invisibile which is good because Alex now can't see or infect him, then use Violet Void to literally atomize his body to pieces.

It's over, lol. Sonic wins

You literally just provided an example of Sonic "dealing" (more like experiencing) with something when it has already happened. And Sonic didn't even dodged that or use his hax abilities or anything. He got knocked to unconscious by the sleep gas. That doesn't prove anything about Sonic using the aforementioned hax abilities from the very start.

And I'm pretty sure the chemical plant thing got debunked somewhere, and I'm pretty sure Sonic ran through those gasses in that scene, not actually using his hax to deal with it or anything. Sonic trying to run through Mercer's gas would get him infected here.

Your argument kind of falls apart when Sonic didn't even "deal with" that gas attack properly.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Sonic does but he's cocky and alex looks non threatening you need feats of sonic opening with hax against a non threatening, single enemy? Sonic could mop the floor, he won't because in character he's not gonna waste time on hax when he thinks he can simply reduce alex to ash with a single hit. If you have a feat to show sonic will bother with hax against a single, non threatening, unarmed opponent he knows nothing about present them.

No I read sonics profile, the problem is for all sonics abilities they aren't liable to be his first move against what he would view as single unarmed human. The problem, said opponents first move will be hax, hax he doesn't resist. He hits mercer reduces him to a pile of ash/vapor, then collapses in agony from molecular breakdown.

The chemical plant doesn't have what kind of chemicals listed. So seeing as it lacks feats of resisting molecular infection it's meaningless here. Expereince with gas doesn't help when he doesn't know the gas is there until he's already been exposed.

Alex doesn't become gas, he releases it, sonic hitting him will reduce him to vapor but alex regen means he comes back from that while sonic dies to the gas...

Really the votes don't seem to agree with your argument...

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

"Merc recovers."
You do know this is a 7-C vs a 5-B right? Sonic's AP advantage literally atomizes him and bypasses his regen.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Nope no ap gap allows for atomization Ive asked bambu to be sure. The best you can get is vaporization via pure ap

 

[DeathNoodles]

And you do know that higher AP doesn't mean atomization unless the character has explicitly shown to do such in their verse via higher AP gap, right?

Edit: Link to the threat showing why having higher AP doesn't necessarily mean atomization, answers which are provided by the staff such as admins.

 

[Godhand1999]

Also, you do realize that Sonic didn't even know who Shadow even was when he first met him in SA2? Yet, Sonic was able to deduce that he was using the Chaos Emeralds to warp space/time? Therefore, Sonic could deduce that Alex's gas is an actual threat and make his body intangible so that it doesn't affect him. Alex is not "non-threatening" that weapon he carries along with the gaseous substances he spreads out are deadly, Sonic will fight against it with his own powers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDHljVFzvcs&feature=youtu.be&t=3110

51:53

Sonic literally uses "Time Break" in a cutscene. Alex is as good as dead

There is no "weapon" Sonic would ever see from Mercer. All he would see is some guy in a hoodie. Of course he wouldn't resort to going all out from the start or using his hax from the very beginning. Why would you attack what looks like an unarmed hoodied human?
The Shadow cutscenes from SA2 isn't a good example when it took Sonic getting defeated the first time and then realising Shadow has teleported after it has already been used. Sonic wouldn't even have the time to deduce anything before the gas surrounds him, and when that happens, he would already be broken down molecularly.

The video you've provided comes from Sonic using Time Break against an opponent that he knows he would struggle with. Against Mercer, who Sonic wouldn't know at all... Why should Sonic resort to such? I'm pretty sure he won't unless you provide me with a cutscene of Sonic using such hax abilities from the start against human characters.

Well, that "guy in a hoodie" is releasing deadly toxins and gases that can kill people. That "guy in a hoodie" also can chop off people's heads with his mutated form that he assumes. Alex is going to kill is he not? Then he's going to use his gases right? So, therefore once Sonic sees that happening then Sonic is going to use the wide variety of abilities in his arsenal to overcome the threat. It doesn't matter if Alex is a human, if it's a threat and the characters are going to kill? It shouldn't matter what speices the opponents are.

Sonic did not get defeated by Shadow in SA2. Sonic literally deduced what kind of hax he was using and then later on spammed the living crap out of it in his battle. He was never defeated in SA2, that's made up. If the gas gets close, then Sonic uses his color powers to become invisible and intangiable. Alex Mercer therefore can't see nor hurt Sonic's body, lol.

Because if Sonic sees the gases that are coming at him, Sonic isn't going to stand there silly and not utilize the abilities he has within his arsenal. You keep hogging on the argument on Sonic not using hax against a human looking character. It doesn't matter, both characters are required to kill each other in this match and while in character, one of them is going to die. Sonic has better abilities and overall hax compared to Mercer. 90% of the arguments in this thread relies on him either being a human or him using his gas.

Him being a human is irrelvant and the gas stuff can be easily countered. Sonic is winning here

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

And you do know that higher AP doesn't mean atomization unless the character has explicitly shown to do such in their verse via higher AP gap, right?
Edit: Link to the threat showing why having higher AP doesn't necessarily mean atomization, answers which are provided by the staff such as admins.

Funny, that's not what they said at all. You absolutely can atomize someone with sheer AP, like how atomizing a human is 8-C.

 

[Godhand1999]

Why? When Sonic has fought even more powerful enemies and has used his hax on them?

Just because Alex is a human, that doesn't mean Sonic is going to take it easy. He's literally going to mop the floor with him, if he's a threat. Which he actually is, since he has the power to release a gas which is deadly.

It's like your ignorning what's listed on Sonic's profile. You keep resorting to Alex's ability to become gas or send it out, yet Sonic has so many abilities that can counter it. Sonic is cocky, but it's not hindering him in combat. Sonic is a combat genius, he's exploited weakpoints from various foes and the like. Tell me what Alex will do after Sonic slows down time, becomes invisible and intagiable, and wipes the floor with him with Violet Void.

Sonic fighting powerful enemies and using hax on them does not prove that he would use his hax on human-looking enemies or those that looks like ordinary humans.
He wouldn't even know that Mercer is that much of a threat until Mercer's gasses gets released, which would already rendered Sonic into being infected. In fact, Sonic wouldn't even know that Mercer even has gasses until it already happens, at which point he would be a goner.

I am not ignoring anything in Sonic's profile. I am asking for proof of Sonic using that against completely unknown enemies that are human-looking, and all I see is examples of enemies that Sonic knows are powerful, or ones that aren't human-looking. Many humans in the Sonic-verse aren't even a threat outside of Eggman (and even he is closer to an ordinary human without his genius intelligence).

More ad-nauseam I see? This has been debunked. Both characters are in character, but are required to kill one another. It doesn't matter if Alex is human, if Alex attacks Sonic? Sonic will counteract and use his abilities. Nobody cares if he's human, Alex has powers and he's willing to kill. That's all that's needed to understand this scenario.

You literally think Sonic is going to stand there and let the gases effect him? Wrong. As soon as those deadly toxins are released, Sonic becomes intangiable and invisible.

It doesn't matter if they are human looking. If they are a threat, if they hold powers and abilities that are used for killing? Then Sonic will have no choice but to atomize him. Simple

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

Taking out my vote from Alex. If that's the case then atomizing Alex is an option.

Also I know for sure that Non passive abilities OHKOing someone is fair...

But setting up the scene so that the speed is equalized and the enemy is gonna 'tank' the OHKO ability with no chance to fight back is an issue. It's Rohan BS all over again.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Well, that "guy in a hoodie" is releasing deadly toxins and gases that can kill people. That "guy in a hoodie" also can chop off people's heads with his mutated form that he assumes. Alex is going to kill is he not? Then he's going to use his gases right? So, therefore once Sonic sees that happening then Sonic is going to use the wide variety of abilities in his arsenal to overcome the threat. It doesn't matter if Alex is a human, if it's a threat and the characters are going to kill? It shouldn't matter what speices the opponents are.

Sonic did not get defeated by Shadow in SA2. Sonic literally deduced what kind of hax he was using and then later on spammed the living crap out of it in his battle. He was never defeated in SA2, that's made up. If the gas gets close, then Sonic uses his color powers to become invisible and intangiable. Alex Mercer therefore can't see nor hurt Sonic's body, lol.

Because if Sonic sees the gases that are coming at him, Sonic isn't going to stand there silly and not utilize the abilities he has within his arsenal. You keep hogging on the argument on Sonic not using hax against a human looking character. It doesn't matter, both characters are required to kill each other in this match and while in character, one of them is going to die. Sonic has better abilities and overall hax compared to Mercer. 90% of the arguments in this thread relies on him either being a human or him using his gas.

Him being a human is irrelvant and the gas stuff can be easily countered. Sonic is winning here

And how would Sonic even know any of this? Standard Battle Assumptions literally says that neither character has prior knowledge over the other, and Mercer has shown to gas from the very start even against uninfected fodder. And Sonic literally won't even see that happening until the gasses has already covered the entire area they're in. With speed equalised, Sonic isn't going to physically escape from that easily, and you didn't even provide examples on Sonic using the hax abilities to defeat human-looking enemies such as Alex Mercer. And it does matter when one character is outright portrayed to be cocky (them "not being stupid" doesn't change the fact that they're cocky") and when there isn't any proof that they used said hax against human fodders from the very start, especially when a majority of these humans are known to not be a threat in the Mobian world (Sonic-verse).

Yeah, I misworded it when I said Sonic got defeated by Shadow. What I meant to say was "Shadow has escaped from Sonic". That still doesn't change the fact that Sonic has only started deducing that Shadow has teleported after it has already happened. That means Sonic deducing things isn't going to be helpful when he doesn't even have the time to do so.

It does matter when CIS is viable in a match, Standard Battle Assumptions says that neither character has prior knowledge over the other (so Sonic wouldn't know that a hoodied human is going to be a threat just from looking at him, when he doesn't even know about the said hoodied human), and Sonic having better abilities and overall hax is irrelevant when you didn't even provide any cutscenes or on-screen feat of him using them against human-looking enemies.

So yes, Mercer looking like an ordinary human is relevant here.

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

Just something I've noticed about game characters.

We don't see these guys use their more potent hax in character cause game mechanics. So stop saying dumb stuff like "he doesn't use them in character DURR". It's like they forgot they playing a video game. Why you think they can't use Chaos Control with Shadow in other games besides his own? Plus think about it: If the games let you use Sonic's most powerful haxxes all the time, especially in final bosses, the game would end pretty quickly. Hence why the game limits you with Homing attacks and spin dashes. The only times he used close combat is on enemies he perceives to be weaker than him. If there's a threat, he'll go all out to stop it. Even using techniques you thought he won't use. And if some person doesn't look like a threat, that's where his quills come into play. They help him sense an incoming threat. Like some sort of spider sense (Or his sneezes). I mean why you think his battle with Emerl in Sonic Battle only lasted about 30 seconds?

He can't just start off just going close up to someone and punch them without no strategy involved. He has analytic prediction and accelerated development. Sonic should have some form of intelligent fighting strategy. I mean what if I tell you Sonic straight up analyze his foes to see which part of the body he can harm the most/touch if he's going against someone who's intangible or made up of water? Also, can we please stop saying "[Insert Video Game character here] starts off with [Insert assuming ability/technique they have]" like you personally know them? Just like Sonic, they're game characters. They're limited in the actions they can do in one game than the other. But for Alex's case, he seems to have more visual evidence to what he starts off with. Unlike characters like Sonic, Rex, Mega Man, Dante, Shulk, Joker, etc.

For example: I heard back then people say Mega Man starts off with pellets rather than his other abilities. That's ******* stupid. Just because he has no other powers to wield before than, doesn't mean he won't use them for the other bosses. Also, he should regain the other powers he gets from other robots from past games. The reason he can't use them in other games is quite simply: Capcom doesn't want an easy Mega Man. Plus they probably want you to try out the other abilities they give you for Mega Man. Ignore what they said about Archie Mega Man. That's on Archie's side of the Mega Man canon. Same for the weapon gauge. Story wise, it wouldn't make sense for Mega Man to get a gauge showing how much weapon energy he has. If so, he'll get creamed by everyone of Wily's robots.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Taking out my vote from Alex. If that's the case then atomizing Alex is an option.

Also I know for sure that Non passive abilities OHKOing someone is fair...

But setting up the scene so that the speed is equalized and the enemy is gonna 'tank' the OHKO ability with no chance to fight back is an issue. It's Rohan BS all over again.

Boi, this thread says that atomising through sheer AP needs explicit proof of the characters doing that in their setting with higher AP. And I'm pretty sure asking one of the staff would give you the same answer.

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

Sonic has 4 ways of handling the gas:

1: Wisps to go intangible

2: Time manipulation

3: Sonic's air manipulation that's VERY natural to him

4: Gems (The one you buy from the shop) from 06 to turn him small so Alex can't see him and ability to psuedo fly away from him and use Magic Hands to seal him away

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Can I just debunk that silly argument that Sonic wouldn't use hax against a human-looking charater?

 

[DeathNoodles]

Just something I've noticed about game characters.

We don't see these guys use their more potent hax in character cause game mechanics. So stop saying dumb stuff like "he doesn't use them in character DURR". It's like they forgot they playing a video game. Why you think they can't use Chaos Control with Shadow in other games besides his own? Plus think about it: If the games let you use Sonic's most powerful haxxes all the time, especially in final bosses, the game would end pretty quickly. Hence why the game limits you with Homing attacks and spin dashes. The only times he used close combat is on enemies he perceives to be weaker than him. If there's a threat, he'll go all out to stop it. Even using techniques you thought he won't use. And if some person doesn't look like a threat, that's where his quills come into play. They help him sense an incoming threat. Like some sort of spider sense (Or his sneezes). I mean why you think his battle with Emerl in Sonic Battle only lasted about 30 seconds?

He can't just start off just going close up to someone and punch them without no strategy involved. He has analytic prediction and accelerated development. Sonic should have some form of intelligent fighting strategy. I mean what if I tell you Sonic straight up analyze his foes to see which part of the body he can harm the most/touch if he's going against someone who's intangible or made up of water? Also, can we please stop saying "[Insert Video Game character here] starts off with [Insert assuming ability/technique they have]" like you personally know them? Just like Sonic, they're game characters. They're limited in the actions they can do in one game than the other. But for Alex's case, he seems to have more visual evidence to what he starts off with. Unlike characters like Sonic, Rex, Mega Man, Dante, Shulk, Joker, etc.

For example: I heard back then people say Mega Man starts off with pellets rather than his other abilities. That's ******* stupid. Just because he has no other powers to wield before than, doesn't mean he won't use them for the other bosses. Also, he should regain the other powers he gets from other robots from past games. The reason he can't use them in other games is quite simply: Capcom doesn't want an easy Mega Man. Plus they probably want you to try out the other abilities they give you for Mega Man. Ignore what they said about Archie Mega Man. That's on Archie's side of the Mega Man canon. Same for the weapon gauge. Story wise, it wouldn't make sense for Mega Man to get a gauge showing how much weapon energy he has. If so, he'll get creamed by everyone of Wily's robots.

Game mechanics and gameplay doesn't say anything about a video game character's personality or mindset. I can make a noble hero character kill a bunch of defenceless innocents in the game, so would that mean that the said noble hero character actually likes to kill a bunch of defenceless innocents in their lore? No, it doesn't.

And none of what you said says anything about Sonic using said hax abilities against human or human-looking targets. What, does that mean Sonic would immediately use his hax of transmuting that human into something else or killing them right away? You'll need to provide me evidence of such before we can even get anywhere about this.

 

[Godhand1999]

You are aware that isn't a scythe right? Thats ...Thats just his arm, he doesn't have that out in most cases hes a shapeshifter. So no he looks like a normal human until he shapeshifts, he does look a bit thuggish but outside that he's normal.
That could work how fast can he go from tangible to intangible? Can he do it before a majority of his body has been broken down at the molecular level? Can he do it as he experiences two seconds of unbearable agony as his body is rewritten at the gentic level? WIll he stay intangible forever? Cause if not he returns to tangibility and the virus finishes consuming him.

so your argument is that another black hedgehog warping time and space that sonic opened with hax against, after realizing he was doing it proves he'll open with hax against a sickly looking human that doesn't appear to be a threat?

The video you provided shows a very threatening opponent that sonics knows he'll struggle with. He lost to shadow before realizing shadow had a threatening power to him....So whats your point

Again sonic is willing to kill, he doesn't know alex is anything more then a weird guy in a hoodie...

Pen, the dude may look human but he literally can chop people's heads off. Alex Mercer is going to pull out his weaponry and he's going to go for the kill, Sonic is not going to stand there. Relax with this ad-nauseam.

Immediately, how is his body going to be broken down when Alex can not see or physically hurt him? Once Sonic is in this state, he can use Violet Void and it's over. That literally bypasses durability and Alex is getting atomized.

No. My argument is that Sonic did not know ANYTHING about Shadow, but still was able to deduce what kind of hax he was using at that time. Therefore if this "sickly human" who can chop off people's heads uses a deadly toxin, Sonic is going to see it and counteract it before it even reaches his body. Sonic has dealt with hax from unknown opponents before, unique abilities aren't foreign to him.

He never lost to Shadow, don't make up assumptions. If Alex even releases this gas, Sonic will know that it's threatening and react accordingly.

Yes, the "weird guy in a hoodie" is going to attack Sonic and try to kill him. Sonic is not going to stand there and wait for him, lol. That's silly

 

[Emissary_From_Hell]

And if you want to argue Sonic wouldn't know Alex's ability is deadly, Sonic knows from experiences such as Eggman gassing him in SA1 that he is potentially vulnerable to gas, if Alex used a gas based attack and Sonic saw himself surrounded by it, he'd rely on something like Time Break to escape the situation.

Edit: I meant to quote VioletVoid's most recent comment.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Can I just debunk that silly argument that Sonic wouldn't use hax against a human-looking charater?

That literally looks like a genie, or some kind of purple-skinned being. That doesn't even look like an ordinary human.

Mercer's appearance resembles an ordinary human's down to the T. So you're example falls apart there.

 

[Godhand1999]

Can I just debunk that silly argument that Sonic wouldn't use hax against a human-looking charater?

Excellent.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Pen, the dude may look human but he literally can chop people's heads off. Alex Mercer is going to pull out his weaponry and he's going to go for the kill, Sonic is not going to stand there. Relax with this ad-nauseam.

Immediately, how is his body going to be broken down when Alex can not see or physically hurt him? Once Sonic is in this state, he can use Violet Void and it's over. That literally bypasses durability and Alex is getting atomized.

No. My argument is that Sonic did not know ANYTHING about Shadow, but still was able to deduce what kind of hax he was using at that time. Therefore if this "sickly human" who can chop off people's heads uses a deadly toxin, Sonic is going to see it and counteract it before it even reaches his body. Sonic has dealt with hax from unknown opponents before, unique abilities aren't foreign to him.

He never lost to Shadow, don't make up assumptions. If Alex even releases this gas, Sonic will know that it's threatening and react accordingly.

Yes, the "weird guy in a hoodie" is going to attack Sonic and try to kill him. Sonic is not going to stand there and wait for him, lol. That's silly

Uh, Mercer has gassed without even using his shapeshifting or weapon abilities. He was able to do it in just his usual appearance. Sonic wouldn't even know that Mercer isn't an ordinary human until the gasses happen, and by that point it would be too late.

I've stated that I've misworded about Sonic losing to Shadow, but it doesn't change the fact that Shadow has escaped Sonic through teleportation, which Sonic only realises as such when it already happened.

Nobody says anything about Sonic waiting there, just that he wouldn't start off with his hax abilities against what looks like a hoodied human.